Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Final thoughts on the election
Date:	11/6/2016 10:41:38 AM

With only a day or so left to go, it’s down to the wire for Hillary & Trump… and I have to say I am amazed that Trump’s appeal to such a large segment of the American people is still intact.   It has been a masterful example of marketing a TV show candidate with no credentials or experience, but who has persuaded a huge number of people to vote for him simply because he is brash, outrageous, white …and blindly opposed to everything Barak Obama has done in his 8 years in office. 

Because of his success, and his techniques for reaching that success, we are seeing things about ourselves that should be giving us pause… making us think about what we have become and where we are going.   But Trump’s campaign is not based on thinking deeply about issues or meaning, it’s about following the Pied Piper wherever he leads …. And thinking about it later.   

His supporters are genuinely worried about ‘the direction of the country’ and the disintegration of healthy  values in politics… but their solution is to support a candidate who has no demonstrated sense of morality or attention to ethical behavior.   He routinely embodies the harsh & inflammatory rhetoric that is sure to divide us further.    

It is a great irony that so many American voters think the electorate has been ‘dumbed down’  by politicians  who manipulate us shamelessly…and think that the antidote to this is electing a man whose entire life has been about living a life of excess & selfish self-promotion.   He doesn’t even like to read.

And while it takes 5 years of experience to land the job of assistant manager at Chili’s , some people think an inexperienced Donald Trump can master the reins of global power in the Oval Office overnight.

In the end, it seems to matter very little to his supporters what he really believes, what he has said, how many times he has bluntly denied statements he made...  He has a causal relationship with the Truth, but to his supporters who are fed up with lying politicians… this is not enough to disqualify him.   They don’t see that what they dislike in politicians is exactly what Trump embodies.

Trump is not only capitalizing on people’s hatred and fear, he has been encouraging it.  His candidacy has made White Nationalism, KKK-style racism, hatred of immigrants, and religious intolerance into viable and acceptable political movements in this country.  I, for one, think that this is a really bad idea.   At the end of the day, either he will have won the election and legitimized all these offensive political forces… or he will lose the election and carry on with a political movement energized by the worst and most dangerous of social ideas.  

For that reason, people like me see this election as a pivot point in American politics to the same degree that Trump supporters do.  But for us the choice is between hatred & fear or choosing a political path that seeks to treat people fairly & humanely in this country.   After all, it is a country whose original principles had to do with secular tolerance, a balance of interests between the powerful & the people, an appreciation for education over ignorance, of genuine leadership experience more than boastful over-confidence, of concern for people rather than self-glorifying postures.   Trump cares little about what happens to anyone else but Trump.  He has no track record to suggest otherwise.

To support him, you have to ignore all that.

To me, Trump has failed the most simple & basic of all standards in life.   The Living Room Test.  

The Living Room Test says that is someone’s behavior is not acceptable in your home, then they would not be deserving of your vote.  If a visitor in my home insulted my other guests with vile comments about their character, racial heritage, or physical disabilities, I would make them leave.   If a visitor was loudly offending everyone in the room with rude & self-assured pronouncements that were obviously lies, I would treat them the same way I would if one of my guests had too much to drink.   If a visitor announced his conviction that he could grab women in my home “by the pussy”, he would be shown the door quickly.  It’s a simple standard we use every day, but somehow we gave Donald a pass to do just these things….and more.

I don’t think I am alone in the use of the Living Room Test.  I was raised in the South where there was an expectation that people would have some sense of honor & mutual respect for each other… while braggarts & fluffy Charlatans were dismissed as idiots….

Not elected President.

One way or the other, this will all be over soon.   I think the campaign has gone on too long, allowing us to find our way down deep into this muck… completely diminishing  thoughtful consideration of candidates & policies in favor of news cycles dominated by unsubstantiated hints of scandals & outrage.  It is certainly not a good sign for our country when public schools that have been used as polling places have to tell their students to stay home on Election Day so to avoid the potential risks of conflicts breaking out between adults voting at the polls.  

Reading stories about those scattered school closures around the country should be the most disturbing of all the news stories we have ever read.  And electing Donald Trump would validate the worst traits in us as a nation.

I may not be crazy about Hillary Clinton.   But I’m not crazy. 

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	Final thoughts on the election
Date:	11/6/2016 11:14:14 AM

With very few exceptions in your post, you could easily change "he" to "she", then add skilled at deception, ....acts above the law.....3 new wars...nuclear Iran.....complete destabilization of the Middle East....active contributor to events leading us to the brink of WWIII...personal enrichment at the expense of the public she serves....but, I understand. The people who disagree with supporting someone demonstrating these extensive "accomplishments" are clearly racist bigots, incapable of logical thought, who would never vote for a woman. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Final thoughts on the election
Date:	11/6/2016 12:32:37 PM

I hope Hillary loses.  She has been condesending and smug the entire campaign.  Either way, this is the final chance for either candidate.  I have no problem with a female President, but it can't be just any female, and it certainly shouldn't be Hillary.  Whatever is said about Trump is equally true about Hillary. 

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey There Barneget
Date:	11/6/2016 12:56:32 PM

Hey guy, nice to see your name again. Whilre we may not agree on politics, it is always nice to see you posting. Hope all is well with you and your family. We took a trip to Philly this summer....it sure has changed downtown with the new buildings. Remember the old days wth no building taller than Penn's hat on city hall?

Can't wait until Wednesday...win or lose. Cheers.......

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	Hey There Barneget
Date:	11/6/2016 1:21:12 PM

Hey GF, I kind of drifted away from the forum. The smarmy smug was as sickening as the name calling bs and it become something less than interesting or enlightening or fun. Tuesday is going to be interesting for sure. Kind of reminds of that saying, something about picking up a turd by the clean end. Spent a little time in the City of Brotherly Love last fall. Was there for a HS reunion. Cant believe how old my classmates look. Must be the water, or maybe the weather. Thanks for the shoutout. Keep living right regardless of Tuesdays results. 

Name:	RHH -	Reply
Subject:	Final thoughts on the election
Date:	11/6/2016 1:42:57 PM

Copper's well written thoughts are worth reading for all the regulars that post on this forum. Clinton's shortcomings pale in comparison to the dangers that a Trump Presidency would open us up to. One certainly does not have to a a "liberal" to see these dangers. This is not an Auburn v Alabama sports competition. I believe that the best thing that could happen to the Republican Party would be to loose control of the Senate, face the reality as to what kind of voices have usurped their party, and reform themselves into a true conservative entity.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	My, my, COPPER-IDIOT
Date:	11/6/2016 4:09:09 PM

Well, I see you took a couple of legal pads with you when you hid out under the bed with ARCHI-KRAP.  How many votes for THE HILDA BIT..H have you won with your anti-TRUMP diatribes?  I'd say none!  If you put half the effort into evaluating the mistake of supporting HILDA THE CRIMINAL you would cast a much wiser vote for TRUMP!!  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Final thoughts on the election
Date:	11/6/2016 4:31:44 PM

I wonder how much thought you have given to what a Clinton presidency will mean to this country.  Here is a woman that has had legal and ethical problem throughout her career - not just when she was in DC.  As a public official, she did nothing noteworthy in the Senate (3 bills and one had to do with renaming  a post office), and as Secretary of State, she didn't do much beyond give the Russians right to the uranium, and this Iranian treaty that no one seems to know what it actually did.  Anything that is said about Trump could also be applied to her.  She wants to create more of nanny state than we already have.  Having spent 32 years in the federal government, the answer is not more government but more effective and efficient government.  She also wants to turn the legal interpretation on its ear, because although she says she wants "common sense" gun control, her real goal is to abolish guns.  With regards to her attitude towards Russia, she is futher alienating us from them, rather than fnding common ground?  And what did she do wth North Korea?  try to open talks? no.

The only thing I agree with Cooperline about is that as a nation, we need to think about why we ended up with these candidates.  Have we allowed our election cycle to become a hostile environment and so onerous that good people no longer want to run?  And what about that?  What does it say about our political processes.  Frankly, that we have both Clinton and Trump running for election is a direct result of 8 years of Obama.  Obama has been a very weak leader - oh, he may be a nice man and low key and perhaps moderate, but that is not what you need in a President.  Obama has been repeatedly insulted by heads of state, and he turns the other check.  That may be very impressive to some, but in the real international world, it shows you how little respect for for him and this country.  And he proved that his "line in the sand" meant nothing. If you are going to lead, then you have to lead from a position of strength.

Name:	RHH -	Reply
Subject:	My, my, COPPER-IDIOT
Date:	11/6/2016 4:33:49 PM

Of course wix comes out of his cave to prove the following:

Hilda B..ch-    Sexist

Obamy- racist

demokrap- lack of intelligence 

Copper idiot- lack of vocabulary and lack of intelligence 

Archecrap-ditto

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Ms. Hound
Date:	11/6/2016 4:59:28 PM

"she says she wants "common sense" gun control, her real goal is to abolish guns." Do you have anything to back this up other than you read it on the internet so it must be true?

I own a gun and support Hillary.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Goof-krap
Date:	11/6/2016 5:32:52 PM

Place your post in the proper place , please!

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks....IDIOT
Date:	11/6/2016 5:42:52 PM

Thanks for recognizing my talents.  Now, back in your cell....

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	My, my, COPPER-IDIOT
Date:	11/6/2016 5:48:42 PM

Wix is right on. If Hillary is elected President our country is in for a minimum of four years of government that will prove to be worse than I think the human mind can perceive. Call me what you wish and at the end of four years let's compare our country today to what it is four years from now. The people of America have been "brainwashed" to the point that they will not even recognize our downfall until it may be too late. If thirty years of the Clinton's has not been enough to show that Hillary cannot fulfill the ''promises" she has made for the next four years then heaven heip us. She will be a prime example of the "true" politician who promises the world to get elected and then does "nothing" for those she has led astray.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  How is it that she claims she and Bill were broke when they left the White House, but they are now millionaires many times over. Does no one wonder where Chelsea got the money to buy a $10 million dollar house in New York? If you lie, cheat, steal and betray the "trust" placed in you by the people, you, too, could buy your daughter a $10 million dollar home while those you cheated are on food stamps and in poverty.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Final thoughts on the election
Date:	11/6/2016 6:08:54 PM

yes, I agree completely.  I hope that the Republican Party comes out of this in a good way... as a Social Democrat, I firmly believe the checks and balance of a two party system is best for us...   I recognize Trump is an abberation (sp?)for the GOP Party historically, but they have to wrestle with how they got themselves into this fix in the first place and reshape into a party that is better than Trump.   He is exactly what most Republicans don't want to be. 

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Final thoughts on the election
Date:	11/6/2016 9:24:13 PM

I might feel a little better if the intent of the Constitution was truly working, but there is nothing "balanced" about the checks and balances. When the DOJ and the FBI are being directed by the President, the "balance" part of the equation does not exist. If Comey's finding in July in favor of Clinton was not evidence enough, he now comes forward again and provides even more reason to show that Obama is driving the boat. Things are tilted bad enough now, but think how unbalanced "fairness" will become if she is elected President and makes her appointments to the Supreme Court. When the "people" are no longer protected by the "guarantees" inherent within the Constitution, where will they turn? Hillary is the "epitome" of what the people have come to abhor about the current state of our so called democratic government.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Ms. Hound
Date:	11/6/2016 9:37:43 PM

I believe she said this around the time of the school killings in CT.  Mothers against Guns supports her.  This is the group that puts pressure on retail companies to not allow guns in their facilities.   It has long been known that the real agenda of the Democrats is to abolish guns. They realize that they can't get it in one bite, so there is a strategy to eat the elephant one bite at a time, hoping not to totally tick off the NRA and create a big rise up.  If Hillary wins, you will see a huge spike in gun and ammo buying. 

The joke is really on them.  If they enforced the laws on the books, there wouldn't be a big problem.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Ms. Hound
Date:	11/6/2016 9:54:39 PM

I may not wait until Tuesday to buy a case of ammo for every gun type I own.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Ms. Hound
Date:	11/7/2016 9:15:41 AM

You may recall that right after the school shooting in Conneticut, the price of guns soared and ammo stocks were depleted. That was the time when ARs soared in price too, speculating that they were about to be banned.   I suspect this is going to happen if Hilary is elected tomorrow.  Perhaps we will see more open carry too.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Fine example of an oxymoron
Date:	11/7/2016 10:26:57 AM

Oxymoron =seemingly self  contradictory statement. That definition is for you Archie since you have shown an ignorance of English several time. A socialist believes in total government control. Democrat is a form of the word democracy which means citizens have a say. Which translates to mob rule which why the framers gave a representative republic, "if we could hold it". But you dims never let facts, logic and reason enter the conversation on their life for that matter.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Ms. Hound
Date:	11/7/2016 10:56:03 AM (updated 11/7/2016 10:58:14 AM)

I have my ammo order ready with CheaperThanDirt and will "pull the trigger" if she wins.  A mix of .223, .45, .38, .25, and 12 gauge 00 buckshot.  

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Hodja
Date:	11/7/2016 1:57:46 PM

Hodja... you are over-reacting.   Preparing for another civil war or just a revolution?   Is the plan to march on Montgomery and take over the State Capital first, or would it be better to lay siege on Fort Benning & demand the troops surrender their arms to the citizen's militia?   

Look around.   You may be caught up in a moment of political hysteria where common sense has been tossed out the window.   Trump wants his followers to think the world is going to end.   Jim Jones said the same thing in Guyanna just before he passed out the Koolaid.

Think your guy may be (yet again) stretching the truth a bit to manipulate his supporters?

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hodja
Date:	11/7/2016 3:33:07 PM

None of the above.  If Hillary wins there will be a run on guns and ammo and I want to beat the rush.  Otherwise I may not have enough to use at the range to maintain proficiency.  None, maybe except the buckshot, are anything more than FMJ plinking rounds.  I have plenty self defense rounds.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hodja
Date:	11/7/2016 4:08:14 PM

I was just about to say the same thing.... LOL. Why is it that liberals always think that 2nd Amenders are planning for the revolution? 

I guess that they are totally unaware that gun people worry about soaring prices and availability.  I don't think it will be because of the election, but I still think it is possible that we will see an increase in violence as the economy gets worse. LOL, they even had someone discharging a weapon in the Roses in Alex city over the weekend, after someone using peopper spray.  Not even the inner city!!  And we can't disregard the gangs that come out to the lake to rob empty houses. 

My husband disagrees with me about the more open carry, because he believes that the vast majority of gun owners are just normal sane people. 

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Final thoughts on the election
Date:	11/7/2016 5:13:13 PM

yes, I agree completely.  I hope that the Republican Party comes out of this in a good way... as a Social Democrat, I firmly believe the checks and balance of a two party system is best for us...   I recognize Trump is an abberation (sp?)for the GOP Party historically, but they have to wrestle with how they got themselves into this fix in the first place and reshape into a party that is better than Trump.   He is exactly what most Republicans don't want to be. 

This right here is one of the things I always love.  as party A I think that Party B is just wrong and should listen to Party A on how to fix themselves.

While Trump pretty much is about as low life of a human as possible that is what it is, and I think most republicans do recognise that ... but.

Hillary is exactly what most Democrats want to be.  Even before Trump was the primary winner when there were others on the primary ballot.  We got lovely views from Archie and GF in terms of BILLLAARYRYY!!!!!, over Sanders.  In a "fair" fight Hillary had to rig a primary to make sure she was able to win the primary over a self proclaimed socialist.  As a Social Democrat, you must be really proud of your canidate, to win by hook or by crook and any means necessary.

Several members of the news media passed on questions to her before the debates at CNN, as well as sent questions to be included for Trump in interviews.  Members of the DNC were able to not only approve news articles but also able to "suppress key information" at the New York Times.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/06/wikileaks-emails-cnn-asked-dnc-for-questions-for-interviews-with-trump-cruz/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/03/leaked-dnc-emails-confirm-anti-sanders-conspiracy/

While Trump is an abberation, Hillary is the poster child for the democrat party and is "owed this".  

Now you posted a lovely image of I may be crazy, but not Trump crazy, the difference is I will vote for Trump and go outside and vomit. You, Archie and GF will vote for Hillary and smile.

Now I have lots of opinions as to how the Democrat party should fix themselves.  Pro 2nd is a good start,  Pick an age where life begins is a good runner up.  Pick a canidate who does not have to cheat to win, find a canidate with some of those good southern values you talked about in another post, not a transplant from Chicago who does funny voices depending on who she is talking to.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Hodja
Date:	11/7/2016 7:32:57 PM

If Trump wins, there will be more than just ammo & gun prices fluctuating.   I'm watching the S&P500.   Fasten your seat belts Ladies & Gentlemen, I don't think it will be pretty.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hodja
Date:	11/7/2016 7:59:29 PM

Nice little diversion when your wild claims of revolution and Trump-adoring fanatics is totally debunked by a sound and rational response.  We are not anywhere close to a "revolution", although I don't rule out such an eventuality if things get bad enough.  To repeat I did NOT say a revolution is coming, just that it might happen under some pretty severe circumstances.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hodja
Date:	11/7/2016 10:19:40 PM

Only if you need to pull your money out right then or if you panic.  The market may go crazy but that is often a good time to pick up some deals on stocks.