Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/26/2020 9:01:47 PM

So, the Wisconsin DOJ, which has taken over the investigation of the shooting of Jacob Blake, has put out a statement stating that he (Blake) had a knife on the floorboard of his car when he was shot by the officer.  Although that does not aboslutely absolve the officer who shot him, it certainly puts a different context as to what happened.  Police are trained to use deadly force to protect themselves as long as their actions are reasonable in light of the threats that a police officer faces.  If he was in fact reaching for a knife, as he was leaning down into his vehicle when he was shot, the officer had the right to use deadly force, as any police manual and training program would instruct.  I only wish that people (especially political leaders) on both sides would just save the rhetoric, stay calm and let the investigators do their job.  It just might have saved several lives (and businesses) in Kenosha, WI.      

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 12:30:13 AM (updated 8/27/2020 12:37:27 AM)

I don't understand if they had to shoot  why 1 bullet from a police revolver would not have disabled him? There is no excuse for 7 bullets at close range into his back. Do you think 7 was justified...I don't. It was like a shooting range with the target 6 inches away.

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 7:23:51 AM

Good question, Fishy.  Seven shots do seem excessive to me, but I wasn't the one facing the threat.  Reports do indicate that Blake was tased after he was involved in a scuffle with the officers before he walked around the vehicle and reached into the front driver's side.  Regardless, the issue at any trial of the officer for murder is going be whether he was legally entitled to use deadly force under the circumstances, not how many shots were fired.      

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 8:13:30 AM

I asked a friend's son about this and he said they are trained to empty their gun if they are forced to use it.  It's called deadly force for a reason.  Basically the officer didn't know if he was reaching for a gun or a knife.  Nor did he know if the perp was under the influence of drugs that would have made one bullet ineffective and could have put the officer's life at risk.  Bear in mind this is the end of a longer event where the perp violently resisted arrest before ignoring their commands and heading to his car to get who knows what.  Also bear in mind how those 7 shots only took a few seconds.  Once he was forced to shoot his training took over.  So no, in this case how many shots had nothing to do with it.

So there's a lot of reasons why we should wait and see what actually happened and not rush to judgement.  And I can tell you one thing for absolutely certain, if you or I did exactly what this guy did we too would have been shot by the officer.  It had nothing to do with his skin color, it had to do with his bad decisions and he would be alive today if he had obeyed the officers.  This is his fault.  Whether the offier used excessive force is something that will play out over time.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 8:18:35 AM

He can't be tried for murder, the guy is expected to live.  Paralized most likely, but alive.  LEO's are trained to shoot till the suspect goes down, not just until they are "hit".  Seven does seem excessive but they were dealing with a known violent felon, and BTW radio trafric shows they knew who they were dealing with before they got there and that he had outstanding felony warrants.  Walking away is considered fleeing and using deadly force against fleeing felons has always been a justified use of deadly force.

You also have to factor in adrenalin.  He had already fought them and been tased while resisting arrest.  Those LEO's were rightous in there fear for their lives.  I believe statistics would show that in most officer involved shootings the amount of shots is usually escrssive because by the time they are shooting fear and adrenaline have taken over IMO.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	He is alive today
Date:	8/27/2020 8:20:30 AM (updated 8/27/2020 8:22:43 AM)

He is expected to be paralized, but not DEAD.

He has also admitted to investigators that he had a knife.  The cops were called because he apparently was under a restraining order to stay away from the GF who actually called the police because she apparently feared his violent temper.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 8:24:24 AM

Article from mid 2016 pre Trump so this would have been during the Obammy Admin.  Your one bullet should do it, is not realistic in a close quarters gunfight when your life is on the line.  There have been many reports of people who are on drugs who do not even slow down when tasered or hit with bullets - you keep firing till the threat is no longer a threat.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-trained-shoot-wound-experts/story?id=40402933

Police are trained to stop dangerous, life-threatening or murderous behavior, Kelly said. This holds true for all police departments across the country, he added.

Anytime a firearm is discharged, it's considered deadly force, said David Klinger, professor of Criminology and Criminal Justice at the University of Missouri-St. Louis. Shooting to injure or maim someone wouldn't stop an aggressive subject, Klinger said, and officers are trying to stop the threat to their life, or the life of their partner or a citizen.

"Why would we want to injure or maim people?" he said. "It doesn't stop them."

Because of the potential risks, it would be "very difficult" to train officers to shoot to wound instead, Kelly said. If someone's life is in jeopardy, shooting to maim or injure will have little effect on the actions of the individual who is trying to kill, Klinger added.

Multiple Shots Are Often Necessary

Officers are trained to shoot with the understanding that one shot may not stop an aggressive subject, Klinger said.

There are only two ways to shut down the human body using deadly force, he said. The first is loss of blood, and the other is a shot to the central nervous system. Police officers are trained to shoot at center mass, in the torso area.

Klinger recalled an incident in 1981 when he was a young officer with the LAPD. The suspect had just stabbed his partner in the chest with a butcher knife, and immediately jumped on top of his partner and held the knife to his throat. Klinger called it a "rookie mistake" when he tried to take the knife away from the suspect.

Even after Klinger shot the suspect and the bullet pierced his left lung, aorta and right lung, the suspect still continued to fight for at least another 30 seconds, Klinger said. It took a total of six officers to subdue him and get him to drop the knife. If the man were armed with a gun instead of a knife, Klinger would have had to keep shooting because "he would have continued to be a threat."

"Even if an officer shoots [someone] with a lethal firearm, it may not stop a person," he said. "When there is a threat to life right now, or serious bodily injury, deadly force is the appropriate response."

So from that article - person with a bullet hole through both lungsand aortacontinued to fight and even with that injury took 6 officers to subdue and get him to drop the knife.    So one bullet that did massive internal damage did not stop him for at least 30 seconds, and still took 6 officers to stop the threat.  

So when someone threatens you, please feel free to practice your one bullet theory - maybe even only load one in the gun to start with just in case you get spooked and fire more then one.  Chances are the perp will probably beat you with your own gun as all you may do is piss him off.

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 8:53:20 AM

Good point.  Should have written attempted murder or assualt with a deadly weapon, etc.  If they do charge the officer with any criminal conduct, however, the issue will still be the same i.e. was he entitled to use deadly force under the circumstances?

Name:	weagle74 -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 9:24:01 AM

But of course, the BLM "protestors" would NEVER listen to this advice as they are apparently ready to riot at the drop of a hat. As you say, lots of lives and businesses could be saved if cooler heads prevailed, but that's wishful thinking.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 9:33:11 AM

He is currently not charged that way unless something changed.  They can argue did he have the right to shoot him, excessive force etc - but that is not the charges he was facing last I heard.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 9:56:13 AM

Nah....just look at the latest riots as a result of some black perp that committed suicide.  Police had nothing to do with his death but they are looting and rioting anyway.  These people don't care about black lives or police brutality.  That's merely the pretext for them to do what they want which is to overthrow our form of government.  the rest are just petty criminals looking to score free stuff.  These riots need to be put down with extreme force.  Rioters and looters, especially those from outside the area, need to be charged with Federal crimes so they can take the prosecution away from local AG's that are under the thumb of people like Soros.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 10:30:27 AM

I agree that it is better to wait for the facts - but for BLM, it's a good time to riot when a black man is confronted by police. Of course, Benjamin Crump, sensing that there will be a soundbite and $$$ for him, rushed to the aid of the family.  Funny, didn't seem him rush to the family of a 1 year old caught in the crossfire of gangs last weekend, but I digress.  

I expect that the investigation will only confirm that the police shot an unarmed (?) black man (who was only going to check on his kids in the car (?). (note he has 6 kids and is only 29).  He will be indicted and then the jury will not find him guilty.   They will put him and his family through the drill, because BLM will continue to riot until they do.  The city will end up paying out millions to the family in the civil suit.  (Have we seen this movie before?)

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Another reason to keep firing...
Date:	8/27/2020 12:12:56 PM

Over the past 2 or 3 years most police depts have switched from .40 cal to 9mm.  The change occurred because some ballistic tests showed the 9mm was “close” to the .40 and recoil was less!  But, real life has shown that more shots are required to stop the perp.  I use .40 cal for that reason.....I’d use a .50 cal machine gun if I was a cop today.  BTW, the exact same excuse was made when the M-16 was introduced to replace the M-14.  We were fed the line of BS that the 5.56 mm round would “tumble” upon impact and cause the same damage as the .308.....LIE.  Big counts!!

BTW, want a good deal on a used police .40, go online.  Lot’s of ‘em for sale.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Another reason to keep firing...
Date:	8/27/2020 2:00:26 PM

Slow motion and ballastics jell proves that one BS.  all bullets will tumble/deflect some depending on what they hit hard objects.  Plus I have often heard from cops / investigators that as a rule if they find a person with one gunshot that looks more like a sniper did the job - they are less likely to think you were afraid for your life and got 1 lucky Cinderella shot and it was not planned or staged vs multiple holes with a few misses showing that you were probably afraid for your life and fired in panick mode.

Big difference in what happens when afraid vs execution or sniper style.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 2:01:32 PM

Its like Nascar and drinking - many just use it as an excuse.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 2:04:29 PM

 because BLM will continue to riot because they want to.

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 2:47:43 PM (updated 8/27/2020 3:22:51 PM)

Very good MM.  Accurate with no fluff.

Info abound.  Scroll forever.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo

George Floyd FATAL dose of fentanyl in court records. Conspiracy fact.

https://www.wnd.com/2020/08/george-floyd-bombshell-m-e-suspected-fatal-level-fentanyl-according-court-docs/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=wnd-brief&utm_campaign=dailypm&utm_content=brief&ats_es=8f0f31e51307de3cf7a69311bae87aa2

So he was dead before the cops put their knee on his neck.  Now who gave him the shot?  Himself?

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	Always Best To Be Calm and Wait For The Facts
Date:	8/27/2020 5:07:46 PM (updated 8/27/2020 5:08:26 PM)

Looks like household names are running the break and burn show.  They are complicit.

See mime.