Name:	jram -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/22/2020 9:53:00 PM (updated 6/22/2020 9:57:01 PM)

New Poster Here.

We have recently caught wind of one of our neighbors in Kawaliga Creek area in the planning stages of building a second new home for in-laws on their large lot.  However, it says in the covenents only one home dwelling per deeded lot.  If they decided to break ground on this new second home, who should neighbors call to report this? 

Since there are no building inspections, do they even need a permit to build?  What will/can they do anyway if anything?  We are not full time so we can't monitor activity all the time.  We do not know these neighbors at all but do know the restrictions don't allow this to happen.

Realtor John Colley wrote this good article on similar problems but it doesn't cover multiple houses on one lot and how to report violaters.

https://lakemartinvoice.com/2016/07/12/do-restrictions-constrict-at-lake-martin/

Thank you for your input,

Jordan

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/22/2020 10:25:59 PM

How do you know what their covenent says?  Are you in a gated community?  Who has responsibility overall for your gated community.  Is there a board?

One thing that is consistent is that you have to have to have a permit to dig a new septic.  I don't think any of the setic installers will augment or put in a new system without approval from the county. You could check in with the county Health Department and see what they say   The other thing is that you could check with the county tax office and see what they have to say.  

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 6:09:49 AM (updated 6/23/2020 6:12:36 AM)

Hound what makes you think, other than your eletism,  that it has to be a gated community to have covenants?  Any neighborhood can form an HOA and submit themselves to any covenants they wish.

To the new poster, if you have an HOA contact them and the health dept.  Unfortunately if it is an older neighborhood and the HOA has disbanded I'm not sure you have much recourse.  I don't know exactly where you are but a lot of the older neighborhoods have old covenants of file but are no longer enforceable.  I was given a set of covenants for my S/D when I bought 20 years ago only to quickly find out they are nto enforceableany longer for legal reasons. There is a fairly new devlepment right next to us.  It has a dirt road, no cable, and covenants to protecrt those that are building,

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 6:17:15 AM

Any lot that was purchased from Alabama Power has some covenant docs that speak to the multiple housing, farm animals, campers, etc.

Or at least I think that is the case.  My lot was once Alabama Power lease lot and I have such a document.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 7:37:02 AM

You are correct sir.  Without knowing where the house is it is hard to advise the fellow on who to contact, but I am afraid it will be for naught.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 8:04:39 AM

I suspect she was really trying to find out if there is an active homeowners association that would enforce the covenant and that is most likely the case in gated communities around the lake.  I live in Sandy Creek Estates and there are covenants but no association.  People in the neighborhood tend to remind others of the covenants when they run afoul of them.  Absent an association to enforce I suspect their only recourse is to hire a lawyer.  If it were me I would do the neighborly thing and go talk to them, explain the covenant and why it exists to protect all the property owners.  If they are reasonable they will abandon their plans.  If they are smart and it is allowed they will subdivide their lot.  If they are obnoxious it will get ugly quickly.  As for me, I would rather have a harmonious relationship with my lake neighbors because a bad one is misery for all involved.

Name:	dogleg -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 8:10:25 AM

We are in an area of former Alabama Power lots. All of the lakefront property around our slough is former AP and comes with the following restrictions when bought: no multi-family dwellings, no trailers, one house per deeded lot with a five foot setback for structures, approved sewage system required.....etc. Several years ago, a group of industrious new-money rednecks decided to build an additional house jammed onto their steepish hillside lot. That being so successful, the started a third one like a well funded Beirut slum piled up the hillside. Neighbors looked in to stopping this based on the deed docs. Unfortunately, it seems the only way to attempt to enforce deed covenants in the absence of a HOA is through civil suit. Most wont go that far, and you're probably dealing with a lawyer owning the offending property haha, so get used to it. We now have a bonafide three house party complex whose lights and PA system just make the whole slough thrill to the redneckery no one had previously thought possible. They have the most extensive library of Bro-country music you ever wanted to hear at 1:00 am.

Name:	jram -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 8:15:30 AM

I should have been more descriptive as this is on the same lines as Lakngul suggests.  It is an old large older APC lot (approx 1+ acre) with a dirt driveway and 2500 sqft cabin/house already on it. 

The "subdivision" APC documents are about 20 pages long so I attached an excert below for which their house would fall under.  Apparently, as John Coley describes in his article, this is the same covenant that 98 percent of APC lots fall under.

Thank you all for your input, very much appreciated.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 9:08:42 AM

Now it is more clear.  You can start with a call to APCO Real Estate division.  They may offer some guidance but as stated in another post it really comes down to a Civil Court battle.  But just to play devils advacote here are some quetions to consider.  Has the lot been oficially subdivided?  Most former APCO lots are not allowed to be split as stated.  Are you certain they are building a second permanent dwelling or could their be plans to take the the old down once the new is finished?  I've seen that happen.  Some of these answers can be found at your local courthouse if you go to the records room. But in times of Kung Flu it can be hard to get into some courthouses right now.

As MartiniMan pointed out the best course of action is to intorduce yourself to the neighbors.  I am sure you will walk away knowing all about the future plans they have.  I don't guess I've ever run across somebody that didn't like to talk about such things, especially in the midst of discussion.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Lifer, Where did that come From?
Date:	6/23/2020 9:14:44 AM

I don't live in a gated community and I have a conventant on my property.  I was merely trying to help the poster discern who they might contact.  If he does live in a gated community, then he should contact the board.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 9:24:42 AM

When we bought our already deeded property, there were restrictions as you described (didn't pay it much mind because we didn't intend to do any of those things).  The county added an additional covenent about the septic system as retribution because of a disagreement with the county between our builder, our engineering firm and the county.   

I hope for your sake that it doesn't come down to a civil legal matter, because as I understand it, the court will usually side with the property owner, unless you can prove harm to your property.  

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Lifer, Where did that come From?
Date:	6/23/2020 9:39:27 AM

I will take a little spanking over that one Hound.  I read it in a hurry earlier.  MM pointed it also in a post below.  So I'm sorry I jumped a little early on that one.  Actually belive it or not I have developed a habit of not responding to posts on a first read.  I read an entire thread or additons to the thread before responding.  I do this for a couple of reasons.  Many times what I want to say has already been said by others, most of the time more eloquently than I would have said it.  If there is a comment I want to repond to I go back a re-read it again before responding.  Today I didn't do that and responded with a snippy remark.  In re-reading my post also I realize I left out a word I intended to use and that is "occasional" elitism.  That aspect of your personallity has diminished greatly over the years but it still comes through on occasion.  I didn't mean it to be totally derogatory, but as a little jab.  It came across wrong and this is the wrong side of the forum for that anyway.  

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 9:54:37 AM

Same here regarding a lot purchased from Alabama Power.  I am told that to be considered a single dwelling it must have a contiguous (sp?) roof. so they could build a completely deparate house and connect it to the existing house via a covered walkway and it would be considered a single dwelling.

Name:	krtracker -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/23/2020 10:50:41 AM

hey martini man, your neighbor , your right we have coveyences if you want a copy let me know. ours are legal binding as l used them years ago to sue the city of dadeville for the mobile home across from you. our coveyences legally roll over when expired. sanctioned by legislator in 1978.

Name:	realfast64 -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/24/2020 5:07:13 PM

    Slippery slope you have there. When one calls on the conv. of a community you had better be ready because all of the covn. can be throwed out the window.  If one covn. has been broken in the past and nothing done to correct it then they can all be disolved!  It has happened before and will happen again.  Just depends how wadded up somebodys panties get! One covn. community might just be fixing to find this out with short term rentals.  so careful what pisses you off i might get worse than it is!

Name:	realfast64 -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/24/2020 5:07:14 PM

    Slippery slope you have there. When one calls on the conv. of a community you had better be ready because all of the covn. can be throwed out the window.  If one covn. has been broken in the past and nothing done to correct it then they can all be disolved!  It has happened before and will happen again.  Just depends how wadded up somebodys panties get! One covn. community might just be fixing to find this out with short term rentals.  so careful what pisses you off i might get worse than it is!

Name:	John C -	Reply
Subject:	Who to call?
Date:	6/24/2020 9:17:13 PM

sorry that I am just now seeing this.

First of all, I am not an attorney, only a real estate agent. So my first piece of advice would be to talk to a real estate attorney.

I stick by what I said in the post that I wrote. I think the attorney will end up telling you to notify the original entity that made the covenants upon subdivision. After that, it may be up to the other land owners that are included in your plat to notify them. But you are right, the covenants "run with the land" so they survive and apply to purchasers on down the line.