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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
The Grinch is trying to steal Christmas.
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Date:
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11/9/2011 6:44:24 PM
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If a $.15 tax is going to steal your Christmas, then you have much more to worry about than getting a fresh tree.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Sure its not a holiday tree?
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Date:
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11/9/2011 7:38:35 PM
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I am actually glad that at least they called it a Christmas tree tax instead of a holiday tree.
This is but one of many examples of why the founders wanted limited government. Only in Orwell's novels would you tax an industry making their product more expensive in order to fund a government program to promote the industry. If I were head of the program the first thing I would recommend is that they eliminate the tax and disband the government program as a way to promote the industry by making their product cheaper.
Unfortunately under the Oblamer administration the first thing they would dictate was that all tree farms and sales outlets be unionized. Then they would tell tree farms in right to work states that they can't sell trees to non-right to work states or relocate their trees to non right to work states. Then there would be regulations about the tree trunk size versus the height and only union made tree stands made by companies that got government guaranteed loans would be allowed. Of course, all workers at tree farms and sales outlets would have to undergo government sponsored training programs...and then their pensions would have to be increased. Of course, let us not forget free health insurance, short and long-term disability....... Pretty soon, that $100 tree would cost $500 unless it comes from a farm outside the U.S. in which case it would cost $150. Either way the consumer pays more, we have more employees for the SIEU, SIEU has more extorted money to spend on Dems during the election cycle and Dems get reelected.
Government, that fiction by which everyone lives at the expense of everyone else.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Grinch is trying to steal Christmas.
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Date:
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11/9/2011 9:04:32 PM (updated 11/9/2011 9:04:57 PM)
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Did you not read what the tax was supposed to support? ANOTHER government agency that would do nothing but interfere with the free market.
If the tree farmers want to promote their product they can do so. They don't need a meddlesome government agency doing it for them.
Hound, this is the type of excessive government that we rail against, not the military, police, firefighters, and teachers that you are so quick to wrongly accuse us of being against.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Grinch is trying to steal Christmas.
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Date:
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11/9/2011 9:37:52 PM
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As did I, for four years on the Air Staff, room 5B530. Many, many cold walks from North Parking until I managed to get into a carpool with a sweet parking spot in South Parking.
Apparently the experience doesn't affect everyone the same way.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
The Grinch is trying to steal Christmas.
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Date:
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11/9/2011 10:16:57 PM
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I don't accuse you of being against FF, police, etc.
My only point is that a $.15 cent tax is not going to steal anyone's Christmas, as H_Hob was trying to imply. I'm not debating the rightness or the wrongness of such a tax, how it would be implemented, what it would pay for, etc. I leave that to the those that are affected (or not), such as Christmas tree growers.
As far as how my Pentagon experience affected my view, I'm not about to discuss it with anyone who never served there. When I worked in the actual building, I was in the Army staff, so it changed my view of the Army and it's leadership. I left there in 1995, to go to an OSD agency -- in fact, two different ones. And that's what formed my opinions about what likely does or doesn't happen in DC. Working in OSD, you really get an appreciation of the politics, the Hill, the leadership, political appointees, etc, as well as how some issues will be played.
But, like being in the Military, it is unique to each person, given the time frame they worked there, where they worked, and who they dealt with, and the issues of the day.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Grinch is trying to steal Christmas.
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Date:
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11/9/2011 10:42:36 PM
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I don't argue the 15 cent tax on a $15 or $150 tree - but WHY it was proposed to be there in the first place - to support another government agency that has no need to exist.
As to the politics, since departing active duty and joining the ranks of defense contractors, I have had the "pleasure" of working on several tasks for non-DoD entities such as DHHS, Treasury, and TSA. Powers of ten worse than DoD, the political consideration inevitably trumps what is right, and I find that mode of operation utterly revolting.
And indeed, you have in the past, when someone railed about big government, used the "why don't you just do away with the military, police, firefighters, and teachers" flawed argument. I don't feel like searching the archives to find it but could if I were willing to do so.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
The Grinch is trying to steal Christmas.
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Date:
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11/9/2011 11:15:00 PM
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If I said those things, I think I was just making a point.
I'd have to do some reading up on exactly what agency would benefit and in what way in order to comment on whether this is another "takeover" of big government. I assume it came out of Agriculture.
I would agree with you about the other agencies other than DoD. I found State and Commerce to be out of touch and totally lacking in what I consider the responsibilities of a public servant. Contractors used to call me to ask me if I could get through to State and Commerce because no one would return their calls. And that's just wrong.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Police, firefighters, etc.
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Date:
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11/10/2011 12:18:52 AM
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Yeah that is the usual Democrat ploy. Isn't it amazing that the only place they seem to want to make cuts when budgets are constricted is with those that protect us? They never seem to want to cut the non-essential government employees that for the most part suck the life out of American businesses. The reason is simple. If they actually got rid of these people no one in America would miss them, the country would not only go on just fine it would actually be better off.
Democrats can't let that happen because they are addicted to the union support of their political campaigns. I maintain we could eliminate the following federal agencies and no one would know or care about it: Education, Commerce, Housing and Urban Development. We should also dramatically reduce and alter EPA, agriculture, interior, labor, health and human services and a couple of others.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Grinch is trying to steal Christmas.
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Date:
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11/10/2011 8:31:18 AM
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There will always be the tendency for folks to protect their "rice bowls" from "interlopers" who might upset the status quo - no matter what department. I've found the same to be very true within my company - which is a very large concern. Human nature is human nature, but you'll probably agree that in the military, and for the most part throughout the DoD, at least the mission usually comes first.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
The Grinch is trying to steal Christmas.
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Date:
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11/10/2011 9:02:20 AM
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That is definitely true at DOD. It's the "can do" culture. Especially in the Service Staffs. You know that if you fail to do your job, a soldier will suffer (or die). And Generals don't take "I don't know or we can't" as an answer.
When I went to OSD, it's a different environment -- less "team" more competitive. People complain about the "military/industial" complex, but they don't understand how much our military capability rests with the industrial complex. Some people at State viewed the military industry as the enemy.
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