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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Solder's Health Insurance
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Date:
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8/10/2009 10:09:15 AM
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Bad press, including major mockery of the plan by comedian Jon Stewart, led to President Obama abandoning his proposal to require veterans carry private health insurance to cover the estimated $540 million annual cost to the federal government of treatment for injuries to military personnel received during their tours on active duty.
The President admitted that he was puzzled by the magnitude of the opposition to his proposal. "Look, it's an all volunteer force," Obama complained. "Nobody made these guys go to war. They had to have known and accepted the risks. Now they whine about bearing the costs of their choice? It doesn't compute.." "I thought these were people who were proud to sacrifice for their country, "Obama continued.
"I wasn't asking for blood, just money. With the country facing the worst financial crisis in its history, I'd have thought that the patriotic thing to do would be to try to help reduce the nation's deficit. I guess I underestimated the selfishness of some of my fellow Americans."
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| Name: |
Lighthouse
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| Subject: |
Solder's Health Insurance
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Date:
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8/10/2009 11:06:32 AM
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IF he really said this, he needs to be impeached!!!!!!
Served my 21 and he better not try and take my health care away. Wonder if this will make it past the FBI filters?
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Solder's Health Insurance
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Date:
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8/10/2009 12:49:13 PM
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-From everything that I have read there is no public record of Obama saying the words reflected in the above post.
-However, back in the spring of this year, I clearly remember the administration, in written word, floating this idea of military people who have private insurance using that insurance to pay for their war injuries. There was a backlash from across the political and non-political spectrums against this proposal. hardly anyone,except for the most radical, beleived that the administration had been stupid enough to float this idea. However, it opened another insight into the mindset of these policy makers.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Snopes
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Date:
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8/10/2009 1:50:38 PM
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URL: Snopes
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Snopes
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Date:
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8/10/2009 2:22:34 PM
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I think that Snopes position is like that of former President Johnson - "part of my friends are for this and part for that and I'm with my friends".
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Snopes
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Date:
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8/10/2009 3:14:37 PM
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I didn't get that at all (maybe you are just joking and I'm missing the sarcasm?) I know a lot of people think snopes is liberal, but their take on this issue indicates to me that they try to be honest. They basically said that Obama never actually spoke the words attributed to him, but the administration did float the idea out and had it quickly kicked back in their face. Pretty fair and balanced to me.
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I agree with you. Not sure what Lotowner is complaining about. I don't know what else they could say. Obama himself didn't actually say it -- but it left the door open that a member of his staff may have floated it.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Gee I'm amazed
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Date:
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8/10/2009 6:50:44 PM
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Most of the people on this forum are so violently opposed to any gov't envolvement in healthcare insurance I'm wondering why you don't think Obama had a good idea. Why not shift the military to private providers but have the gov't (their employer) pay all or most of the premiums then the military would be using the same system most of you cherish. Before WW gets in face let me make it clear this is in jest but it does seem somewhat less than outlandish to bring up the question considering the current rhetoric.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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8/10/2009 10:13:11 PM
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There are a goodly number of military and military dependents who dream of being provided the same level of care that folks under BCBS or other health plans enjoy. Bring it on!
And don't even try to tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I lived it for 22 plus years, and in spite of a promise of lifetime health care from the military, I now have BCBS through my employer because the military system is such a joke. As an example, a friend almost died because a military corpsman decided an IV drip wasn't going too fats so he grabbed the bag and squeezed it mightily.
I tried to use CHAMPUS after I retired, but the only doctors that would take it up front weren't worth seeing (there was a reason for that), and when I footed the bill myself, CHAMPUS came back with a claim denial saying that the "normal" fee for a doctor office visit in my area (Montgomery) was $12.50. What I found was that the unbelievable amount of paperwork and time delays just made it more trouble than it is worth. I often wonder if they don't do it that way on purpose.
I now pay about $10K per year for my BCBS, and the peace of mind that comes with it is worth every penny. I may well keep working beyond when I might otherwise retire just to know that I can afford to die.
So, Archie, in which branch of the military did you serve?
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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8/10/2009 10:40:32 PM
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MrHodja .... I must confess I don't understand your position. Do you want veterans to continue under the current system? Or are you more in favor of what some Obama administration official proposed ... basically having veterans covered under private insurance plans ... paid for by tax rebates, etc? It sounds like the current system doesn't work for some/many veteran's families. I am of the belief that veterans, teachers, police and firefighters/rescuers deserve the best salaries and benefits this country can provide. And I can't speak for Architect, but I never served in our Armed Services, just like Mitch McConnell, Trent Lott, John Cornyn, John Ensign, John Boehner, Roy Blunt, Rudi Giuliani, Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson, Dennis Hastert, Dick Armey, Tom DeLay, Bill Frist, Rick Santorum, Dick Cheney, John Ashcroft, Jeb Bush, Karl Rove, Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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8/10/2009 10:41:40 PM
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You are occasionaly reasonable but, alas, more often off the wall. You know from past posts that I didn't serve in the military but appreciate the service of all who did you included. As for military healthcare, Do you claim that the gov't provided care of active duty military is as bad as the gov't provided care for veterans you just described. If so by all means let's privatize all military healthcare and insurance. Let each soldier argue with the same private provider bureaucrats you folks think are doing such a bang up job.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Well said!
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Date:
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8/10/2009 10:43:49 PM
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Also
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Date:
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8/11/2009 12:07:22 AM
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More people who have never served in the US Armed Services ... Richard Shelby, Jeff Sessions, Bob Riley, Bobby Bright, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Todd & Sarah Palin, James Dobson, Ted Haggard ... can we end this conversation?
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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8/11/2009 7:47:05 AM
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My position is that (and I will admit that I may be out of date, as I gave up on the military's version of life time health care a long time ago) the military should have the same level of care and the same CHOICES that I have now under BCBS. When I was active duty I and my family did not, and CHAMPUS after retirement was a joke. Maybe I misunderstand what is being proposed, but, even after almost 20 years of retirement, I still remember the hours we had to spend on hold waiting to get an appointment to see a doctor, and having NO choice as to who we saw.
And I am a bit concerned that our military no longer is composed of a true cross-section of our society. Lest anyone misconstrue my words, I AM PROUD OF THOSE WHO SERVE, and have the utmost respect for them. But the list of our country's leaders who haven't served is growing each year, and in my opinion one can only truly understand the military by having served.
By the way, why did you only list Republicans? What was the point in that? The military is, by law, non-partisan, and my post was non-partisan as well. You could have well populated your list with as many or more Democrats, starting with Obama and Clinton. Military health care has nothing to do with politics and shame on you and Archie for trying to use it to score a cheap-shot political point. Apparently you paint me with the same brush as some of the more strident posters. Just remember, I believe in logic and reason, and if someone can show me, logically and reasonably how the current administration's antics are good for the long-term viability of our country, I will listen. But it has to be logic and reason, not some pie-in-the-sky "it is going to be better because it is going to be different" rhetoric. You and Archie love to cherry-pick things that the previous administration did wrong. How about moving to the present and future and tell me how the Obama/Reid/Pelosi programs are going to improve the economy - not only over the next three years, but the next thirty as well.
Nasreddin Hodja
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Obama even floating the idea
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Date:
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8/11/2009 7:56:21 AM
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is bad enoungh to make your stomach sick.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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8/11/2009 8:06:03 AM
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1. See my 7:45 post above.
2. Had you served, you would have a better appreciation for what the military health care system is really like.
3. BTW, I don't hold it against you that you didn't serve. Had it not been for the draft I probably would not have either. But as it turns out it was the best thing that could have happened to and for me.
Cheers,
Nasreddin Hodja
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
For Heaven's Sake...
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Date:
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8/11/2009 8:06:48 AM
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Must we now Google the Dems who haven't served to keep pace? Clinton and Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, Boxer, Sen. Chris Dodd, Biden, Harry Reid, etc. Following this rediculous progression, I guess I should not be allowed to have an opinion on abortion since it is not likely I could give birth anyway.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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8/11/2009 12:30:27 PM
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I haven't served, as you well know. But, I've worked with a number of people who did. I think the active duty military healthcare is adequate as long as you don't have anything really serious. I know a senior NCO who had 3 "abnormal" papsmears and no futher investigation was done. By the time she finally saw a Dr. for additional symptoms, she had very advanced cancer. She was treated, but her cancer has metastisized to her brain. Unfortunately, she is now fighting for a medical discharge. She is 42.
CHAMPUS was a nightmare. They replaced it with Tricare, which seems to be somewhat better. My BIL is retired Military. When my sister was diagnosed with breast cancer in December, all of her bills were picked up by Tricare and what wasn't was paid by her BCBS (she's a federal employee). Under her regular BCBS she would have had to pay $3K out of pocket.
The thing about military health care is that it is part of the deal for serving. If you have a service connected disability, then you are supposed to be taken care of. My limited exposure to the VA has to do with my DH's service connected disability. One of DH's problem is his damaged knees. Horrible, borders on incompetent. Although DH is likely eligible to have his upcoming knee surgery at a VA facility for free, he's going to St. Vincent's to have his surgery, using his federal insurance and whatever we have to pay out of pocket. I am thankful we have that option.
I feel sorry for the young men and women who have to rely on the VA for their care after they are medically discharged.
I don't know if you all got the coverage on what was happening to military members that were being returned to Walter Reed for treatment after being injured on active duty. Another nightmare. Substandard conditions -- and Walter Reed is where the Congress and all the high ranking officers got treated. The facility was overwhelmed (not to mention that it had been "Brac'd -- Base realignment and Closure -- and the facilities run down.
Our military members deserve the best care during their service and after. They shouldn't have to pay for their care.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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8/11/2009 1:48:01 PM
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MrHodja ... I don't consider you the same as some of the others here, and I almost always enjoy your point of view. I just felt you're questioning Arcitects military service was a cheap shot, and not somethng I expected from you. You are also correct that I could have listed countless Democrats who never served. There are some on this board that I enjoy arguing with, but you are not one of those people. Thanks.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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8/11/2009 3:36:49 PM
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Re; Military service. See my 08:06:03 post below.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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8/11/2009 6:35:49 PM
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I stand corrected. My apologies.
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