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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Libya mission Looks to be a mess
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Date:
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3/22/2011 5:20:08 PM
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I am still undecided about what we are doing in Libya and whether it is a good idea or not but otherwise it looks like a FUBAR. I am undecided mostly because I think Ghadafi is a nut job and it still bothers me he was never punished for the Pan Am bombing which he apparently personally ordered. But at the same time I don't think anyone knows what will replace him. I fortunately have the luxury of waiting and seeing and being an armchair QB on this one.
But the conflicting messages and the apparent lack of desire of anyone in the coalition to actually lead is what is bringing me to the FUBAR conclusion. And this is not just an Obama problem, it is a coalition problem but frankly what you get when you try to do something by committee. Obama says we will be done in a few days, others in the administration have said it will take weeks, no one has agreed to step up and take over enforcement of the no fly zone, some want NATO but Turkey has objected, the French say they want to lead the mission, the Brits are non-committal but seem to want NATO, Italy won't let them use their bases unless NATO takes over, Germany doesn't like the mission at all, Putin is leading the anti-involvement charge, etc.
I think what this demonstrates is that when someone doesn't lead the charge from beginning to end it is a mess. Where it appears Obama mostly dropped the ball is that everyone knew there would be a transition but no one worked out any details. I suspect in the end we will get the bulk of the heavy lifting as usual but who knows at this point. If I were Ghadafi watching this I would hunker down in the hopes that the coalition falls apart and he can get back to killing his own people.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Libya mission Looks to be a mess
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Date:
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3/22/2011 6:34:24 PM
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I'm in favor of letting the French lead. We don't have to be the policeman of the world. Let someone else do it for a change. On the news tonight, they are saying in a few days our mission will be limited to flying surveillance and aerial refueling.
Sad to say, I think what we're seeing is what happens when you have the civilian leadership running the mission, not the military. According to what Admiral Mullins had to say in an interview, he believes it is a short, targeted mission to destroy the Libyan military capability. Unfortunately, I think they are finding out that the "rebels" are totally untrained and unorganized.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Coalition has apparently collapsed
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Date:
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3/23/2011 2:57:27 PM
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My fears of a FUBAR is sadly coming true. And now we have Obama in response to a press question saying that Ghadafi can now stay if just behaves. What a total mess. I am not even remotely sorry to say but this is a huge I told you so about taking a chance on a community agitator as POTUS. He is just not up to the task and this is a great example but by no means the only one. I think I now understand why it took him so long to decide what to do, he actually has no idea what he is doing.
I can't remember who said it but the gist of the quote was that every Presidency is defined by events that they did not expect and could not control and how they respond defines their legacy.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Obama is guaranteeing failure in Libya
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Date:
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3/23/2011 4:28:22 PM
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If regime change as originally espoused is the goal he just guaranteed failure. He has stated unequivocally that there would be no ground troops. Ghadafi will just wait them out.........well a good idea or not this is the most feckless debacle since Clinton cut and ran in Somalia. Given this leadership, or lack thereof, I think the U.S. should just stay on the sidelines for the next two years until we can get some adult supervision on our foreign policy. All I can say is wow.....
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Coalition Failure?
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Date:
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3/23/2011 5:27:37 PM
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I don't think the coalition is failing necessarily -- I just think that they haven't fully explored all the what ifs. Much like Iraq... where we never considered the end game if we weren't embraced by the Iraqi people and they weren't up to the tast of self governing.
Sadly, Colin Powell said it all -- "you break it, you bought it".
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Coalition Failure?
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Date:
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3/23/2011 7:32:34 PM
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I think if the mission is to get rid of Ghadafi then it looks like it will fail, especially with the no ground troops statement and now his vascillation on whether he has to go. He will just wait it out. Hopefully if getting him gone is the mission they will change course.
On the coalition I was pointing out that it appears to be falling apart, not failing. Two different but I suppose related issues. It just seems a mess and the people in our administration don't seem on the same page much less the coalition.
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