Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Hillary
Date:	9/7/2015 6:46:28 PM

to quote" I have nothing to apologize for"; well I can think of a few, can't you ??

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	How about the stupid loyalty pledge?
Date:	9/8/2015 11:56:05 AM

Whoever came up with that brilliant idea deserves a medal.  To get into an event you have to sign a loyalty pledge.  All I can is the desparation is approaching the term wow.  And now we hear that she is going to be "spontaneous" and "joyful" on teh campaign trail.  All I can do is laugh at the thought of her being either.  I know, when she sends a supporter to the back of the line she will do it joyfully instead of snarkily.

Combine that with DOJ and the IG having found top secret documents on her unsecured server and her IT guy pleading 5th and I can see why she is desparate.  The big question is whether Obama will pardon her on his way out in January 2017.  We shall see how the FBI and DOJ progress on their investigation and whether a grand jury is empaneled.  If it is truly payback from the Obama machine she could very well have reason to worry.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	How about the stupid loyalty pledge?
Date:	9/8/2015 1:19:58 PM

You mean you think it is more stupid than the GOP having Trump sign a loyalty pledge.

Let's face it - these pledges aren't worth the paper that they are written on.  The truth is that Hilary went from being unbeatable to someone who is falling in the polls like a rock through water.  She'll keep on doggedly for as long as she can get money.  The fact that there were highly classified emails on her server doesn't surprise me.  And she is trying to make a case that the information was "overclassified".   I suppose that pressure could be brought to bear on the classifying authority to declassify it or lower the classification. 

As far as her IT person, I don't blame him for taking the 5th.  First, he is in hot water for unreported income - this form that is government wide make you report and certify every scrap of income, it's source and every scrap of debt.  And the agency counsel has to review in and sign it that there is no conflict of interest or suspcious income and that you aren't so far in debt that you would become blackmailable, so he's in trouble there.  Plus, who do you think helped her dump all those emails that she "reviewed" and decided whether it was personal or official?  There is a saying in Washington - when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.  Guess he is taking that advice. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	That was no loyalty pledge
Date:	9/8/2015 2:56:57 PM

Don't know where you read that but all they signed was a pledge not to run as a third party candidate.  Doesn't mean they have to vote for the eventual nominee or anything else.  But even if it were there is a big difference between the GOP asking a candidate to pledge something and a candidate asking someone to pledge to vote for them as a precondition to getting into a campaign event.  

As for the IT guy, let's use a little critical thinking here.  What is worse, helping Hillary set up a private unsecured server that contained top secret information or not reporting a little income?  If you think he pled the 5th as a result of the latter and nothing to do with the former then I can't help you.  On the scale of criminal activity his setting up this server is far more serious.  Time will tell if others follow his wise move or if they decide to take the fall for Hillary.  Either way she broke the law and a grand jury should be empaneled and she should be indicted.  Whether she will is probably more a matter of back room deals than following the law, something this current administration has little propensity to do.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	That was no loyalty pledge
Date:	9/8/2015 3:15:54 PM

Don't see it.  The IT guy configures a server to accept emails, configures mail addresses, and the like.  Most likely he never saw the contents of any of those emails unless he explicitly snooped around, and he broke no laws doing what his customer asked.  The $5K could be problematic, and in his eyes may be a big deal.  I would be willing to bet he has no idea whether he broke any laws and is relying on Hillary's lawyers for advice.  I still don't believe he knew the email content and for sure wasn't in the position to determine its classification.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Need to look into his background
Date:	9/8/2015 4:28:41 PM

Hmmm, let's see.  This guy was a long-time Clinton IT guy.  She gets the SOS job and he follows her to state.  While there he is approached by her or one of her minions who said she wanted to set up a private email server system.  He not only puts the server together but I am quite sure from his continued employment by both state and Clinton he maintains the server.  I would suggest you speak to my IT guy and he will tell you that he is intimately familiar with our system, the emails sent, solving problems, setting up accounts, emailing users and so on.  This was no one-time task.

I am sorry, but you are being way too kind.  This guy knew exactly what he was doing and what she was doing which was avoiding government oversight and FOIA requests.  Also given his IT role with state he knew exactly what the requirements are for government email and I am sure was well versed in what was allowed and not allowed.  This was not a matter of some guy setting up an email server system and turning it over to the users.  He maintained the system and knew exactly what was going on.  He just thought Hillary was exempt from the rules and the laws and went along with her scheme.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	That was no loyalty pledge
Date:	9/8/2015 4:37:18 PM

First of all, it's a fine line on loyalty pledges.  Signing that you won't run as a 3rd party candidate is the same in my mind as being asked to sign a loyalty pledge.  I'm not sure what the big deal is to you about Hilary asking people to sign a loyalty pledge.  It's not worth the paper it is written on and her supporters are probably fine with signing it. 

Now on the issue of the IT guy, sorry to let you know that it is a BIG DEAL for a federal employee to not report income on the form.  It's not the amount, it is the intent.  Secondly, I agree with Hodja that it is not a problem that he set of a server for Hilary. She is allowed to have a server, just like anyone else.  I doubt she told him that she intended to use it for all emails, in lieu of her official government email.  I think the problem for him if he is the one that dumped the emails or wiped her server, resulting in offical emails and classified emails being lost.  But lets look at it from another perspective.  He is a young guy and is boss is the Secretary of State, which happens to be a pretty powerful position.    He's going to do what she asks him to do.  He's not a lawyer, he probably doesn't know if any laws have been broken. I personally don't blame him for evoking the 5th.  Why should he put himself through a Congressional torture chamber where they have already decided that laws have been broken.  As I said, he knows now that he is in a hole and he has stopped digging.  I hope he has good legal counsel because no doubt they will try to crusify him.  He's only an IT guy, not the mastermind of some vast Hilary plot to keep incriminating emails out of the official record. 

MM, I know you hate Hilary, but really, sometimes your imagination overcomes your good sense. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Need to look into his background
Date:	9/8/2015 4:51:10 PM

Now I know your imagination has overtaken your good sense. 

Okay, so he worked for the Clintons, and he got a job at State when she became SecSTATE.  This is not unusual and happens all the time in all departments.  Politicals bring campaign workers in as Schedule C employees.  That in and of itself means nothing.  To try to turn this into a vast conspiracy is just plain ridiculous.  He's not a lawyer.  He's an It guy.  He set up a server for his boss.  If he is new to government, most likely he doesn't know that she not supposed to be using a personal server for her official emails.  Even if he eventually figures this out, he's not going to make it an issue.   He's going to keep his mouth shut.  Honestly MM, you seem to have no insight into people.  Not everyone is cut out to be a whisle blower and end up in Russia. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	FOIA
Date:	9/8/2015 4:52:46 PM

And by the way, as someone who managed people who decided on FOIA requests - it is very easy to deny them on the grounds of national security.  They are hardly a threat. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Need to look into his background
Date:	9/8/2015 5:17:34 PM

Yeah right, no insight into people having managed hundreds of them over the years and having grown my company from just me to over 125 employees in the US and Canada.  Yep, don't know anything about people.......

You don't seem to know anything about the integral role of an IT guy when it comes to setting up and running a private email server.  This guy was in the thick of everything and he knows a lot more than you are giving you credit for.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Really?
Date:	9/8/2015 5:18:45 PM

Geez, it seemed like we learned a lot from FOIA requests that got all this started.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	That was no loyalty pledge
Date:	9/8/2015 5:24:26 PM

Yeah right......the guy knows enough to plead the 5th but he is just a mindless IT guy innocently setting up a private email server for the Secretary of State, a cabinet level position in the government.  Hound, we will see who is right as this moves along.  As I maintained from the beginning this will all depend on the FBI and DOJ and whether they are serious.  It is apparent laws were broken with her having top secret emails on an unsecured server.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Really?
Date:	9/8/2015 6:40:05 PM

Only because someone didn't think it would harm national security.  You might get a document that is heavily redacted.  Your request might be denied because it is classified.  I don't think you are finding out that much from FOIA. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	That was no loyalty pledge
Date:	9/8/2015 6:41:26 PM

Yes, and she might be fined for it.  But I predict no jail time.  We've all been down this road before.  She's not the first. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Really?
Date:	9/8/2015 9:45:08 PM

C'mon Hound, your critical thinking is not working here. If they heavily redact a document that was on her unsecured server one might have wonder why. Could it be it contains classified information, perhaps?  And that is exactly the point. She violated the rules and most likely the law by having classified information, and we now know from the NY Times, top secret information about NK's nuclear program on her unsecured server sitting in a damn closet in her bathroom in her house. I just can't figure out why this doesn't bother you, especially since I know you are no fan of Hillary. Petraus has to plea bargain for having classified info in his safe at his house. One with an ounce of intellectual honesty would think what Hillary did was ten times worse. And yet you seem to think all she will get is fined. And to think Nixon had to resign the presidency for covering up a third rate burglary. How far our standards have fallen. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Need to look into his background
Date:	9/9/2015 12:33:58 AM

Still disagree.  What factual basis do you have that he knew what was in the emails?  If I am being too generous, on this one you are being too harsh.

i have been in many a server room and can assure you the last thing an IT guy wants to do is start reading the emails.  

That he was doing them a favor by setting it up.....or just looking for an easy $5K.....doesn't indict him.  I would be willing to bet he did it in an afternoon and sat back and watched it buzz.

as to culpability regarding the erasure, he sure as he!! knew he was doing something wrong.  That is the most likely reason for his pleading the fifth.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Need to look into his background
Date:	9/9/2015 8:34:46 AM

Well, I've managed more than a few people myself over the years and I have a pretty extensive experience with IT too.  But, I guess that I am losing sight of your point -  what is it exactly you think he knows?  What is this vast conspiracy you think is going on. 

Sorry MM, I still think you are wrong.  But we'll see how this plays out.  And by the way, in my view, just because you have people working for you doesn't necessarily you have special insight into people.  There are a lot of managers out there who don't have a clue about people, their motivations, and the nature of their characters.  And yes, we know you have your own successful  company and we're very proud of you.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Really?
Date:	9/9/2015 8:53:35 AM

MM, I'm very concerned that she had classifed information on her unclassified server.  From the start, I didn't think it is possible that she wouldn't have, at least received classified information.  I have always thought that she attempted to dump any emails that could be even remotely controversial.   I don't think she should have used a personal server for her official duties. And I don't believe that she is sincere in her apologies now.  Her delivery is flat and it's pretty clear she is only saying the words she thinks people want her to say. Her body language and facial expressions give her away.

As far as heavily redacted documents, you can't jump to conclusions that everything that is redacted points to some wrong doing.  It may be that certain things would reveal intelligence sources, significant advances in technology, any information that the government may just not want out in public domain.  It's not that things are being hidden, but once in the public domain, one loses control over how it might be used.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Agree
Date:	9/9/2015 9:07:39 AM

I don't think he was sitting back reading emails 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Agree with you but it really doesn't matter
Date:	9/9/2015 9:14:20 AM

Well this discussion is moot because both the IG and FBI have already found top secret information on her server related to NK's nuclear program.  Ed Klein is now reporting that Hillary's top advisors are telling her to lawyer up, plea deal to a misdemeanor like Petraeus and drop out of the race.  Apparently the FBI has increased the team working on this and have taken umbrage to her stupid jokes (ie, wiping her server clean with a rag, etc.).  The quote was "they smell blood in the water".  The apoplogy is probably step one to her lawyering up because it will reinforce to voters that she has repeatedly lied about this and cannot be trusted.  Biden looks serious about running and I suspect that tons of Dem primary voters are sticking with her only because they don't see Sanders or the other guy from Maryland as a viable alternative.  If Biden gets in they will go to him in droves.  And he will be tough to beat because the entire campaign will be about his son asking him to run and women will fall for that in larger numbers.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Need to look into his background
Date:	9/9/2015 1:04:46 PM

First of all you are the one that claimed I lacked insight into people and on that note you are wrong.  My compnay's biggest asset is the people that work for us and my ability to understand them, what motivates them, etc. is essential to our success.  So my response was to your criticism of my views regarding the level of knowledge of the IT guy.

As for what I think the guy knows its pretty simple and I have already stated it but I will do it again.  In his role he is most certainly acutely aware of the Federal Records Act and the various government rules and regulations regaring electronic communications.  He almost certainly knew that he was being asked to set up an email server system so Hillary and others could get around those rules and requirements.  He almost certainly knew that as SOS she would receive emails containing classified information, classified documents and top secret documents.  He almost certainly knew that if he disclosed the money Hillary was paying him to manage the server would cause questions to be asked so he stopped reporting that income despite being required to do so (see Huma for another example).  

If he did not he is to most incomeptent and clueless IT person on the planet.....and yet sophisticated enough to lawyer up and plead the 5th.  No wonder the FBI smells blood in the water and there is talk about exchanging immunity for his testmony.  As you said, we shall see as this unravels for Hillary but don't be shocked if it turns out my views are correct.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	We'll see
Date:	9/9/2015 6:18:05 PM

I don't know.  I guess we'll see what happens.  

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, MM has a gift
Date:	9/12/2015 10:02:35 AM (updated 9/12/2015 10:16:23 AM)

and you should know this by now, he is somehow able to articulate what everybody else is thinking even if they don't realize, understand or believe they are thinking it!  He announces my thoughts for me quite often.  lt is especially amazing he is able to do it even though he no longer even reads anything l post.  He is very gifted in every way!  lf you don't believe it just ask him...he is always as open and willing to declare his superior intellect as the Donald.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, MM has a gift
Date:	9/12/2015 10:23:22 AM

He really does get under your skin....

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, MM has a gift
Date:	9/12/2015 11:26:45 AM (updated 9/12/2015 11:29:06 AM)

On occasion, he// yeah...but pretty obviously not as much as l get under his!