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Name:	Lady -	Reply
Subject:	More Palin
Date:	7/11/2009 11:23:06 PM

Cut-and Paste:

This, from writer who writes a weekly column for The Wall Street Journal and was a primary speech writer and Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan. She is considered a political conservative.

A Farewell to Harms
Palin was bad for the Republicans—and the republic.
By PEGGY NOONAN

Sarah Palin's resignation gives Republicans a new opportunity to see her plain—to review the bidding, see her strengths, acknowledge her limits, and let go of her drama. It is an opportunity they should take. They mean to rebuild a great party. They need to do it on solid ground.

Her history does not need to be rehearsed at any length. Ten months ago she was embraced with friendliness by her party. The left and the media immediately overplayed their hand, with attacks on her children. The party rallied round, as a party should. She went on the trail a sensation but demonstrated in the ensuing months that she was not ready to go national and in fact never would be. She was hungry, loved politics, had charm and energy, loved walking onto the stage, waving and doing the stump speech. All good. But she was not thoughtful. She was a gifted retail politician who displayed the disadvantages of being born into a point of view (in her case a form of conservatism; elsewhere and in other circumstances, it could have been a form of liberalism) and swallowing it whole: She never learned how the other sides think, or why.

In television interviews she was out of her depth in a shallow pool. She was limited in her ability to explain and defend her positions, and sometimes in knowing them. She couldn't say what she read because she didn't read anything. She was utterly unconcerned by all this and seemed in fact rather proud of it: It was evidence of her authenticity. She experienced criticism as both partisan and cruel because she could see no truth in any of it. She wasn't thoughtful enough to know she wasn't thoughtful enough. Her presentation up to the end has been scattered, illogical, manipulative and self-referential to the point of self-reverence. "I'm not wired that way," "I'm not a quitter," "I'm standing up for our values." I'm, I'm, I'm.

In another age it might not have been terrible, but here and now it was actually rather horrifying.

McCain-Palin lost. Mrs. Palin has now stepped down, but she continues to poll high among some members of the Republican base, some of whom have taken to telling themselves Palin myths.

To wit, "I love her because she's so working-class." This is a favorite of some party intellectuals. She is not working class, never was, and even she, avid claimer of advantage that she is, never claimed to be and just lets others say it. Her father was a teacher and school track coach, her mother the school secretary. They were middle-class figures of respect, stability and local status. I think intellectuals call her working-class because they see the makeup, the hair, the heels and the sleds and think they're working class "tropes." Because, you know, that's what they teach in "Ways of the Working Class" at Yale and Dartmouth.

What she is, is a seemingly very nice middle-class girl with ambition, appetite and no sense of personal limits.

"She's not Ivy League, that's why her rise has been thwarted! She represented the democratic ideal that you don't have to go to Harvard or Brown to prosper, and her fall represents a failure of egalitarianism." This comes from intellectuals too. They need to be told something. Ronald Reagan went to Eureka College. Richard Nixon went to Whittier College, Joe Biden to the University of Delaware. Sarah Palin graduated in the end from the University of Idaho, a school that happily notes on its Web site that it's included in U.S. News & World Report's top national schools survey. They need to be told, too, that the first Republican president was named "Abe," and he went to Princeton and got a Fulbright. Oh wait, he was an impoverished backwoods autodidact!

America doesn't need Sarah Palin to prove it was, and is, a nation of unprecedented fluidity. Her rise and seeming fall do nothing to prove or refute this.

"The elites hate her." The elites made her. It was the elites of the party, the McCain campaign and the conservative media that picked her and pushed her. The base barely knew who she was. It was the elites, from party operatives to public intellectuals, who advanced her and attacked those who said she lacked heft. She is a complete elite confection. She might as well have been a bonbon.

"She makes the Republican Party look inclusive." She makes the party look stupid, a party of the easily manipulated.

"She shows our ingenuous interest in all classes." She shows your cynicism.

"Now she can prepare herself for higher office by studying up, reading in, boning up on the issues." Mrs. Palin's supporters have been ordering her to spend the next two years reflecting and pondering. But she is a ponder-free zone. She can memorize the names of the presidents of Pakistan, but she is not going to be able to know how to think about Pakistan. Why do her supporters not see this? Maybe they think "not thoughtful" is a working-class trope!

"The media did her in." Her lack of any appropriate modesty did her in. Actually, it's arguable that membership in the self-esteem generation harmed her. For 30 years the self-esteem movement told the young they're perfect in every way. It's yielding something new in history: an entire generation with no proper sense of inadequacy.

"Turning to others means the media won!" No, it means they lose. What the mainstream media wants is not to kill her but to keep her story going forever. She hurts, as they say, the Republican brand, with her mess and her rhetorical jabberwocky and her careless causing of division. Really, she is the most careless sower of discord since George W. Bush, who fractured the party and the movement that made him. Why wouldn't the media want to keep that going?

Here's why all this matters. The world is a dangerous place. It has never been more so, or more complicated, more straining of the reasoning powers of those with actual genius and true judgment. This is a time for conservative leaders who know how to think.

Here are a few examples of what we may face in the next 10 years: a profound and prolonged American crash, with the admission of bankruptcy and the spread of deep social unrest; one or more American cities getting hit with weapons of mass destruction from an unknown source; faint glimmers of actual secessionist movements as Americans for various reasons and in various areas decide the burdens and assumptions of the federal government are no longer attractive or legitimate.

The era we face, that is soon upon us, will require a great deal from our leaders. They had better be sturdy. They will have to be gifted. There will be many who cannot, and should not, make the cut. Now is the time to look for those who can. And so the Republican Party should get serious, as serious as the age, because that is what a grown-up, responsible party—a party that deserves to lead—would do.

It's not a time to be frivolous, or to feel the temptation of resentment, or the temptation of thinking next year will be more or less like last year, and the assumptions of our childhoods will more or less reign in our future. It won't be that way.

We are going to need the best.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	More Palin
Date:	7/12/2009 3:51:43 PM

I like Peggy Noonan. She's frequently a guest on Morning Joe and I've found her to be insightful.
I think she is right about Sarah Palin.

Karen Hughes was on Meet the Press this Morning. You may recall she was a main political strategist for GWB. Very impressive woman. She said she "loved" Sarah Palin, but it was apparent that she wasn't going to go so far as to say she thought Sarah Palin should be nominated in 2012.

I personally believe that Palin will write her book, and stump the rubber chicken circuit, but when 2012 rolls around, she'll be MIA when nominations are being discussed. For the reasons that Peggy Noonan states among others.

Name:	alahusker -	Reply
Subject:	Palin hatred runs deep
Date:	7/12/2009 3:52:49 PM

and no one is giving it up.. On Meet the Press today, Dave Gregory badgered McCaine about his VP choice to a point of absurdity, Tim Russert would have been embarrassed.. .. Nevertheless, I concede, she was not ready for prime time. Now can just one social liberal concede that she is an accomplished, attractive, family oriented individual who had a vision for the country and was willing to pursue it?? She lost, I'm over it.. Hope y'all can join me soon..

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Palin hatred runs deep
Date:	7/12/2009 3:57:21 PM

I can concede that point. But, everyone who has a vision for the country and a willing to pursue it is what the country needs. You could put Barack Obama in that same category and look how many people are against him.

Name:	alahusker -	Reply
Subject:	That's the distinction,
Date:	7/12/2009 4:22:06 PM

I'm not against Barack Obama, in fact I'm proud that this Country finally elected a minority President. I just don't agree with his vision for the direction of the Nation.. Palin is the object of borderline/outright hatred, not because of her vision, but because of something else I don't understand.. Still searching for that answer..

Name:	Lady -	Reply
Subject:	That's the distinction,
Date:	7/12/2009 5:45:31 PM

I will try again to answer your question.
1 - She does not seem to be very intelligent.
2 - She has an unexcusible lack of knowledge and it doesn't appear that she has interest in gaining any.
3 - Her demeanor shows her beauty-queen background, which I feel she thinks is all she needs.
4 - She seems very egocentric.
5 - She has made so many false statements.
6 - She is surrounded by scandals.
7 - Her speeches and comments are often unintelligible.
8 - There are many other more qualified people (men and women).

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	That's the distinction,
Date:	7/12/2009 6:13:57 PM

All I can say is that Palin's popularity (I know how you love polls) has conistently been very high and higher than Obama at times. Just like Obama, Palin's approval and popularity is still very high but lower than before.

BUT!!! What is it that scares you liberals about her that even now you have to keep posting about her. The race is over, she is no longer governor and most likely will not run again. But you are still so focused on her (much more than republicans) so all that tells me is that you must view her as some threat or you would not keep posting about her.

Whats the point .... the real problem is who is in office now and the destruction of this country. It gets worse everyday.

Now he is saying it will take "two years" for the stimulus to have an impact. Tell the 10% unemployed to hang in there as things will get better in a couple years.

Who with even a half of brain would spend close to $800 billion of tax payer money and they say it will take two years to have an impact.

Bush inherited a very bad recession from Clinton, had a severe terrorist attack and was growing jobs in 6 - 9 months. Without having to spend $800 billion. The thing about tax cuts ... it lowers revenue, but have close to an immediate impact ... and as it starts to work, revenues increase from job and business growth.

Obama spends, spends spends, and it has the effect of "delaying" the recovery, including job growth.

We are going to be in such deep $hit by the end of his term it will take a lot to dig us out. Carter did the same to us, this will be worse. All we can hope for is we find another Regan.

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	Seems to me That...
Date:	7/12/2009 6:15:02 PM

the Election of 2008 demonstrated that voters were ready for a minority President, but they are NOT ready for a WOMAN in high elected office.
Palin has been crucified by media from day one, and it continues, even after defeat.
Hillary Clinton?? Where did she go? She has disappeared. Her credentials/experience/intelligence is so far above Obama that it becomes a mystery to me why she was not chosen??
Is it because she is a stern-faced, forceful Woman?
My oh my, what waits in 2012?

Name:	alahusker -	Reply
Subject:	Whatever, you hate her
Date:	7/12/2009 7:00:57 PM

because she's stupid, inarticulate and just an evil person.. She has never accomplished a thing in her life and now she's history.. Can we just kick her and her family a couple more times and move on??

Name:	Lady -	Reply
Subject:	Whatever, you hate her
Date:	7/12/2009 7:17:57 PM

I meant to give you a sincere answer and I thought I did. I never said she was evil, nor did I say she never accomplished a thing in her life. Of course she's not evil and she was able to accomplish quite a lot. And I NEVER kicked her family. What I wanted to do was to respond to your question of why she was not liked. Obviously, I wasn't able to make myself clear and will be unable to do so, I suspect. But I did not 'trash' her so please re-read my post.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	More Palin
Date:	7/12/2009 7:45:59 PM

Why are you so concerned about Sarah Palin? Barack Obama is President, Joe Biden is Vice-President and Nancy Pelosi is third in waiting. Throw in Dingy Harry and those are the ones you should be concerned about...they're running the show, not Sarah.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Whatever, you hate her
Date:	7/12/2009 7:47:32 PM

but why do you even care? Why does it STILL matter to you?

It is like you can not let it go for some reason. The election is over ... you have MUCH bigger things to worry about with you you did vote for.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	and ....
Date:	7/12/2009 7:48:50 PM

and BTW ... I still say sarah has more common sense intellegence and has accomplished much much more than Obama has or probably ever will.

Name:	alahusker -	Reply
Subject:	Getting there girl,
Date:	7/12/2009 8:00:27 PM

you don't hate her, just don't like her. Gottcha.. I like Obama for what he has accomplished to get where he is -- speaks well for him as a person and this Nation. I just think he is wrong headed in the direction he is leading.. I also believe he has a beautiful family that should be left out of the political debate.. Agree here?? Same apply to Palin's??

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Now WW
Date:	7/12/2009 10:09:16 PM

Don't jump off the cliff. We know you don't like Obama, but you don't have to go overboard here.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Seems to me That...
Date:	7/12/2009 10:18:49 PM

I do think that it is still hard for people to accept a woman as President. I think that there is a segment of the female population that finds the idea difficult. In a way, for the same reason a lot of people still don't think a woman belongs in combat.

As for me, the gender doesn't matter (I certainly wouldn't vote for a woman SOLELY because she is a woman), the race doesn't matter, the religion doesn't matter. Age is a consideration for me, because I think energy - physical and mental - is important.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Getting there girl,
Date:	7/12/2009 10:24:01 PM

I don't think Palin's family should be fodder. Any sane person would find what Letterman did was unthinkable. Part of it is that her daughter Bristol's ex-boyfriend/fiance seems to be unable to stay off the media. And I think there is something in Palin that wanted to exploit the media frenzy. I do think there is something in the woman that wants to seek out the attention -- not to say that she is the only person in politics who does this.

Name:	JustAGuy -	Reply
Subject:	More Palin
Date:	7/12/2009 11:02:52 PM

For me, the relevant point of this article is that this is Peggy Noonan talking. I have always liked Peggy Noonan. She is an excellent writer, and I love words. She wrote many of Reagan's most poignant speeches (and yes, I voted for Reagan twice). She wrote some of GHW Bush's best speeches (thousand points of light, kinder-gentler).

I think she is spot on. The Republicans need to bring up their best thinkers to face the problems that are coming our way in the years ahead. I WANT to support a Republican candidate, but it has to be the BEST that the Republican party has to offer.

I thought of a good analogy today that sums up my feelings. I think Bob Riley has done a great job as governor of Alabama. He has faced some tough problems and overall I think he has done a good job. But I don't think Gov. Riley would be a good candidate for Vice President (or President). And I feel the same way about Gov. Palin. I don't hate her. I don't even dislike her. I just feel that she was thrust onto a national stage for which she was not prepared.

Again, I hope that Republicans will listen to Peggy Noonan, one of their own, and try to find the very best Republican minds to face the problems coming our way.

Name:	JustAGuy -	Reply
Subject:	More Palin
Date:	7/12/2009 11:16:34 PM

au67 .... I don't want to speak for Lady .... but for myself, I hope that the Republican Party will come with strong candidates in 2012 ... and I don't think Sarah Palin fits the bill. I voted for Reagan, and GHW Bush ... I hope the Republican Party can bring it's best and brightest in 2012, and I simply don't think Sarah Palin fits the bill. I don't hate her. I don't think she is evil, I just think (and hope) we can do better.

My two cents ...

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Hound
Date:	7/13/2009 7:18:45 AM

You are right that i do not like Obama ... only for the reason I stated. He has not accomplished anything that I feel has been good policy. I realize everyone likes his speahes and it all sounds good when he says it ... but the reality does not seem to deliver.

Palin on the other hand ... everyone talks about that she does not seem intelligent, she has screwed up some interviews and speaches .... BUT the reality is that there is a long list of accomlishments in every position she has held that have resulted in growth, lower taxes, balanced budget, more jobs.

When push comes the shove ... Isn't that what we want from our elected leaders? Not just good speaches? We want results.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Unsupported statements
Date:	7/13/2009 9:04:49 AM

What have you accomplished in your life? I can bet not one tenth of what Sarah Palin has and the only reason you hate her is she has accomplished so much on an anti-feminist approach. She actually has the babies she conceives rather than aborting them because they are inconvenient. She is beautiful and successful and nothing incites hatred or derision from fat, ugly liberal feminists or northeast elitists like Peggy Noonan (a RINO snob of the tenth order and someone that has become mentally unhinged of late) than that. She speaks plainly and makes so much sense that she must be destroyed.

Your statements are uninformed opinions and I would love to put you in a room with Sarah Palin to debate world views. I can guarantee she would destroy you because you believe so much that just isn't true. I hope Sarah Palin doesn't go away just so she can terrorize liberals like you and Hound. And to think you and Hound actually voted for Joe Biden and have the nerve to criticize Sarah Palin. What chutzpah!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	More Palin
Date:	7/13/2009 9:08:51 AM

Of course you like Peggy Noonan. She is your typical northeast, intellectual, elitist, snob RINO. I could care less if she wrote speeches for Ronald Reagan. Her writing and opinions have devolved over the last five or six years to the point where she is just wrong on so much. I don't know why liberals find it so important to find alleged conservatives that write something they agree with as if that justifies their views. If you are wrong about so much like liberals are then just finding some useful idiot RINO that agrees with you doesn't make you right.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	You too
Date:	7/13/2009 9:43:06 AM

are jumping off the cliff here. You are making some broad sweeping, emotional accusations.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You did vote for Biden, yes?
Date:	7/13/2009 10:48:39 AM

I assume your ballot included Biden so you voted for him. I stand by my critique of feminists that hate Sarah Palin.

Name:	Lady -	Reply
Subject:	and ....
Date:	7/13/2009 3:24:05 PM

Palin supporters seem to find Sarah an icon of working-class America even though the Palins’ combined reported income ($211,000) puts them in the top 3.6 percent of American households. They see her as a champion of conservative fiscal principles even though she said yes to the Bridge to Nowhere and presided over a state that ranks No.1 in federal pork. I could care less about her personal life but Palin backed abstinence-only education. Abstinence-only did not work for her (Track Palin was born 7 months and 3 weeks after Sarah's elopement) nor did it work for her daughter. (Again, that's their business, but it appears that Sarah says one thing and lives another). And she told America to "respect her daughter's decision to keep her baby," while at the same time supporting legislation that would have denied her daughter the ability to make that choice and would have the government make it for her. Very hypocritical...

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	and where do you classify ...
Date:	7/13/2009 4:41:27 PM

Obama's $3 million income before he took office? Of course that was not hard earned like Palin's $211,000. Part of Obama's was the $900,000 Michelle was paid for the job she never had to show up for. Can you say government influence.

You are too much ... you want to paint Sarah as a high income person so she is not for the common working man ... when look at Obama and his wife, private schools for them and their children even in Chicago (government education is not good enough for them but want it to be for everyone else that can't afford private education). Michelle with her $600 tennis shoes and $2,000 purse.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	and ...
Date:	7/13/2009 4:53:50 PM

I would say that republicans care more about the common man than democrats ... republicans don't talk about creating jobs in a recession ... they do it. Republicans want to reduce taxes for everyone, and not redistribute wealth.

Do you view caring as more handouts? If you were to ask individuals that get government subsidies would they rather have a real job with opportunities to improve or more government handouts ... a very high majority would want the job.

That is one of the biggest differences from a fiscal standpoint between conservatives and liberals ... the liberals just want bigger government and more programs and spending ... while conservatives want to create jobs and opportunities for people to succeed and provide for themselves. And of course tax them less so they can keep the rewards of their personal success.

Name:	Lady -	Reply
Subject:	and where do you classify ...
Date:	7/13/2009 4:58:06 PM

Alahusker asked why some people do not seem to like Sarah Palin. I answered the question. No one asked me to compare Obama to Palin. No one asked me to compare Sarah to Michelle. I answered the question asked. So, if you're going to respond to my posts, why not respond to some of my answers and not turn the discussion.

Name:	alahusker -	Reply
Subject:	Lady, I'm not shot in the butt
Date:	7/13/2009 5:50:58 PM

with Palin.. she was a desperate, showcase alternative in the last election.. I held my nose and voted for McCain.. Had it been Romney, I would have voted with gusto..

However, comma, I did agree with her vision, of course it coincides with mine.. I respect her accomplishments and have no reason to think that those accomplishments were the result of being stupid. And I still have the feeling that Liberals just want to destroy her..

Case in point, Hardball is now trashing here as we speak (7/13/09 @ 4:45 pm) Chris Matthews despises her as much as many liberal women.. Still don't get it.. Can't they get over her?? I did..

Name:	Lady -	Reply
Subject:	Lady, I'm not shot in the butt
Date:	7/13/2009 6:26:30 PM

Would you tell me what you think her vision is? I don't agree that she has accomplished all that much. As far as I can tell, her resume now consists of a stint as a small-town mayor (town about 2 1/2 times the size of Dadeville) and a failed vice presidential candidate, and she can't even add the credential of one-term governor of a state with fewer people than Delaware. I don't think liberals want to destroy her. It just is inconceivable to many liberals what the attraction is. For example, Sarah explained that continuing to "plod along" as governor would be "the quitter's way out." Meaning that she's quitting because she's not a quitter? Huh? And, as far as voting, if it had been Romney, I probably would have voted for him, too.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Lady, I'm not shot in the butt
Date:	7/13/2009 6:55:51 PM

Since so many of the people who continually and viciously berate Palin are liberal women, could her looks be the real issue?

Name:	alahusker -	Reply
Subject:	Ok, Ok... I will restate
Date:	7/13/2009 7:11:43 PM

what I said before.. she was not ready for prime time, and a last minute, desperate attempt to elect a weak GOP nominee..

Plus you win the debate, since none of the following is a vision, so my bad....

But do you really hate me since I think she is an accomplished female, not stupid, believes in conversative principles, likes to hunt/fish, has strong family values and is a member of NRA?? (And kinda good looking..)

My last post re Ms. Palin.. y'all go where you want.. So how about the economy, Afganistan and North Korea??

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	and where do you classify ...
Date:	7/13/2009 10:47:37 PM

WW -- I'm really surprised by your comments about the Obamas, considering how proud you are of your accomplishments and possessions. I'm not condemning you, but you have stated on a number of occassions that people should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labors. Michelle Obama was a highly paid lawyer and she doesn't come from a blue collar background, so what is your point, exactly.

And BTW, Sarah Palin doesn't come from a "common background" either. She comes from a solidly middle class background. Believe her father was a school principle and her mother worked as a secretary.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	HUH???
Date:	7/13/2009 10:50:31 PM

You say WHAT??? I've heard some cock-eyed thoughts in my time, but I think yours may be at the top of my list.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	You'll have to define
Date:	7/13/2009 10:56:56 PM

"feminist" for me. If you are talking about women that believe they are on an equal footing with men, that they should be paid equal pay for equal work, and don't have to depend on a man for their identity, then I guess I'm a feminist.

And for the umpteenth time, I don't "hate" Sarah Palin, I just don't want her to be President because I think she is stupid at worst, totally uninformed at best.

MM -- sometimes I really wonder about you. These "feminist" comments really tick me off.

Name:	lamont -	Reply
Subject:	wow....
Date:	7/14/2009 8:49:58 AM

An educator and a secretary. That's some big bucks, right? What a pampered life she must have lived.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	HUH???
Date:	7/14/2009 9:11:04 AM

It's exhilarating to be be #1 on your list!

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	HUH???
Date:	7/14/2009 11:04:03 AM

Sorry for the hiccup in my previous response...probably due to my cockeyed condition.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Lady, I'm not shot in the butt
Date:	7/14/2009 12:38:00 PM

I think it is probably just a diversionary tactic - they don't want to talk about their candidate's attempts to systematically dismantle everything this country has stood for over the past 2 1/3 centuries...

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Not big bucks
Date:	7/14/2009 3:14:18 PM

but not exactly blue collar either. Middle class.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Not big bucks
Date:	7/14/2009 3:33:24 PM

Please define "Middle Class". That is thrown around so much -- and I honestly believe what most people are referring to when they say "Middle Class" is actually what we used to refer to as the Lower Class (economically, anyway).

So, someone please define Middle Class. Chances are we will get as many differing definitions as we do responders.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Not big bucks
Date:	7/14/2009 4:04:59 PM

My opinion:

Low class is more of a way of behaving.

Low income are those that work in minimum wage jobs or low paying jobs -- usually blue collar -- but not involving trade jobs that require specialized training or an apprenticeship.

Middle class becomes much more difficult, because I think there are 3 levels -- lower middle class, middle middle class and upper middle class. It really covers a lot of ground.

But, I get your point. I guess I would say in the way of Palin is that her father obviously went to college and had a good paying career. And her Mom worked, which means that they were a dual income family. So not "poor".

Name:	NCSue -	Reply
Subject:	Not big bucks
Date:	7/14/2009 5:33:33 PM

They may have been considered upper middle class in their community where they would not have been in wealthier areas of the country.

Name:	lamont -	Reply
Subject:	Wow.....
Date:	7/15/2009 8:21:00 AM

Mom and Dad both working. That's a novel concept. Even with both working, $200,000 is a far cry from 3 million. I'll go a step further, $200,000 is a good income but, certainly not "upper" class when raising kids, paying a mortgage, paying for educations, etc. I just hate it when people have to work to make a living. So unfair.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You'll have to define
Date:	7/17/2009 9:55:50 AM

I should clarify what I mean by feminist because by your definition I am also a feminist. I am talking about women who are rabid, man hating activists. I am talking about women with an agenda that causes them to lie and distort. I am talking about women that belong to liberal political groups like NOW that are only interested in the rights of a certain kind of woman, which is of course a liberal woman. Rush Limbaugh calls them Feminazi's but I hesitate to use that term because he is so polarizing.

I definitely don't include you in that category based on what I know of you from your posts. A woman that does the same job as a man should be paid equally. Having said that, a woman that makes a decision to balance their career and home life should not expect equal pay or equal consideration for career advancement with a man that puts more into their job and vice versa. All the stats about women being undercompensated are baloney. That is not say there aren't cases where women are underpaid but the same could be said for many men Thomas Sowell has a great chapter on this in his book Economic Facts and Fallacies.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	And yet you voted for Biden
Date:	7/17/2009 9:58:57 AM

I just don't get the clear contradiction. You don't want Sarah Palin because you think she is stupid and yet you put a complete moron a heartbeat away. If you are a person who prays, you should pray every day that Obama stays healthy.

By the way, the latest Biden line was "If we don't spend more we are going to end up bankrupt". I am going to write a book called Stupid Biden Tricks. It will be a 3 volume set.

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