Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/4/2014 3:45:59 PM

Alabama Power is in the process  of offering leesees who currently have leased lots the opportunity to purchase their lots. Certain concerns have surfaced among some of the leesees such as to what criteria was used by Alabama Power in arriving at their appraised value. One major concern seems to be their use of a commercial appraisal firm out of Birmingham to do the appraisals. A recent study by a real estate person in the LAKE MARTIN area on his findings regarding the appraisal of lake property was discussed under Lake Martin Topics a few days ago. His observations on this subject seemed well founded and offer excellent information, in my opinion, on arriving at fair lot appraisals. If there are any leesees of Alabama Power lots who have already purchased their lots or are in the process of purchasing their lots, it could be beneficial to all concerned to gain information on their experiences(either good or bad, or   both). HOPEFULLY some good feedback can be generated on this topic.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/4/2014 5:23:41 PM

I have financed several of these lease purchases and all the values they [AP] derived were fair & accurate based on the appraisals I ordered from local appraisers

Name:	itisd -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/4/2014 5:42:30 PM

I think the prices the power company sets is considerably lower than that of the mega property owner, speculator. I know its far less than the prices in the bigger developements.

Name:	Osms -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/5/2014 7:22:16 PM

I went through the purchase of the leased lot about a year ago and I found that APCo offer to be very high compared with the local market.  I met with the APCo contracted appraiser (commercial from B'ham, and he was unfamiliar with the Lake Martin area and seemed to have a preconceived idea of what the appraisal should be; in other words he seemed to arrive at our house with little interest in evaluating the lot.  After six months of negotiations I was successful in receiving an final offer of about 54% of their initial offer.  The APCo appraisals (I went to B'ham and reviewed mine) use Marina Marin, Willow Point, Windemere, and Trillium as their comps for rural lease lots, which is unfair and inaccurate in my opinion.  Lease Lots don't have curb and gutter, swimming pools, club houses, etc. and should not be priced as if they do.  My advice to anyone negotiating is hang in there, don't give up and don't lose your cool.

Name:	Dinky -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/5/2014 10:57:37 PM (updated 4/5/2014 11:26:44 PM)

Our lot was recently appraised by the Alabama power company to offer to us for sale.  The price of the land added onto the appraisal of the house makes it one of the highest in our area. It is probably one of the smallest houses. About 10 years ago the lot was offered to the owner and the price was a third of what it was appraised for recently. I realize that prices are higher over all, but 3 times higher? I don't know any financial institution that would consider loaning that amount of money on that property. The rep from the Power Company told me to consider making an offer that I thought was appropriate and see what happened.  I plan on asking for a copy of the appraisal so that I can see just what the comp properties were.  

Name:	Maverick -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/6/2014 8:43:47 AM (updated 4/6/2014 8:45:45 AM)

Hire a realtor to negotiate on your behalf as they have access to all the lot comps and then pay them an agreed upon success fee or commission. Would be very hard for APco to argue with historical 3rd party comps and experienced realtor thus should hopefully shorten the process and ensure you pay failed value 

For example see John C (John Coley's) article on lot sales at Lake Martin on his website. Lake Martin Voice. John did an excellent job analyzing the data and providing a comprehensive and concise overview.

Name:	Osms -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/6/2014 2:55:15 PM

Novel idea, except John would probably have to beg off since he has the exclusive listing for 29 new lots in Emerald Shores, an Alabama Power development.  I am sure John wouldn't want to feel conflicted.  Since most of the APCo leased lots are on the east side of the lake, one might consider Toni Adcock for such a job.  

Name:	CranBob -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/7/2014 10:10:15 AM

Toni sold a house on the East side last year and she is very professional and knowledgable about the Lake and Values.

Name:	John C -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/7/2014 10:12:49 AM

Thanks, OSMS, for your concern, but there's no conflict.

In fact, I am glad that your concern about a possible conflict didn't stop you from calling me and asking my advice about your own lot negotiation. I am happy for you that it turned out well! Congrats on the successful purchase.

Name:	Osms -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/7/2014 4:58:10 PM

Yes, I did contact you and most everyone else I knew in the business so that I could gain as much knowledge as possible.  I remember last year, I was negotiating with APCo at the same time you were negotiating your contract to list Emerald Shores lots for APCo.  And I know we were both working with the same department in Birmingham.  Since your boss at APCo is the decision maker on leased lots,  there does appear to be a conflict of interest to me.  But, that's just me.

Name:	roswellric -	Reply
Subject:	Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/7/2014 9:30:37 PM

What a mess... Sounds like the Federal Government. Lawsuits to follow.

Name:	John C -	Reply
Subject:	To OSMS re: Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/8/2014 12:12:16 PM

OSMS - some points I'd like to make:

1. I agree with you recommending Toni Adcock. That is always a good idea. Toni is an awesome realtor and person. She is a great choice and any one reading this can rest assured she would do a great job.

2. When you throw around words like "conflict" - I guess you mean conflict of interest. Perhaps you are unclear about AL real estate law. To say that I have a "boss" at AL Power is incorrect. It's a contractual client relationship. Much like if I was the listing agent of a home, and showing the home to a buyer. AL Real Estate law requires, and my personal ethics insist, that I disclose to them that I am the listing agent and owe allegiance to the seller on that property. In this case, when people like you call to ask my advice on something, I always disclosed that while I was (and am) the listing agent on some lots for AL Power, I have no interest in (in this case your) leased lot. It's none of my business and I have no influence with AL Power whatsoever. It's just like me listing a home for someone that also has another property for sale with someone else. Right now, in real life, that is the case with me. I have one home (A) listed for a person. The same person has another home (B) listed with another realtor. If a buyer asked me about home B, that is not a conflict of interest by law or by spirit, especially when I disclose my relationship with the seller on home A.

3. I am not a lawyer, but in my layman's understanding of real estate case law, suits usually arise when an agent has done something wrong AND GOTTEN PAID because of it. When you called to ask my advice, my charge to you was the same as the commission I have charged everyone else that has a leased lot that called me - Zero. Zilch. Nada.  I am counting up in my head all of the people that called me (including you) and adding up the first offers that they were given by AL Power. I am coming up with about $3 or $4 million, but let's call it $3m. If I add up the total of what the owners actually paid, after going through the process with AL Power - (including you) - I come up with a little less than $2 million.  While I can't take full credit for a negotiation process that I merely advised in, I do point out that $1 million in savings is no small change, and even one half of one percent of $1 million is nothing to sneeze at - $5,000. Most of the people that called for my advice offered to pay me something. You didn't, but almost every other person did. I refused all payments, and, like I did with you, gave them my best advice and wished them all the best of luck with it. 

You have demonstrated over time, in this forum and through the HOBOs, that you have many critical things to say about AL Power. OK, that's your right, we live in America.

But, I am asking you to please be very careful about extending that umbrella of skepticism to those like me. To even insinuate that I breeched a client level relationship or acted in conflict of interest and benefitted from it, when in fact I disclosed all relationships and refused all payment from everyone, is completely inaccurate. Since I am a businessman and a person that takes my reputation seriously, please know that I will always defend myself vigorously, in whatever venue is appropriate.

Name:	Hadenuff -	Reply
Subject:	To OSMS re: Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/8/2014 12:18:36 PM

Well said John. Thanks for all the information you share on this forum. I have always enjoyed your posts, especially this one.

Name:	John C -	Reply
Subject:	To OSMS re: Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/8/2014 12:24:07 PM

thanks for the kind words, Hadenuff

Name:	Osms -	Reply
Subject:	To OSMS re: Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/8/2014 11:08:45 PM

John,

Apparantely i struck a frazzled nerve from the relicensing days so i'll just make a couple of comments, then i'm off this thread.  Yes, i was talking about conflict of interest which i explained very clearly.  You imply i've accused you of something terrible and that certainly is not the case.  in fact, i said i didn't think you would involve yourself in such a situation.

As for the mechanics of real estate ethics, i have no interest is such.

As for the phone discussion, you did return my call and to the best of my knowledge i asked you about whether you knew anything about how APCo did the appraisals and you said you didn't know anything.  Subsequent to our conversation, i emailed you  on 3/19/13, a detailed description of what i found out about their appraisals when i visited their offices in Birmingham.   i do find it mystifying that you would imply that i should have offered to pay for your services, when no services were provided.  Matter of fact, i provided you with far more insight than you were able to provide.

Go back and read my previous posts and tell me where i accused you of anything.  i implied you wouldn't do it.

John, i think you and i both need to back off and let this pass. 

Name:	Excape -	Reply
Subject:	To OSMS re: Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/10/2014 9:20:00 AM

I do not know John personally, but every one of his posts I have read, including this one, is completely accurate and correct.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	To OSMS re: Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/10/2014 9:50:41 AM

WAIT  Let me get my words in and then we have to quit discussing this.  I too have found John's info to be on target, but I have found his demeanor to detest getting into situations like this.

Name:	Mchtwo -	Reply
Subject:	To OSMS re: Alabama Power Leased Lots
Date:	4/21/2014 11:13:10 PM

As an aside, not sure why anyone would lease a lot from APC considering what they are doing to the poor folks at Pleasure Point.