| Name: |
old blue chair
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 10:09:45 AM
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I want some suggestions, I'm thinking about taking on the chore of opening anchor bay - Suzi Q's back up.
the building is shot and is going to take major duckies to get it back in good condition. I guess my question is does everyone think it's worth it. I have never been in this business before but I know we need a place on this end that everyone can enjoy and get a good SIMPLE meal.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 10:13:01 AM
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How big is the Rent factor? Does the Marine shop/Storage/Store come with the lease?
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| Name: |
old blue chair
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 10:23:32 AM
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Cat, the rent isn't bad but the cost of getting it back in shape is going to be all on me. nothing else will be in the deal, they still manage the mariana and store
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| Name: |
Cabo
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 10:42:44 AM
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I wouldn't do it unless the Landlord helps with the buildout. In economic times like these and the risky nature of the restaurant business, the Landlord needs to have some skin in the deal. He can give you some TI $$$ and that will help.
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| Name: |
Pier Pressure
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 11:16:04 AM
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I suggest talking to Suzi to see what hurtles she faced... (Internal and External).
I think if you keep your overhead low you could do well enough to get business, but it will not be a windfall for you.
My suggestions,
1. During the heat of the day market to the "outdoor" setting, leave the A/C off keeping energy costs down. Burgers, hot dogs and anything you can deep fry.
2. Move the "Bar" outside at night for same reason. Keep the music low and don't try to create a nightclub setting. More like "Tiki bar".
3. Maybe have Saturday dinner specials and open entire restauant.
4. As you state, keep it simple. People pulling up in bikinis and shorts in boats will stop by more often if they feel welcome. Market to the "quick serve" crowd.
5. Service service service. If you come across as a full service restaurant people will have a level of expectation from your staff. If you market it as "fast food" people will understand they must service themselves. Have people get their own re-fills and make soda fountain available outside.
6. Offer lots of hot weather treats, such as what you would see from an ice cream truck...
7. Create a "To-go" menu which would be easy to eat on the water, without styrofoam, and give each customer a trash bag with their meal...
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the restaurant (if run correctly) will bring marina business. If they want you to pay for upgrades, I would shoot for a rent free contract for 2 years and then a renewable lease that would pay them a percentage of profits rather than a fixed rate after that. If there are no profits, either party could elect to terminate the deal. There are other ways to work it, but in this economy you need to limit your risk and get the owners on board with a plan that will help both of you.
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| Name: |
old blue chair
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 11:30:25 AM
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that was the same thing I suggested to her when she had it. If I could create that kind of place it would cut down a lot on the cost of redoing the place. Outdoor dinning on the deck. Best burgers on the lake with the coldest beer in town
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| Name: |
John C
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 12:00:04 PM
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PP has some great advice. My 2 cents:
A. Read these 2 Seth Godin books / books on tape: a.) Tribes and b.) Meatball Sundae
B. Review the link below for other suggestions on this forum to Suzi. I assume you already have as you posted on this way back then.
C. PPs suggestions are great. I would add on his numbers:
1. Amen on the AC. Great suggestion. Although I wonder if it would be too expensive to have screens etc. Or some way to improve the water view. Deep fryer - if it were me i would maybe not have a deep fryer, at least to begin with, what with the insurance expense and waste removal expense. If your burgers or whatever are good enough, you can serve chips in a bag. see Choo Choo's in Montgomery.
2. I agree. I would sacrifice the "bar scene" for the food. If you have a rowdy bar it will devolve as in the past. Don't go for the quick beer buck. Serve it, but keep it low key and those 250 cabins within a 1/2 mile will come there to eat. If they even perceive that the "ghosts of castaway past" are returning, they won't come. I don't know that I would even play music for the first year.
6. Brilliant suggestion. Let your desserts be ice cream et al that you pull from one of those reach in freezers like in a C store. A. they are cheaper than taking up space in your big cooler B. you can buy them for cheap C. the wholesalers will service you just in time inventory D. fast service factor E. in the off season you can unplug it. As long as they are good selections, not cheap, nasty, freezer burned stuff, it will do well.
My further suggestions:
1. I won't re-visit the "less is more" attitude again. except to say that if it were me I would worry less about, say, serving 30 different beers than I would trying to make sure that the 10 beers I sold were ICE COLD. Like so cold it hurts on the first sip. Be a stickler. Or maybe the same deal with cokes in a bottle. whatever. I can still remember places that I have a coke or whatever that is that cold. I come back.
2. Have Wi-Fi. You will have high speed internet anyway, why not spend another $29 (one time expense) and get a wireless router. It will promote the hang out and nibble crowd that I would think you would want to build long term patronage.
URL: Suggestions For Suzi
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| Name: |
Maverick
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 12:43:03 PM
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Tell the owner of the building GOOD LUCK in renting the building out in these economic times or anytime in the next 3 years or so.
If you are putting up the build out money I would recoup such in FREE rent as the landlord gets 100% of the benefit of the build out.
Since you are renting the building I would suggest - Renewal options, CPI escalation clause on the rent renewal option, then right of first refusal to buy the building if such is placed on the market.
I would also see if you could tie a percentage of the rent into a sale percentage factor. Low sales, lower rent (off months / start-up). Very seasonal business so you have to make your money in basically about a 5 month period.
If you have never been in the restaurant business, from what I hear from friends in the business it is a very demanding hands on business in terms of monitoring your food costs and alcohol costs based on 5 finger discounts and family/friend discounts.
Would assume the primary market are the family boaters so as you said apply the KISS theory and market to families during the day and for dinner.
Would also suggest talking to Don and his Wife as if I am not mistaken at one point and time there was a successful restaurant located there way back when.
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| Name: |
longtimer
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 12:45:22 PM
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There are some great suggestions in the previous answers. If I can add a few.....
Have a good variety of good, familiar food. You'll do best if you can bring in the entire family, and you won't be getting many families if there is nothing the kids have heard of, or if the parents have to spend $15 for chicken fingers. That doesn't mean you can't have some fancier food items on the menu, just make sure you aren't limited to them.
In keeping with that thought, having a good variety increases the likelihood of people eating there more often. If I can get two different meals at the same place on successive nights, I might eat there both nights. But if I have to have the same thing over and over, I'll get tired of the menu quickly. So will other people.
Hire good employees, not just at the front of the house but in the kitchen, too. Service, service, service is a good motto, but remember that the best server can't make up for a kitchen that is too slow and sends out bad food.
As for fixing up someone else's building... that's a tough one. If the restaurant works it will have been worth it, but if it doesn't you've spent a lot of money to fix up something that you don't own. I would try to work out some sort of agreement to make sure that doesn't happen. And whoever said it was right: a good restaurant will draw customers to the marina, so they do have a vested interest in the restaurant's success.
Good luck and keep us informed. If things go well I can promise you of at least one frequent customer, and I usually bring people with me.
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| Name: |
Pontoon
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| Subject: |
I suggest Being "Careful"
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Date:
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11/6/2008 3:29:22 PM
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dealing w/Peter
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| Name: |
Deckboat
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 3:31:58 PM
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That place could be great as it was a few years ago. Places on the water are all ways popular as long as they are clean and have decent service. The reason that we quit going to Suzy Q's was that the food was terrible...tried several times and it was awful each time. The marina in general seems to have run down quite a bit. I thought that the new owners were going to make major investments and make it really nice.
I wonder if it is for sale?
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
I suggest Being "Careful"
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Date:
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11/6/2008 3:34:35 PM
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HHHmmmmm. Forgot about Peter (Vinings Group)?
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
My $.02
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Date:
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11/6/2008 3:59:32 PM
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Alot depends on what you are going to spend to repair the facilities. Does it need equipment? The fact that you have never run a restaurant and the hours required to be hands on may be more than you really want to undertake. Check out insurance costs for liability if you will be serving beer to boaters. Who will be the chef? Running a successful NEW restaurant is not easy as the expectations of the customer is high. You will always be able to get them in the first time but the key is the return customer. There is a typcal learning curve but with only a 5 month window during the summer you have to really hit a homerun from the beginning.In this economy, I would think restaurant background would very helpful.
I wish you good luck whatever your decision is. One suggestion---don't put up any Obama signs up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| Name: |
ot
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 4:33:29 PM
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a couple of great salads as entrees!
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| Name: |
green,ed
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 4:53:38 PM
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And if everything mentioned here is accomplished you still only have 3 maybe 4 good months with only two good nights a week. I would think long and hard about this.
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| Name: |
George
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 5:45:30 PM
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My thoughts: ARE YOU CRAZY? I live in Montgomery and I've seen a lot of successful people think it would be fun to own a restaurant. Do you have a lot of cash? You can drop a $100K before you know it. The location is not as nice as it used to be with the wet slips. Hard to get in/out at night and it ruins the view. Employees: finding them, keeping them, bailing them out every Monday. I assume from previous posts that you are retired. My suggestion to you is..... Get a hobby!
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| Name: |
jethro
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 6:05:14 PM
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In the 90's the best way to make a million in the rest. business was to spend two million, in the times I would think maybe three million. these are not actually numbers but sort of my oversite based on being in foodservice sales.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
How about...
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Date:
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11/6/2008 6:38:26 PM
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we make it Cathouse Marine #2! Just like the original, with a byob bar inside and a grill out back.
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| Name: |
Maverick
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| Subject: |
How about...
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Date:
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11/6/2008 6:59:16 PM
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Sports Bar with Dancers, cold beer and chicken wings in the off season. (Ho Hangout)
I would bet the number of husbands saying they needed to go to the lake for weekend to clean up the yard or check on the house would go up dramatically.
Only issue would be when the Misses came down several months later the house and yard looked like heck then there would a lotsa splainin to do, unless she show the Credit Card bill first.
LOL
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| Name: |
Blue Creeker
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| Subject: |
Not no, but hell...
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Date:
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11/6/2008 8:49:02 PM
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...no.
Unless you're filthy rich and are bored.
And It's not the economy...which is just,fine, btw.
It's just that at the lake it's hard to make a living and you'll age yourself 10 years.
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| Name: |
mumbles278
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/6/2008 9:06:40 PM
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In Grayson Beach, FLA there is a place called Red Bar a true dive- But very good food. each night they only serve four things. Might be a different four things but just four. there is always a croud.
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| Name: |
AnchorbayDon
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| Subject: |
My Experience at Dockside
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Date:
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11/6/2008 11:33:01 PM
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Martha and I opened Dockside in 1999 after remodeling the old Boathouse Lounge. The first year was great as we had subs and pizza, beer & ice cream. We even made a little $$$ that year.
When Cecils at Kowaliga burned and there was no restaurant west of Stillwaters, we decided to go full service and hired a chef from the Brew Pub in Mgy. Revenues increased by $850k that year, but expenses grew by $930k. I think the food was great and we were completely overwhelmed. (Some nights, there was a 2 hr wait for a table!). Lots of nights, we didn't get the place cleaned up and locked up till 1-2 AM.
Our chef died and after that, we had trouble finding and keeping experienced restaurant people who did not do drugs or steal from us. The labor pool in the area was very weak. Business was always good from May 1 till Labor Day, but only on Friday, Saturday, & sometimes on Sunday. We always closed the marina/restaurant on Mondays, but Tues & Wed were weak year round. When the business went to nill from Oct thru Feb, keeping a skeleton crew always caused a loss to keep the doors open and liquor license intact. Many nights, we had fewer diners than we had staff.
We had live music, canned music, and guitarist from time to time, but they never paid for themselves. We always shut the music down by 9:30-10PM to be a good neighbor. We always tried to have a menu that included salads and kids food and it's a very tough business to run. Customers arrive by the boatload in large groups (12-20 people) and the kitchen space is inadequate to feed a lot of food at one time.
The building was a boat repair shop for decades and was expanded upon about 5 or 6 times, so the utilities are a patchwork and we always had trouble with roof leaks. More A/C is needed to support a full dining room.
Our P & L for Dockside never included any rent and from 1999 through 2005, we lost considerable $$$ for all of the work and problems we faced. I seriously doubt that having the restaurant open contributed very much to the marina or store sales. We always had visions of building a new restaurant on the point North of the marina store, but the lack of year round customers kept those plans on the shelf.
If I had a lot of time and wanted to reopen the place, I believe I would limit the menu and hours greatly and not try to be all things to all people. I would try to be what Chucks used to be (before late night music) Good, casual food, cold beer, and friendly faces will be well received.
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/7/2008 7:16:48 AM
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I have never been in this business before
You have just answered your own question. Why would you want to invest money into something you know nothing about ???
If you were to take this to the stock market and try to get someone to buy shares it would be a penny stock. You know what penny stocks are ?
Enjoy your life on the lake and find a hobby.
Cobra
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| Name: |
Pontoonfisher
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/7/2008 7:24:15 AM
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I would think that most of the posters would be smarter. There is simply not enough business on the Lake to open a restaurant. The hours will be long and you will be lucky to make money. Think about it. If you do further investiagtion check to see how many people tried to start something around the lake and it failed. Don't be fooled by these posters who come down to the lake a few times a month and simply want a place to eat. They think how cool it would be to have a place to eat right on the lake and how well it would do. If it will do so well then get some of these people to kick in some money as investors. I guarantee you that you will not get any takers. You will no have enough business to support it. The expenses will be food, rent, utilities, staff, insurance, etc. You will have to sell alot of burgers and chicken wings to at least break even.
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| Name: |
Smitty
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/7/2008 7:57:19 AM
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My only thought would be to maybe sell coffee and newspapers to the ealry morning crowd....build up a loyal base for eating/drinking later in the day.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/7/2008 9:19:40 AM
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A casual atmosphere, friendly staff, let us bring our dog (outside), and simple menu items like good burgers (maybe pizza) and we'll be there!!
We long for a more simple, relaxed atmosphere than what Sinclair's offers. In fact, I don't think we have ever eaten inside at the Castaway location.
Good luck!!
Nasreddin Hodja
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| Name: |
old blue chair
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| Subject: |
Need suggestions
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Date:
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11/7/2008 9:27:10 AM
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Gosh......If I can swing this and get everyone who has given great suggestions as customers I can't loose.
I know I haven't been in this type business before, other than a customer but I know what it would take for me to be a loyal customer. If I could get the owners to let me just clear the lot and start with my design I could save major bucks. I would like for us to have a combo of Niffers, Joe's Crab Shack, Florabama and Wattaburger.
Grassskirts, volleyball court...........fun, friendly, relaxing........no shoes, no shirt, no problem. (well maybe not no shirt)
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
How about...
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Date:
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11/7/2008 9:46:35 AM
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Funny, but true. That would happen.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
WRONG>>>
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Date:
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11/7/2008 9:50:48 AM
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No shoes, No shirt No problem (Rules apply to females only).........
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| Name: |
old blue chair
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| Subject: |
How about...
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Date:
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11/7/2008 9:52:59 AM
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ok mav lets not get the ladies boycotting before we open.................we can have cat his own grill by the volleyball court
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I'm doomed
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
How about...
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Date:
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11/7/2008 10:12:01 AM
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Yep, and make a big parking lot. All the Go-Fast Boat crew will have to come by land!
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| Name: |
old blue chair
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| Subject: |
How about...
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Date:
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11/7/2008 10:16:18 AM
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the parking or lack of is one big reason i want to level the place
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| Name: |
Crimson4Lif
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| Subject: |
Another Anchor Bay locals .02
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Date:
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11/7/2008 3:14:53 PM
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I have been saying for the last couple of years I just don't understand why someone doesn't take that place and look at Chuck's and turn it into a great place. Look how successful Chuck's place does and it is all outside and nothing but Pizza and Beer (now wine). Atmosphere is outside under the stars and entertainment is a must. Nothing wild and crazy but karoake or DJ music is always a hit. Nothing wrong with simple food such as pizza and burgers. Chuck's has proven that....even at $20 a pizza! As far as the upgrades go....having a inside place you have to have AC....I picked up a to go order this past summer and it was hot in there. I have no idea how those people sat in there. Someone (anchor Bay Don) mentioned the business went down after labor day....that probably is a true statement but I know that on several occasions on this very forum people complain about going to Sinclairs and the food being horrible and service terrible and this is outside of the summer months. Point being there are people to serve and if you serve them well and with good food they will come back...by boat or car. People order pizzas at Chucks and wait an hour for it.....so having large crowds show up and having them to wait is kinda expected by all. I hope you do turn it into a place that it once was because we used to have a blast in there. People are starving for entertainment on the lake and unfortunately if your gonna get it these days it's at Chucks. Chucks shuts down at 11 so not too late for the houses around it. It's not real hard to figure out what the majority wants and you can keep it simple to help with overhead. Sinclairs and the Cove go way overboard and if it wasn't for the other Sinclairs it would probably not be in business now. Be sensible and get a good deal on the upgrades and rent and you should do fine. Remember and never forget.....COLD BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Both Wrong...
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Date:
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11/7/2008 3:41:18 PM
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Both WRong
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Date:
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11/7/2008 3:42:43 PM
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Signs should say:
Men- NO SHIRT, NO SERVICE
Women: NO SHIRT, FREE DRINKS
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we can only dream
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| Name: |
old blue chair
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| Subject: |
Another Anchor Bay locals .02
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Date:
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11/7/2008 3:56:09 PM
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I agree!! I'm not planning on being in competition with Sinclairs. I want us all to have a palce to come kick back unwind relax and not leave hungry or thirsty. I want it to be a place where everyone just goes like second nature...ie...the rock.......you know if your on the lake your going to go by the rock my goal is if your on the lake or around the lake your going to come to this place just to see what were up to next
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| Name: |
AnchorbayDon
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| Subject: |
Another Anchor Bay locals .02
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Date:
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11/7/2008 5:01:03 PM
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Regarding Fall/Winter business. Most of the customers that come to Anchor Bay's restaurant come by boat and after Labor Day, with the water down, Anchor Bay has very limited docking (only at the gas pumps of the store). The harbor is really shallow and when the lake is much below the 486 level, the restaurant's docks are useless. By car, it's just not as convenient to get to as on Hwy 63 or 49, so its really out of the way for most everybody except those off of Castaway Island Road.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Just a couple of thoughts
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Date:
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11/7/2008 6:35:13 PM
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I don't know a darn thing about the restaurant business. But, I like to eat out.
Do you ever watch Kitchen Nightmares? It seems like Chef Gordon, who goes in and overhauls restaurants that are failing almost always recommends that you have a signature dish. Doesn't have to be complicated, but something that is uniquely yours. It can be as simple as a great burger or a special salad.
I would think the important thing is to keep it very simple in the beginning. It's more important to do a few things well than to do a bunch of things so/so. If you want to skip the deep fryer, why not try to come up with a good potato salad. Better than chips, but not as much work as FF.
One place we used to travel to had the customers cook their own food over a large grill in the center of the room. People loved it. I don't know what the insurance implications are.
Another restaurant used to have a Sunday buffet. The food was good, but simple. If you weren't there in the first 15 minutes after it opened, you had a long wait. BTW, their specialty was their pies.
I also think you need to think about advertising and a web presence. You want lake people, but you also want people from the surrounding community.
Good luck whatever you decide.
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The Landloard was suppose to level everything and start from scratch, but they didn't, thats why Anchor Bay sits like it sits now. All that I know that they have done is just patch up the wet slips with come alongs after half the wet slips broke loose and damaged alot of boats
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| Name: |
Pontoon
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| Subject: |
AnchorBay and Lies YEP
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Date:
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11/13/2008 4:00:17 PM
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since the beginning
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