Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	What to expect as we re-open
Date:	4/16/2020 11:08:04 AM

I sure hope the Governors and President Trump properly manage expectations as they relax the shelter in place rules.  One thing we should expect based on the rationale for the orders in the first place is an increase in cases and most likely deaths.  If they do not explain this clearly to the American people and make it front and center with the govt media we will be faced with a parade of horror stories by the media blaming them for each and every one of them....well, they will only blame GOP Governors and the President.  There will be a price to be paid for re-opening the economy and people need to understand that and accept that reality.  To think or believe otherwise is foolish and naive.  

And to be very clear, the issue here is one of voluntary versus involuntary risk.  Human nature being what it is we tend to accept all sorts of voluntary risk and tend to react very badly regarding presumed involuntary risk. For example, people accept all sorts of significant voluntary risk like smoking, drinking alcohol, listening to left wing nuts like Goofy and so on.  Smoking significantly increases the risk of heart disease and cancer as does alcohol abuse.  So these risks are on the order of 1 in 3 but people accept those risks all the time.  But when you talk about involuntary risks like exposure to chemicals in drinking water risks on the order of 1 in a million they completely freak out.  They will likely view the Wuhan virus as an involuntary risk even though their personal actions do more to lead to exposure than anything else.  They will not see it this way and will look to blame someone else.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	What to expect as we re-open
Date:	4/16/2020 12:57:29 PM

Not only do they need to prepare Americans for what will happen, they need to do the re-opening very slowly.  From all accounts, no one in the financial world things we are going to bounce back from this quickly.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	What to expect as we re-open
Date:	4/16/2020 1:16:27 PM

What I think will happen is there will be lots of different paces of re-opening between states.  Some will open quickly and others will take forever.  Will be interesting to see if there's any difference in outcomes between the states.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	What to expect as we re-open
Date:	4/16/2020 1:42:01 PM (updated 4/16/2020 1:45:07 PM)

Why can we not reopen just as quickly as we shut down??? The American people have always adapted to and handled numerous and deadly adversities throughout our history, and without the need for government control of our every waking (and sleeping) hour.  Remove the freedom choking constraints that have been placed around our necks, face the realities of death which occurs on a daily basis (well before coronavirus), let us go back to work and MAGA!!!  To hell with the Democrats, the Democrat media, the deep state, the spineless RINOs...the American workers and entrepreneurs are the economic engine of this country.  Crank her up!!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	What to expect as we re-open
Date:	4/16/2020 2:43:08 PM (updated 4/16/2020 3:02:52 PM)

I agree with you.  If people think that having an economic depression won't be worse than the Wuhan virus they are completely insane.  For context, 40,000 people committed suicide during the Great Depression when our population was 1/3rd its current size.  Extrapolate that to today's population and that is over 100,000 people.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	What to expect as we re-open
Date:	4/16/2020 3:03:16 PM

You guys remind me of what John Kenneth Galbraith wrote: "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	JKG is not a good source here
Date:	4/16/2020 3:35:51 PM (updated 4/16/2020 4:08:38 PM)

Yeah....I wouldn't be quoting a failed economist who was pretty much wrong about everything. 

This isn't about selfishness.  This is about destroying the economic well being of tens if not hundreds of millions of American citizens.  Only a cold hearted, amoral person would not care about that......so there you go.  Which camp are you in? 

How many people who lose their jobs, their homes, their life savings will be enough for you?  How many people who commit suicide out of despair will be enough for you?  How many marriages destroyed due to the economic distress will be enough for you?  How many children and spouses abused by their significant other who is stressed over losing their job and economic ruin is enough for you?  How many people that end up addicted to alcohol and drugs due to economic despair will be enough for you?

Goofy, I grew up in SW PA in the 70's and I remember well all those things when the economy tanked under the Peanut farmer and coal mines, steel mills and other manufacturing companies went out of business and laid everyone off.  I remember the suicides, divorces, alcoholism and drug abuse, etc. very well.  You seem to see this entirely one dimensionally while those of us with real compassion see all the dimensions of what is happening here.

Oh, I also forgot to add that my business is essential and while our revenue has been off we are nowhere near as impacted as many other businesses and so far have not had to add to the 22 million people now unemployed as a result of this with many more to come if we don't come to our senses.  So my "selfishness" is actually compassion for others.  Where is yours?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	And another thing to consider
Date:	4/16/2020 5:05:46 PM

Because I anticipate you trying to use deaths in exchange for the economy let me preempt you.  The reality is we do that every single day.  Let me repeat.  Every country in the world exchanges lives for economic activity and they do it every single day!!!  

According to recent data, over 50,000 people are killed each year in work-related accidents.  And that doesn't include vehicle deaths every year of people driving to and from work.  And it doesn't include the 5,000 people who die each year in collisions with tractor trailer trucks carrying our food and other necessities and luxuries.  And that doesn't include those that die each year from work stress related illnesses like heart disease, stroke, etc.  And it doesn't count the military deaths that occur each year to secure our freedom to conduct economic activity. 

So don't even bother with that fallacious line of thinking because it is just plain wrong.  We make those tradeoffs every minute of every day because the alternative of no economic activity would mean the death of almost everyone.  Someone risked their life to build your Florida retirement home, your food and clothes, your BMW SUV and on and on.  And you are fine with that, right?  You recognize there is a tradeoff, right?  Or are you completely naive and obstuse?

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	I am not obese
Date:	4/16/2020 6:50:41 PM

But we will see how the states allow things to back.  For instance, will Ivey please let me get a haircut?  

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	I am not obese
Date:	4/16/2020 8:24:38 PM

I hear you on the haircut.  I had needed one badly for a few weeks.  Finally, I asked my wife if she would do it and she agreed.  So she brought out the old Wahl clippers that she used to use on our sons when they were little and before I could see the carnage, it was too late.  We had agreed that she would use an 8-guard to start, but she accidentially put on a 3 guard instead.  Sorta like being about 150 yards in front of the green and accidentially pulling out your 4 wood instead of your 8 iron.  It suffices to say that I haven't had hair this short since my military days.  I think I should be good until flu-season.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Haircuts
Date:	4/17/2020 9:25:12 AM

I think a lot of us are thinking that maybe barbers and hair stylists are essential.  I don't color my hair, but a lot of women I know do - lots of talk about covering the roots before they can be seen in public.  I know I plan to give my stylist a big fat tip when I see him again.