Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/21/2015 10:07:51 AM

Because of completetly understandable fear this nation is seriously on the brink of trashing some of the things that make us exceptional.

In 2002 Geroge W Bush proposed outlawing the sale of guns to anyone on the terrorist no fly watch list as part of the Patriot Act.  Under tremendous pressure from the NRA with their "foot in the door" rationale, congress said no and, as of the moment, is continuing to deny support of such a restriction.  Yesterday speaker Ryan refused to say whether he was in favor of such a restriction even in the face of Paris and the frenzy to tighten security even further than authorized by the original Patriot Act not to mention the recently watered-down extension.

If we are going to trash our constitution should the beloved 2d amendment, as interpreted by the NRA, be the only one exempt from tinkering?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	archidiot....
Date:	11/21/2015 2:08:58 PM

I would definitely support the removal of firearms from such anarchist as o-BAMA supporters and dimokraps in general.....these people fall in the same category as the mentally disturbed.  Ya'll probably shouldn't be allowed to vote either.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/21/2015 2:14:36 PM

I honestly don't think not legally selling guns to people on the no-fly list will make a difference either way.  There are plenty of guns on the black market from other countries that would fill any gap left by passing this law.  I believe in Paris, the guns used were Karishnakoffs (sp?) and not of U.S. origin.  There is no reason to add "they are going to take my guns" paranoia to the landscape right now.  Last time that took off, all it did was raise the price of guns and make ammo hard to come by.  I don't blame Paul Ryan for not wanting to touch that one.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/21/2015 3:02:07 PM

I don't agree with you on a lot of things, but you are right on on this one.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/21/2015 5:15:43 PM (updated 11/21/2015 5:17:04 PM)

Sorry hound, but it doesn't make sence to me that the same politicians who are climbing all over each other to be first in line to put the brakes on refugees, the vast majority of which are innocent suffering human beings, entering the country quickly turn into mice when given the chance to stop the sale of guns to people already here and questionable enough to be on the no fly list!! To be sure, a huge chunk of people on the no fly list are also innocent human beings, but a dang site bigger chunk of them are dangerous than are the folks fleeing war in the Middle East!  I agree that pretty much anybody in this country who wants a gun can get one illegally, a fact which in it self should give us pause, but the hypocrisy that is part of the regular order of politics in America today along with the power of big money special interest groups on all sides is disheartening to say the least.

PS:  Thank you B'eye

Name:	redbud -	Reply
Subject:	if we are going to trash the Constitution ...
Date:	11/21/2015 7:21:05 PM

I belive it is our duty as Citizens of this country to see that the Constitution is not trashed . The right to keep and bear arms is part of the Bill of Rights . So is the freedom to follow any religion or no religion as we choose , freedom from unreasonable search and seizure ,the right to due process of law before our property is taken from us , freedom of speech and press , and all the rest of it . The failure to recognize and protect any one part jeopordizes all parts .

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/21/2015 7:38:24 PM

Sorry architect, I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion that the vast majority are suffering human beings.  Countries like Germany and France are finding out that the vast majority are young men who are looking for a free ride from countries that are taking them in.  If you read some of the foreign press, you might get a different perspective of who the vast majority are.  No, I'm not saying they are all terrorists, but what happens when they get here and they get radicalized?  You know that one of the biggest sources of radicalized Muslims from the U.S. are in Upper Mid-West states, like Minnosota, that has a huge Muslim population.  And do you know why they went there to start with - because of the ultra-liberal welfare system.

I would prefer to suspend the program until such time that we can get a better handle on the program.  Just letting them off into the U.S., unaccounted for, doesn't seem that smart to me.  Obama may feel that they are "widows and orphans" but if you look at the other countries into which they are going, the vast majority of them are young men, and looking for a handout.  And who are most likely to get radicalized?  Young men. Why don't they stay in their country and fight ISIS or fight Assad?   Because they believe it is a better deal for them to go to European countries or the U.S. and take advantage of their guilt.  We can't make up for what we did to the Jews and other immigrants we refused to take during WWII, by taking in these people now. 

My heart gets tied up with this, because as a human being, one wants to reach out and help someone who is needlessly suffering.  But, having worked for DoD all those years reading intelligence reports and seeing the various ways we lose track of foreigner students and seeing the way they target us, I'm a little more cynical.  Beside the question of where is the money for all this going to come from?  Anymore, when I hear some great thing we are doing for someone else, I wonder where the money is coming from.  There was a good interview with Ash Carter, the Secretary of Defense, this week.  Two things he talked about as huge problems for Defense are sequestration (because the Army's budget was severely cut) and the instabilty of the budget as it relates to warfighting and acquisition.  I'm one of those people who think charity begins at home. 

But, you changed your original question and to that I stand on my answer. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	if we are going to trash the Constitution ...
Date:	11/21/2015 7:39:26 PM

Redbud, I think you have your documents confused. 

Name:	redbud -	Reply
Subject:	tallulahhound
Date:	11/21/2015 7:54:05 PM (updated 11/21/2015 7:59:43 PM)

I am pretty sure the Bill of Rights are the first 10 ammendments of the Constitution of the United States Of America . Do you think that is not correct ? Please help me understand your point here .

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/21/2015 9:57:23 PM

Hound, I too think perhaps we need "pause" the refugee acceptance until we have as fool proof vetting as possible...That being said, doesn't it make sense to also "pause" the sale of firearms to those on the no fly list until we have as fool proof assurance as possible that they actually should not be on the no fly list? 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	tallulahhound
Date:	11/22/2015 8:53:56 AM

Sorry, I misspoke.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/22/2015 4:07:01 PM

I don't have a problem with not selling weapons to those on the no-fly list; I just don't think it will make an appreciable difference.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/23/2015 8:06:32 AM (updated 11/23/2015 8:51:21 AM)

Hound, you are probably right that cutting off the sale of guns to those on the no fly watch list will not make any difference, but if it saved one American life then we should do it.  That ''one life saved'' seems to be an argument of those wanting to shut the door to refugees...the exasperating part is that the ''keep selling guns to no fly listers'' and the ''shut down the refugees'' crowd is for the most part one in the same...that defies logic!  Of course logic has not played any noticeable part in our political thought in years and as the base of the GOP move further to the right while the Democrats shift further left, we can not expect any change for the forseeable future since the ''base'' of our political parties, rather than the people's concensus, now calls all the shots.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/23/2015 11:41:49 AM

Without going back and fact checking, I think the polls show that the candidates on the GOP ticket are much more in line with the concerns of the people than the Democrats.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/23/2015 11:50:22 AM

New polls seem to bear you out.  Trump, with his tough talk about ISIS and Immigration and Muslims has a solid 30%  in the new polls.  His words must be resonating with Americans, who seem to believe that a new attack on the U.S. is expected.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/23/2015 11:50:23 AM

New polls seem to bear you out.  Trump, with his tough talk about ISIS and Immigration and Muslims has a solid 30%  in the new polls.  His words must be resonating with Americans, who seem to believe that a new attack on the U.S. is expected.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Will we put our money where our mouth is?
Date:	11/23/2015 3:01:11 PM

Hound, I think the polls you refer to are only of those likely to vote in the GOP primary. Polls of the general electorate show Trump to be one of the weaker contenders in the field. 

Buteye, it depends on what issue you are talking about as to which party is more in keeping with the thinking of the American voters.  On tax policy, climate change, education, abortion, gay rights and social issues in general the Democrats come out on top. On spending, debt, government regulations , energy and some foreign policy issues the GOP gets the nod.  The crazy thing is that often the same people are in favor of 2 issues or sides that are diametrically opposite to each other...''I'm in support of the Democrats when it comes to climate change but prefer the Republicans on energy policies."  Just one more example of how logic plays no role in our politics today.  Some wise man once said "Nobody has ever gone broke betting on the stupidity of the American voters."