Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	If you're going to wear masks be aware
Date:	7/13/2020 2:53:57 PM (updated 7/13/2020 3:42:08 PM)

A study done in 2013 on surgical masks demonstrated that virus counts were near pre-wear level in about two hours irrespective of the type of mask. There was no significant difference between cotton fabric and two ply disposable masks. Face masks significantly decreased bacterial dispersal initially but became almost ineffective after two hours of use. So be advised that if you wear a mask for more than two hours whatever benefit you are getting is gone altogether.  And remember, this is with surgical masks and not the worthless cloth masks everyone seems to be wearing.  The recommendation from the study is to replace the surgical masks every 30 minutes or so.  So all you people wearing your mask every hour of every day know that even with a new mask it stops working after two hours.  So replace them often or decontaminate them after every two hours of use at most and more often if possible.  Otherwise you are no better off than without a mask.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	If you're going to wear masks be aware
Date:	7/13/2020 3:12:36 PM (updated 7/13/2020 3:14:04 PM)

I am wearing a N95 and a clear plastic shield over it and say a prayer when I go into a store. Best I can do other than stay home.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	If you're going to wear masks be aware
Date:	7/13/2020 3:25:33 PM

I think you can relax, there is very little risk if you stay away from others.  And don't let them get close to you even if you and they are wearing a mask.  Even the N95 stops working after a couple of hours of wearing them.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	If you're going to wear masks be aware
Date:	7/14/2020 8:40:01 AM

How about the clear shield over the mask?

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Just a restatement of facts
Date:	7/14/2020 9:05:53 AM

The particle size of viruses ranges from .0016 to .01 microns.  In comparison, tobacco smoke is .013 to .19 microns.  Both of these fall in the "ultrafiltration" range.

https://www.units-of-measure.com/2019/06/osmonics-filtration-spectrum-chart.html

So... if you are concerned about corona virus put on your mask and have someone smoke a cigarette near you.  The question is: Can you smell the cigarette?

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Just a restatement of facts
Date:	7/14/2020 9:13:37 AM

The question is Does the mask aid in the suppression of particles being spread by the wearer?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	If you're going to wear masks be aware
Date:	7/14/2020 9:22:15 AM

Clear shield will only help with water droplets being spewed from the mouth.  Limited help for the aerosols which are the most likely cause of transmission.  Again, wear what you want but stay away from others and wash your hands, use hand sanitizer or disinfectant wipes when you can't wash your hands and take your temperature every day and if you're not feeling well stay home and away from others.  Those things actually work.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Just a restatement of facts
Date:	7/14/2020 9:29:16 AM (updated 7/14/2020 9:30:13 AM)

It is of limited value for aerosols because they pass right through and float around in the air.  For water droplets it will help but so does covering your mouth when you cough and sneeze.  And the droplets fall to the ground rapidly and over a short distance anyway so unless someone is sneezing or coughing right next to you they are not a significant source of transmission anyway.  If particles can get in when you inhale they will go out when you exhale. It is basically the same fluid dynamics in either direction.  You exhale through the mask and the particles are then free to float around.  And this doesn't include the inhaled/exhaled air that escapes from the sides of the mask because it is not properly designed, fit tested and worn.  Those enter and escape unimpeded. The masks are near on useless for the average person.

And again, as the study referenced above demonstrates, after two hours of wear there is close to zero effect of a mask.  Wear a mask if you want but to really be safe do all the other things.

Name:	RHH -	Reply
Subject:	Just a restatement of facts
Date:	7/14/2020 9:45:13 AM

You continue to show that you don't understand epidemiology. You spew 'facts' that you derive from your limited training in industrial safety courses. That is only partially relevant to decreasing the spread of disease which is what epidemiologists are talking about.

We all realize that seat belts are a positive addition to our overall safety but they are not perfect in preventing injury. Don't let the absence of perfection interfere with the persute of the good. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Another fact free post from Archie, Jr.
Date:	7/14/2020 9:54:50 AM

You continue to spew a litany of non-facts.  I reference studies to support my position on masks.  You make vague reference to so-called experts but never seem to have any specifics.  I am open to changing my views when I see the data and studies that conclusively refute the ones I have referenced.  Just having someone like Fauci telling me to do something isn't going to cut it.  Regardless, I went to the post office today to pay my taxes and they require a mask so I wore mine.  I have to go to Austin to help my youngest daughter move and they require masks and I will wear mine in accordance with their stupid requirement.  My decisions are driven by the science and science drives those occupational safety requirements.  

As for seat belts, I always wear one because studies have shown conclusively that they save lives which is consistent with common sense.  I follow the science and am not a mind-numbed sheeple that bows down to whatever some govt person says because I know they are not even remotely the best of the best....far from it.....if they were they would be in the private sector rather than in a job that doesn't require results to stay employed.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Not a spelling nazi
Date:	7/14/2020 10:02:48 AM

But RHH claims to be a doctor but can't spell pursuit.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Not a spelling nazi
Date:	7/14/2020 10:12:57 AM

Dear lord, please don't tell me he's a doctor.  I worry about buildings designed by a certain irrational architect and now I have to worry about this guy treating me........oh nooooooooo!!!!  :-)

Name:	RHH -	Reply
Subject:	Just a restatement of facts
Date:	7/14/2020 4:44:31 PM

You just asked the pertinent question. Of course it does. It simply reduces the radius of spread from the wearers respiratory areas out into the surrounding environment. Some masks accomplish this better than other masks but they all help somewhat. This is why you cover your mouth when you sneeze etc.. Not perfection, just decreased spread.

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	Just a restatement of facts
Date:	7/14/2020 6:21:18 PM

I think that most everyone agrees with what you just said.  The problem, however, is that many people seem to think that since they are wearing a mask, they are immune to Covid 19.  I have been out shopping or at other functions that everyone is wearing a mask, and yet they get within inches of each other, pull them down so they can communicate, and think that just having a mask dangling from their ears is somehow going to protect them.  Keeping your distance and common sense are far better than a mask mandate IMHO.

Name:	RHH -	Reply
Subject:	Just a restatement of facts
Date:	7/14/2020 8:08:01 PM

I certainly can't defend the way people wear masks in all sorts of bizarre ways such as with their schnoz hanging out.

i  do, however, disagree that most everyone agrees that wearing a mask is helpful. That is why I keep weighing in on Martini's inane postings and others on this forum agreeing with him. Unfortunately it is one of the few weapons we have against the increasing spread of this virus (short of staying in your own dwelling). He is a prolific poster and his views are dangerous. Unfortunately it affects others around him and is counterproductive to what we all want to accomplish.

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	Just a restatement of facts
Date:	7/14/2020 8:26:54 PM

Well, not to speak for martiniman (as he is more than capable of speaking for himself), I think that what he is saying is if you want to wear a mask, by all means please do so; but, don't assume that donning a mask is going to prevent you from getting Covid-19.  It is far more important to maintain social distancing, practice sound hygiene and avoid functions with very large large crowds.  And I would agree with him on those points.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Just a restatement of facts
Date:	7/15/2020 8:16:15 AM

Yep, I agree with you but the value of masks is way overstated and I see people all the time wearing them and not practicing social distancing out of a false sense of security.  I have noticed that people are more careful to stay away from me when they see I'm not wearing one which is great with me and what I want them to do.  But the science on the actual effectiveness of these cloth masks is pretty clear and they are about 5% effective until you've worn them for a couple of hours and after that they are worthless.  I would never discourage anyone form wearing them unless they relax on the other measures.  And I wear one when I have to like I did this morning at my annual mole patrol at the dermatologist's office.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	It's not me that's dangerous
Date:	7/15/2020 8:23:14 AM (updated 7/15/2020 8:30:59 AM)

Your views are the ones that are dangerous and mine are backed up by papers in prestigious medical journals and yours are always backed up by anonymous "experts".  You misinform people as to the value of masks that makes them think they are impervious to the virus.  Not once have you agreed with my statement of fact that people who wear masks do not social distance as well as they should.....and if you don't think that's the case you are hiding in your basement.  You have never once acknowledged the fact that regular, vigorous washing of hands, avoiding touching your face, using hand santizers, etc. are the most effective tool for avoiding infection.   You are the dangerous one and I am doing a valuable public service informing people that masks are not the panacea that they are being misled into believing by you and other sheeple.   I never once told anyone not to wear them......quite the contrary, I tell them if it makes them feel better they should wear them all the time.  But I warn them not to lessen up on the other measures that actually work. 

So you lied about what I am saying which is typical for a TDS suffering leftist.  You probably also believe Trump colluded with the Russians and NY and NJ did a great job with the virus don't you?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Another data point to consider on masks
Date:	7/15/2020 9:56:56 AM

The government changed it's view of masks in May.  Since then mask usage has increased significantly across all demographic groups.  From the CDC study.

Data published in CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report showed that within days of the first national recommendation, 61.9% people reported using cloth face-coverings when they left home. This number rose to 76.4% a month later.

The use of cloth masks rose in May across socio-demographic groups. The largest increases were among non-Hispanic White people (54.3% to 75.1%), people older than 65 years (36.6% to 79.2%), and those living in the Midwest (43.7% to 73.8%).

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Bingo....exactly what I am saying
Date:	7/15/2020 10:57:58 AM

And have said on multiple occasions.  But RHH is like most left wing nuts, they don't actually listen or can't comprehend simple English and love to misrepresent what others say in a tone of righteous indignation.  He says I am dangerous and inane even though my views are backed by the science, studies, etc.  His are backed by anonymous "experts" of which 99% agree.....why not 100%?  The latter is no more true or believable than 99%.  It literally scares the he!! out of me if this guy is actually a doctor.  I pray to the good Lord I never get treated by him if he is......

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Good Grief!!!
Date:	7/15/2020 7:17:26 PM

How dense are you people.  BOTTOM LINE FROM THE BEGINNING...IF YOU WEAR A MASK YOU ARE DOING SO PRIMARILY TO PROTECT OTHERS FROM YOU, NOT TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM OTHERS!!!  It is an unselfish sacrifical act...something that a nuts like Donald Trump and MM simply cannot fathom!