Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Recent Discussions of Covid rates
Date:	4/29/2021 3:13:33 PM

.4 .2 - I am not concerned if MM, GFY, CDC is dead 100% accurate on the numbers - but lets assume that based on some information at https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality that these countries measured things in a similar manner.

regardless of arguing if the number is accurate, higher, lower etc.

Why the hell is our southern border wide open?

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Recent Discussions of Covid rates
Date:	4/29/2021 3:32:38 PM (updated 4/29/2021 3:54:49 PM)

Thanks for your post showing John Hopkins with the same number of 1.8% of deaths to known cases that I posted. It is identical to CDC. 10 times Martini's of .2%.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Recent Discussions of Covid rates
Date:	4/29/2021 3:39:25 PM (updated 4/29/2021 4:24:34 PM)

Yes it agrees with CDC, and probably not suprisingly as they are probably looking at the same data, which is also the information published to google.  I think MM statements has more to do with the fact that the numbers are not accuate -from this post

http://www.lakesonline.com/Forum/show.asp?id=220469&fid=D2493503-C07E-408B-A0FF-3F590C1FBF78&SiteID=AL004

CDC says it is impossible to get accurate numbers for many of the same reasons that MM has explained to you more then once.

The same data where the guy who got shot and bled out was a covid death, and the unreported people who were asympomatic, lying via statistics is easy, you do it often so you should understand how it works easily.  

The same with counting + cases that were reported from fruits(you may qualify in this catagory), sheets of paper and goats.

I notice you took it as a win without arguing my origional point about why are we allowing so many to come across the southern border without any testing and then the government is busing/flying/releasing them all over the US - Glad you agree that Biden and the VP that he put in charge of the border are idiots and based on your data they are intentionally killing people by allowing the border CRISIS.

If you want argue safety - please take a look at any of the google images of the children wrapped in silver blankets like baked potatos at a all you can eat buffet,  wedged into the "cages" that Obama and Biden built.  

Just in case you can not google any of those I am going to attach a few for you.

Do you need a ruler or can you figure out if that is 3' or 6' social distancing in that cage?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Recent Discussions of Covid rates
Date:	4/29/2021 5:28:06 PM (updated 4/29/2021 5:29:50 PM)

The reason Goofy's number is all wrong is he is claiming that 1.8% of the people that have gotten the virus have died.  That is blatantly false and patently absurd.  The CDC estimate is probably much closer to the truth but for all the reasons you and I have presented even that number for the mortality rate is too high. 

I just can't stomach people drawing false conclusions from the wrong data and then challenging me over and over again.  I think he actually enjoys being humiliated for some very odd and disconcerting reason.  I try very hard to be accurate and even loathe when I mistype a number like I did in the other post (0.02 vs 0.2).  But for Goofy, he seems to enjoy being wrong and then refusing to admit it, doubling down on stupid and so on.  I just hope others read to the end of the thread so they can see how utterly wrong he was.  And the ironic part is what shut him up was the USA Today committing a random act of journalism.  I guess I can see his point, if even a leftist rag admits the truth that is inconvenient even he has to give up.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Recent Discussions of Covid rates
Date:	4/29/2021 5:40:08 PM

My associate here in the office when he got Covid back in late december had to have a negative covid test before he was allowed back in the office.

He went to the hospital(got a +test) on about day 2 due to dehydration and got fluids then returned home.  Returned to the hospital around day 8 for more fluids(got another +test).

Once the fever and most of the symptoms were gone he went to get retested to return to work, which was still positive then went back for 3 or 4 more times till he got the negative result and was allowed to return.

I have often wondered did his "case" count as 1 case or 4-7 since several different places were testing him, and even returning to the same place several times over several days to get the negative, did they mark it as a "case" or a retest of an existing case? I dont know but I bet the 4 different places he went to and got + results did not make sure that it was the same "case".

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Recent Discussions of Covid rates
Date:	4/29/2021 6:01:52 PM (updated 4/29/2021 6:06:19 PM)

Martini...go to this site and explain what is wrong with numbers they update daily.....they are the CDC numbers. I didn't make them up. John Hopkins published the same numbers. 1.8% of those tested positive died.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Recent Discussions of Covid rates
Date:	4/29/2021 7:21:21 PM

I wasn't tested for covid.  I had covid.  I didn't die.  I strongly suspect there are many like me who had the antibody test after the infection had run its course and an awful lot who didn't follow through to even have an antibody test like I did.  The figures the CDC spouts reflect the cases they know about but don't include everyone who has/had covid and survived.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Glad you had no lasting ill effects Mr H, but...
Date:	4/30/2021 9:48:44 AM (updated 4/30/2021 10:04:09 AM)

how does the fact you had Covid but was never tested and that, thankfully, you did not die in anyway change the figures GF is posting?  Nobody, including CDC and Johns-Hopkins,  makes the claim that there are not cases and deaths not included in their numbers.  They are simple recording the information made available to them.  The bottom line is, through April 2021, 1.8% of the people who DID test positive DID die...period!!  I know CRD likes to throw around BS and medical jargon to obscure that fact and to make us forget that 14 months ago he insisted this was not a crisis as was the H1N1 virus a decade ago which killed 12,000 out of 61,000,000 infected and was mostly the fault of Joe Biden.  CRD and MM and Donald Trump and many other charlatans should be called out for politicizing a disease.  By doing so they made it worse and cost lives.  Please don't join them.

BTW: You are correct that there are many who have had Covid but do not show up in the numbers because they were never tested, but if they were diagnosed with Covid would one not assume they were ''tested'' in order to confirm the diagnosis?  In GA the antibody tests are reported along with the Covid tests and reported as ''likely positive'' and are, as I undertsand it, included in the CDC and John-Hopkins numbers.  A Covid antibody test is a test for Covid.  Also, regardless of what MM claims, there is a likelyhood that many deaths from Covid were not diagnosed as such.  If someone dies of natural causes in their home withot medical attention they may very well have died from Covid without anyone diagnosing the cause as such.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	It is simple
Date:	4/30/2021 7:22:08 PM

You are throwing around numbers that everyone knows are highly suspect as if they are true representations of fact.  If there are numbers of people like me who weren't reported....each one serves only to lessen the mortality rate. 

You remind me of a snake oil salesman and I am just throwing the bullchit flag on you.  This is my last post on this subject.  I have better things to do.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	It is simple
Date:	4/30/2021 8:45:52 PM

Correct, Hodja.  He even admitted no one has solid numbers.  What we do know is many positives were not tested and CDC themselves questioned all the deaths that had been attributed to the big C.  My memory not great but 60 percent comes to mind.  

The numbers are whatever the current political push needs them to be

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Mr H I did not say the numbers are accurate
Date:	4/30/2021 10:50:11 PM (updated 4/30/2021 11:06:51 PM)

and I did not say they are innaccurate.  I pointed out that CDC and John-Hopkins do not claim their numbers are rock solid but are based on the information available.  I did say that the math based on the stated numbers presented by GF was accurate.  Do you disagree?  Now, being called a snake oil salesman by someone who falls for the crap Donald Trump was and is peddling gave me today's best laugh.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	LnG do you think Covid is a crisis?
Date:	4/30/2021 11:02:41 PM (updated 4/30/2021 11:05:02 PM)

Do you think it is a real disease and more serious than the flu?  Do you think that ''We only have 15 cases and soon it will be close to zero'' was a more accurate presentation of the numbers than GF's.  Do you believe political expediency ''trumps'' medical science?  What do you think really killed Herman Cain?  Have you been vacinnated?

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Glad you had no lasting ill effects Mr H, but...
Date:	5/1/2021 7:55:23 AM (updated 5/1/2021 7:55:50 AM)

Still stuck on dumb I see.

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	This isn’t really murder. It’s voluntary suicide.
Date:	5/1/2021 10:27:12 AM

https://www.infowars.com/posts/former-pfizer-vp-blows-lid-on-vaccine-scheme-entirely-possible-this-will-be-used-for-massive-scale-depopulation/

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Recent Discussions of Covid rates
Date:	5/1/2021 3:48:15 PM

Goofy, I have to say you are so slow and dense it is sometimes hard to believe.  When did I accuse you of making up numbers?  Let me answer that....never.  What I accused you of was taking these numbers and implying that they represent the risk that the Wuhan virus represents.  You basically implied that very every 100 people that get the virus, close to two of them die from it.  That is false.  For every 100 people that get the virus, less than one die from it.  Or more easily understood, for every 1,000 people who get the virus somewhere between 2 and 4 people die.  For context, the National Cancer Institute pointed out that approximately 1.9M people will be diagnosed with cancer every year and over 600,000 will die from the disease.  Sounds pretty bad doesn't it?  In fact, the mortality rate for all types of cancer is around 160 per 100,000. 

See now how this really works?  That is why I disputed your numbers but had you posted the actual mortality rate from the virus we would have all concluded that it isn't all that bad.....so you post scientifically meaningless numbers to make a point and that is what I objected to.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	From Slow and Dense Goofy
Date:	5/1/2021 9:01:31 PM (updated 5/1/2021 9:09:00 PM)

As you stated, you do not like to be challenged when you know you are right. However, what you posted were estimates published by CDC based on early data of cases and deaths. The numbers I posted are CDC numbers as of April 2021. The references you posted are from March and April 2020.

I stand by my number of 1.8% as published by CDC as of end of April 2021.

 MartiniMan post 4/29/2021 Since You Love The Media So Much

According to NPR, the CDC has revised the estimate downward from its estimate in mid-April. Internal versions of the CDC scenario documents acquired by the Center for Public Integrity show that on April 14, the CDC had estimated a 0.33% fatality rate. That was up from a March 31 estimate of 0.16%.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	How long oh Lord how long
Date:	5/1/2021 9:49:25 PM (updated 5/1/2021 9:56:57 PM)

will we have to put up with the anti-science nonsense from the supposed scientifically trained likes of MM and CRD.  If these superior intellects want to nullify the numbers from CRD and Johns-Hopkins let them show the proof  (I know Trump Cultist think simply saying it is true such as ''we won in a landslide'' makes it true, but in the real world that dog won't hunt).  If they refuse to accept them that is their right, but don't say those of us who do are wrong unless you present the evidence to prove we are wrong.  According to the CDC and Johns-Hopkins since they started tracking the pandemic 14 months ago, the number of people who have died is 1.8% of the number of people who TESTED positive...PERIOD!  It ain't rocket science, its 4th grade math and one would think our MENSA candidates MM and CRD should be capable of grasping it!

BTW:  I'm still waiting for MM and/or CRD to give a reasonable explanation of why 15% more Americans died in 2020 than 2019 if it wasn't from Covid. 

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Waiting for your answers LnG....
Date:	5/2/2021 8:44:59 AM

For older people, folks with existing resp issues, and folks in NY and Mich nursing homes yes.

Numbers have changed a lot as the goal posts changed

Yes

I do not know Mr cain or his medical history

I dont announce my medical al history nor wear an I voted  sticker

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Waiting for your answers LnG....
Date:	5/2/2021 11:24:28 PM (updated 5/2/2021 11:29:44 PM)

So it is no problem that old people and residents of NY and MI die?

Yes the numbers have changed...they have gotten much worse until recently when they began to turn around as the policies of an administration that gave a damn about the problem came into office.

I don't know Herman's medical history but I do know he got COVID after attending a non-social and no-mask reqiuired Trump rally and he died from the virus! 

I don't give a rats fanny about whether you vote or get vaccinated but hope you and those who love you are not as stupid and selfish as the idiots who refuse the vaccine!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	From Slow and Dense Goofy
Date:	5/3/2021 9:05:05 AM

Goofy, exactly what are you standing by?  Are you saying that 1.8% of Americans that got the ChiCom virus died?  If that is your point then you are 100%, completely and utterly wrong for all the reasons already discussed.  That is not the mortality rate, that is not even close to the odds that you will die if you get the virus.  If you think that number means anything you are a fool....for all the reasons in the CDC document that provided their best estimate of the actual mortality rate.