Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/28/2020 8:41:06 PM (updated 4/28/2020 8:49:44 PM)

Pence diplays his stupidity at the Mayo Clinic. Is there anyone who wants to defend him? Wear a mask and 6 feet away!!!!!! Set an example.

 "Vice President Mike Pence, who leads the White House's coronavirus task force, did not wear a mask while touring the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, despite being informed that wearing a mask is part of the clinic's policy." He said he wanted to look them in the eye.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/28/2020 8:57:43 PM

So if he is the ONLY one not wearing a mask what is the issue?  How is the virus transmission going to take place?  And oh, by the way, he gets tested frequently and is COVID19-free.  So he is not a risk to anyone.  Actually represents courage on his part to risk getting it, probably because he accepts risk as part of his job.  Weak, Goofy.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/28/2020 9:23:58 PM

SET AN EXAMPLE......what example is he setting? Why is he the only one  without a mask? Why didn't the others follow since he is the VP of the USA? Are you wearing a mask or are you the Macho Man?

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/28/2020 11:51:55 PM

My Bovine Shinola meter just pegged.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/29/2020 8:57:28 AM

Goofy, I don't wear a mask not because I am macho, but because I understand the science and I am never anywhere that I would need one.  If I went into a hopsital with Wuhan virus patients I would certainly wear a mask and it would be N95 or above.  You do realize that the masks the people in this photo are wearing are typical surgical masks, right?  They are not N95 respirators.  Let me provide you with an education on masks from a reliable source.  And yes, we are in the Wuhan virus decon business so we are following this carefully.

Purpose or Intended Use
Surgical masks

• May include masks labeled as surgical, laser, isolation, dental, or medical procedure masks
• Are primarily intended to protect the patient, not the wearer, from the wearer's saliva and respiratory secretions
• May also help protect the wearer against exposure to microorganisms, body fluids, and large particles in the air but are not tight fitting and likely have substantial inward leakage for particles and organisms
• Are designed to cover the mouth and nose loosely but are not sized for individual fit
• Are not NIOSH (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health) approved

Surgical N95 respirators

• Surgical N95 respirators are designed to reduce but cannot eliminate the wearer’s exposure to airborne biological contaminants. They do not eliminate the risk of illness, disease, or death.
• Form a tight seal over the mouth and nose.
• Require fit-testing and must be adjusted to your face to provide the intended effectiveness of filtering 95 percent of particles with a mass median diameter of 0.3 micrometers.
• Employers and users are required to follow the OSHA Respiratory Protection Standard, 29CFR 1910.134, as well as other state or local regulations, as appropriate.
• Have specific use instructions, warnings, and limitations for use in health care environments.
• Are NIOSH certified.
• Are fluid resistant to a certified level measured against a stream of artificial blood directed at the respirator.

So assuming you can think logically, which is a huge assumption, you will realize that wearing typical surgical masks is intended to prevent you from exposing others.  If the VPOTUS is Wuhan virus free then he doesn't need to wear one, especially given that all the others in the room are wearing them to protect him from exposure.  Think critically Goofy....think before you post.  Hodja is right....bovine excrement.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	As well it should
Date:	4/29/2020 9:03:54 AM

Goofy justs repeats left wing talking point nonsense and has zero ability to think critically or even a remote incentive to do some very basic research.  This whole thing with masks is providing people with a false sense of security.  As I told Hound, if it makes you feel better then by all means wear one.  It provides very little protection and as long as you follow all the other CDC guidelines you are going to be fine.  But if you wear some homemade mask or even a surgical one you need to understand that it provides very little protection.  And if you think wearing one allows you to violate the other guidelines you will be in for a very unpleasant surprise.

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/29/2020 10:08:39 AM

My wife and I went to Costco yesterday to get some groceries and were told by the greeter that, effective next Monday, all customers will need to wear a mask or they will not be allowed into the store (we were not wearing a mask).  This was at the store in Montgomery; however, I assume this policy applies to all stores company-wide.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/29/2020 10:15:30 AM

I wonder how much of this is to protect people and how much is to reduce liability should someone assert that they caught the virus as a result of vendor (Costco, Publix, etc) "negligence".  Hopefully the former but no doubt the later is a strong consideration as well.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/29/2020 10:43:10 AM

I guarantee that it is CYA.  As much as I hate to admit it, we are going to provide the nearly meaningless surgical masks to employees that start to work out of the office again.  Won't be mandatory that they wear them but social distancing and no big groups will be.  We will also be measuring their temps when they come in.  All this was recommended by our insurance risk management group to avoid litigation.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/29/2020 10:43:17 AM

Callifornia has already introduced a bill to allow "essential" workers who come down with the 'rona can file workers comp claims.  Piglosi will be rushing make it federal law too.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Even FLY would agree...this is stupid
Date:	4/29/2020 12:27:08 PM

The CDC recommends covering your nose and mouth with a mask.  When people can't take personal responsibility for their own good, then rules have to be made.  MM, of course you are right - the N-95 and a medical grade respirator provide the most protection for those that are dealing with sick people.  And given that there has been a shortage, I'm more than willing to let those medical people have whatever is available as a priority.  For weeks, I have been wearing a mask.  At first it was an N-95, because we happened to have one that had never been used, but now I am down to homemade masks that meet the CDC standards when I go out into public.  I can't swear that it works, but if it provides me a bit more protection than nothing, then I'm okay with that.  

Yes, stores may be doing a CYA for liability reasons.  It makes sense.  But I would rather shop in a store that requires reasonable precautions than just allowing people in nilly-willy.  Almost everyone I know feels like they are taking a risk when they go into Walmart. I really don't want to shop in the same store with those of you who aren't wearing a mask, because if you refuse to follow that CDC guideline, I don't know if you are following their guidelines to wash your hands frequently or if you are wiling to social distance.  it's not personal, but I don't think the CDC is just making stuff up.  And I don't want to get sick.  Maybe you don't care if you get sick or not, or believe that you are invincible.  I know I am not and I don't want to put myself or my husband at risk.  Yesterday I was at Costco in Montgomery and had to remind a woman to please social distance when she was practically on top of me, looking at meat.  

As far as Pence is concerned, in my opinion he should have worn a mask.  It doesn't matter that he knows he is not infected, but he was in a hospital environment.  Also, good leaders set an example.  You don't tell people to cover your nose and mouth and then don't follow this yourself.  He didn't want to wear a mask, because it can be hard for people to understand you when you talk, when you are wearing a mask.  For all I know, Trump has forbid his staff from wearing masks, likely because he sees the mask as a reminder that this virus is out there, even though he is wishing it weren't so.  

I am not cowering at home in fear.  I realize that I am making personal choices which is what responsible people do, not just what is good for me, but good for the community at large.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 12:48:54 PM

Like I said, you should do what makes you feel safe.  As for me, I won't bother wearing a useless mask just to make you feel better.  I will wear one if there is a place that requires them and I need to go there.  Not because I think it's helpful but because it will be the rules of the road so to speak.  And I for sure support getting available N95 and above masks to health care providers who really need them.  Regardless of the mask issue, I am taking all the other precautions very seriously.  I've washed my hands more in the last 2 months than probably in the preceding 2 years.  I also maintain social distancing.  And a very big one for me is to be extra cautious at the gas pumps.  I wipe down everything, wear a glove and then wipe my hands after I'm done.  That is one place I am very paranoid.  

I will say this about the concern about getting the virus.  I obviously have no interest in getting this or any other virus or the flu.  But I am not any more concerned about the Wuhan virus than I am about any of the other viruses.  At the end of this flu season and once we have more widespread antibody testing we are going to see the Wuhan virus mortality rate to be about the same as the flu.  I am not obese and I don't have any other co-morbidities that are common to those that die from this or any other influenza (COPD, diabetes, etc.).  But my 87-year old Mom who lives with us does so I am extra careful. 

I just happen to know these silly masks do nothing other than make people feel better. If it makes you feel better to stay away from someone not wearing a mask I would encourage you to do so.  It won't make you any safer but peace of mind is very important and I would never criticize you for doing so.  I do think people driving around by themselves in a car wearing a mask and gloves are stupid but it probably makes them feel better so have at it.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 1:53:51 PM (updated 4/29/2020 2:09:28 PM)

"And a very big one for me is to be extra cautious at the gas pumps.  I wipe down everything, wear a glove and then wipe my hands after I'm done.  That is one place I am very paranoid."

Don't be so cheap...wear a glove on each hand and discard them in the trash can next to the pump when you are finished.

Steps I follow... Put on gloves, lower car window, take out credit card, insert card with left hand, punch keys with right hand, remove card and drop through car window, pump gas, remove gloves and discard. Pick up card from seat and return to wallet.

As to Pence, maybe, the "patient" was not really a patient but staged. I can't see all those with surgical masks exposing themselves to an actual patient in a hospital setting. You can defend it but think....it was stupid if it was an actual patient. The mask the patient is wearing, as you explained,  provides little protection. With all the suits in the room, it looked like Jong and his Generals taking notes. Call it Bull Sh*t but it belittles healthcare professionals who seek out masks. It tells them they are overreacting....as Pence shows the way.

You need to think of others...you may have the virus and not know it. Yet, unless required you won't wear a mask. Think MM, you could  pass it on to others and not realize it.

STAY SAFE  and take care of your mom.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 2:15:32 PM

If it is just a feel good measure, then why is the CDC recommending it?  I have recently asked some of my medical friends about testing.  We are told that massive increases in testing is the key. Yet:

You won't be tested unless you have symptoms.  But as is the case with a lot of contagious diseases, you can be contagious before you are actually showing symptoms.  So you have aleady spread contagions before it is confirmed with a test that just comfirms what you already know.  So how will increasing testing help?  You could test negative today and tomorrow be positive and throwing out contagians.  And that could be days before you have any symptoms.  

Taking temperatures is only going to confirm that you have one.  You know when you have a fever - even a low grade fever.  So if workplaces and retail venues start taking your temperature.  So you will be denied entry, but no one has said that if you just have a low grade fever that you will be immediately tested or confined.

Now they are saying that if you have COVID antibodies, there is no proof that it protects you from getting the diesase again.  Only confirms that you have had it.  

So at the end of the day, we are just left with solutions that aren't really solutions.  The best solution is to stay home and not get it at all.  At home you don't have to wear a mask.  

I understand that a lot of people on this forum don't agree with me and that's okay.  I'm going to do what I feel is right for me, even if I question some of the recommedations.  I don't clean my mail with disinfectant.  So far, I haven't disinfected any boxes.  I have friends that do.  I have a friend in NJ that washes all of her food with a mild bleach solution.  Not me.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 2:23:12 PM

You will notice that at least one of the suits had on an N-95 mask, and another in the back ground had a respirator.  Photo op.  The paitent was probaly on his way to be discharged.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 2:29:28 PM

Not one of the people in that photo has an N95 mask or a respirator.

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 2:35:13 PM

"I have a friend in NJ that washes all of her food with a mild bleach solution."

Well that must add quite an interesting flavor to ones meal.  I think I eill be skipping that precaution, at least for the time being (and forever thereafter)!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 2:35:17 PM

CDC is recommending it because they have no incentive to not do so.  There is no downside to them being overly conservative but lots of downside if they don't recommend every possible measure, regardless of whether it is effective or not.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 2:46:28 PM

CDC started out saying dont wear mask, perhaps to save for medical folks.  Too many things have changed in this whole deal.  

I think both sides have overplayed their hand.  I DON'T want to hear one more thing about ventilators!

In the end I cannot defend either side for actions and concerns.  It is like the election I have to go with the side that causes me the less compromise.  Taking Trump seriously but not literally still works!

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 3:26:50 PM

Would have to be - you rarely see anyone in full clothes in a hospital bed if admitted.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Always do what you think is best
Date:	4/29/2020 3:29:22 PM (updated 4/29/2020 3:29:50 PM)

Wonder at what temp in the oven/grill Covid19 dies.  I am sure like many things it does not do well when food is properly cooked.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Forgot about that big failed projection
Date:	4/29/2020 3:56:30 PM

Yeah, another one of the many crises predicted by the enlightened Fauci and Birx that didn't happen, right along with the temporary hospitals, the critical shortage of ICU beds and on and on.......and yet we are supposed to hang on every word they utter because of their government position. No thank you.

Plenty of very smart, very qualified medical professionals have been calling BS on much of what they were saying but they don't have the megaphone or are standing next to Trump spouting off.  If I had been so abjectly wrong I would have resigned long ago.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Forgot about that big failed projection
Date:	4/29/2020 4:15:34 PM

"Plenty of very smart, very qualified medical professionals have been calling BS on much of what they were saying" Who are these geniuses or just a dream you had? It will always be easy to second guess. Both parties are trying.

Trump blamed Obama for letting the supply of ventilators and masks get low. Yet, Trump has been in office for 3 years and did nothing.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Forgot about that big failed projection
Date:	4/29/2020 4:27:32 PM

You can praise Herr Oblamer all you want.  I stand firm with less compromise of my principles. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Forgot about that big failed projection
Date:	4/29/2020 4:41:13 PM

No, you don't understand what I am saying.  These people took an alternative view at the time and were later proven to have been correct.  This isn't about them second guessing anything.  This is about them looking at all the same facts and data and coming to a different conclusion and then later we find out they were right.  I don't know about you Goofy, but when I have one group of "experts" saying one thing and another group saying something else, I am going to believe the ones that ended up being right. 

For some reason people choose to continue to believe the government "experts" even when they are wrong over and over.  Why, I don't know.  But for sure "some people" does not include me.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	For every expert that agrees
Date:	4/29/2020 6:49:17 PM

You will find an expert that disagrees.  I don't know what data other experts have access to and are basing their view.  It's easy to criticize other experts as a distance and 50% of the time they will be right and you will hear about it, but if they are wrong, you won't hear a word from the dissenting experts.  It's like economists predictions - when they are right, they advertise it.  When they are wrong, no one hears about it.  

With regard to my friend with the bleach - I wouldn't do it.  I wish continue to wash my produce, but I'm not disinfecting it. There have been articles on social media about making sure that in your efforts to make yourself safe, you avoid making yourself sick.  

I have sometimes wondering about the effects of cooking on the virus.  I have heard it said that having corona will not transfer to the food product, but I have wondered about that.  I cook our meat products to the recommended temps (I have an instant read thermometer).  I've also wondered if freezing affects the virus.   

Perhaps they have found the wonder drug and this will all go away.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	For every expert that agrees
Date:	4/30/2020 8:17:54 AM

Right, which is why I placed experts in quotes.  But when you have a so-called "expert" that is consistently wrong on pretty much all the big issues to me it is madness to continue to listen to them.  And no doubt in my mind Fauci and Birx have been wrong on all the big issues. And of course they will claim that they were wrong because of the economy crushing measures taken but I think there is plenty of evidence that this argument may not be correct.  Unfortunately we won't know for sure for another 6 to 12 months if ever.  The government is not exactly great at admitting they made small mistakes, let alone such a gigantic mistake.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Okay, so answer me this
Date:	4/30/2020 9:12:14 AM

If you were President when the virus appeared through now:  What would you have done?  Just let the virus go and ride it out?  Or would you have closed down the economy to try to gain control?  Would you have done the SBA loans and sent people money.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Glad to
Date:	4/30/2020 9:43:51 AM (updated 4/30/2020 10:20:57 AM)

I would have likely done exactly what they did because I would have had the same faulty information and advice from the "experts" they had.  This is really simple.  I am not critiquing the past decisions.  I get why they did what they did.  As I have stated repeatedly, there is little downside for them to over react and nothing but downside if they under react.  And I have stated repeatedly that I would not want to be President, a Governor or a Mayor.  No easy decisions and political opponents will always take advantage of whatever you do.

What I am doing is critiquing the models that they based those decisions on.  But I can tell you that if the virus returns in the fall I would not respond with more Federal shutdowns and I would not believe any of the models.  I would defer to individual states to do what makes sense for their particular circumstances.  For example, South Dakota didn't shut down their economy and are doing fine (near the lowest in deaths per million citizens).  NY and NJ did and they are a train wreck.  Let the states decide what makes the most sense and have the Feds focus on helping them when and where they need it the most.  But I would not reward them for over reacting.  They would need to prove their decisions were prudent and beyond their control and they really need the help.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Glad to
Date:	4/30/2020 12:32:39 PM

Knowing the modeling forecasts for climate change and the fact that they are not valid, would you have not been very reluctant to shut down our country based on modeling for corona virus?