Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 9:09:18 AM

One Trumpista proudly posted a few days ago correctly pointing out that very little of the Democratic initives in the House have been successful.

Consider why...Mitch McConnel!  He is a virtual puppet of a wanabe dictator.  He waits for Trump to give the thumbs up or down on each piece of legislation that comes before the senate.  If Trump isn't ok with it (some danger here in that something trump supports now he may oppose five minutes from now) Mitch simply does not allow it to move to a vote.  This means, considering the filibuster rule, an effort that has the support of as much as 60% of the senate never sees the light of day!  Do all you Trump supporters and strict constitutionalists think that is what Tommy Jefferson, Johnny Adams and Jimmy Monroe had in mind?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 10:55:54 AM

AKA - just imagine how much higher our democrat spending levels could be if it were not for that Senate stopping things ( and could blame Trump for even higher spending levels)

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 11:24:54 AM

There must have been an article on a Liberal website about Mitch McConnell.  One of my liberal FB friends just posted about Mitch this morning.  All I can say is watch the debates tonight and tomorrow night and see how much money the liberal candidates want to spend.  I don't especially like Mitch McConnell but at least he is keeping the gate closed on some ridiculous legislation  - speaking of which, take a look at the Harris-AOC sponsored legislation that is in the House Right now.  HUH???  

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 11:40:09 AM

I always thought that each state has 2 senators and their job was to vote on legislature. Why doesn't Moscow Mitch allow the Senate to vote yes or no? Can someone answer that?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 12:08:02 PM (updated 7/30/2019 12:08:31 PM)

Because of the rules of the senate based on majority rights - you know some of that stuff that you were crowing about under Oblamer ( but not quite filibuster proof majorities)

I agree with MM you need a civics class.  

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 12:28:29 PM

You make no sense. Whenever anyone runs for office they tell us they want to clean up DC. They will represent the people. Tell me why Moscow Mitch prevents them from doing their job?

Name:	Subrosa -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 1:01:57 PM

There you go  again, Dimocrats!  You make a bunch of campaign promises, you don't fulfill them, and then you blame the Republicans.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 4:09:06 PM

That is because it is the Republicans in general and two Republicans in particular...one who's strings are being pulled and the second who is doing the pulling!  At the moment, representative democracy does not exist in the USA due to the corrupt and dictatorial mind of Donald Trump!

Senate rules PERMIT the Majority leader to control what legislation advances, they do not REQUIRE him to do so!  There are dozens of bills that would pass with large bi-partisan majorities and that have the support of the American people except for Trump and Mitch...every single person who reads this knows that is a fact!  It is not the fault of rank and file Democrats or Republicans, it is the fault of 2 deplorable individuals!

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 6:21:45 PM

That is because we are a Republic of states!  Not a democracy in the purest sense.  Just because you don’t like Trump is not enough for you to nullify his election.  TDS 

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Beyond Moscow Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 6:48:22 PM

 "Just because you don’t like Trump is not enough for you to nullify his election."

Kinda like what Trump did with Obama and his birth certifcate? You need to be honest and realize Trump causes his own negative press. TDS is just another phrase for a lying president. It is hard to tell teenagers that just because the president shouts goddamn during a rally does not make it acceptable language.

Do you have any issue(s) with Trump?

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Beyond Moscow Mitch
Date:	7/30/2019 7:19:58 PM

Yes I can’t seem to live my life without TDS in the media, on tv, on my stock networks.  Please can’t folks live their lives without thinking about Trump, they are falling for the bait.  That is all that is discussed on the message board.  

It’s sad.  Having said that I certainly like the market and life on Lake Martin.  

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	We are the UNITED STATES
Date:	7/30/2019 10:55:07 PM (updated 7/30/2019 11:03:33 PM)

A domocratic representative republic, not a confederation of states.  We all tried that once and some us a second time and it didn't go well either time.  Just because you  like Trump and what he does in no way negates the fact that we are a representative republic in which the PEOPLE elect and send men and women to our legislature to enact laws on our behalf.  Just because you do like Trump and his policies does not mean you and your fellow travelers have the right to ignore the ''representative'' part of the republic!!  If we are to survive as democratic representative republic the voice of the opposition must not be throttled in the upper house of our legislature by one man acting on behalf of another man...period!!  Nobody is talking about or trying to ''nullify'' an election but Ill be damned if I will roll over and let a man who was ''elected'' by less than 46% of the PEOPLE nullify the elected constitutional legislature of our republic!

Name:	Subrosa -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Beyond Moscow Mitch
Date:	7/31/2019 6:43:06 AM

I don’t see the comparison at all.  Kinda like the GEICO commercials.

Name:	Subrosa -	Reply
Subject:	We are the UNITED STATES
Date:	7/31/2019 6:52:28 AM

You won’t come out and say it, but you’re alluding to that great lib nut idea — get rid of the electoral college.  Along with due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc.  Anything to twist power your way.  The electoral college has worked fine for a coupe of centuries now and just because Hill the Pill didn’t win the election, now it needs to go.  If we went to a popular vote, the inner parts and rural parts of our nation would never get a voice again and all the libnut crazies would tear up this country the way they’ve done to Baltimore, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, etc.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	We are the UNITED STATES
Date:	7/31/2019 9:01:24 AM (updated 7/31/2019 9:07:43 AM)

Can you honestly say with a straight face that Donald Trump and his supporters are NOT twisting the system in anyway required to take as much power as possible?!  He!!. Can you even say with a straight face they are NOT making attempts outside the system to advance their power?!

BTW Hotshot: Pointing our the FACT that Trump failed to the  receive the support of over 54% or the American people is not advocating for or against the electoral college...it is simple telling the truth...a truth that gives Trump and his apologists constant heartburn!!

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	We are the UNITED STATES
Date:	7/31/2019 9:01:59 AM

Now, more than ever, the sagacity of our forefathers in setting up the way our President is elected is being validated.  You keep harping on popular vote counts on a national basis but that doesn't matter.  Donald Trump was elected in accordance with the laws of our country.  As to the operation of the Legislative Branch, the Senate is being run just like it always has been. Relax and work to elect legislators who are more in line with your desires and stop screaming at us.  Your protestations are wasted keystrokes.

Name:	Old Diver -	Reply
Subject:	How We Got Here!
Date:	7/31/2019 9:44:26 AM

The more I read of the Founding Fathers the more I am in awe of them. Unlike most folks they did learn from history. These were not the usual wild eyed revolutionaries but educated, successful men who studies history of men like Polybus who found some good in all forms of government and some bad. They thought to extract the good ideas and to avoid the bad. They also realized that people will fight to protect his own. Pitting three branches, of equal power against one another will prevent anyone fron acheving an overwhelming power over the others. By combining human nature to protect one's own with the great ideas suggssted from history they assembled the greatest document in human history!

   This was also the idea behind the Electorial College. If we had a direct popular vote then California and New York would always decide who is our president every time and totally over power the remainder of the country. I am sure that would work well, considering how they are run. Anyone who is interested in how this came about, I suggest reading, "The 5000 Year Leap." A brilliant book.

As Churchill said:

                                             Democracy is a terrible form of government

                                                              except for all the rest!    

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Something else to consider....Mitch
Date:	7/31/2019 10:30:21 AM (updated 7/31/2019 10:31:32 AM)

You resort to "you make no sense" when you have nothing else.

Name:   architect  -  Subject:   Something else to consider....Mitch Date:   7/30/2019 4:09:06 PM

That is because it is the Republicans in general and two Republicans in particular...one who's strings are being pulled and the second who is doing the pulling!  At the moment, representative democracy does not exist in the USA due to the corrupt and dictatorial mind of Donald Trump!

Senate rules PERMIT the Majority leader to control what legislation advances, they do not REQUIRE him to do so!  There are dozens of bills that would pass with large bi-partisan majorities and that have the support of the American people except for Trump and Mitch...every single person who reads this knows that is a fact!  It is not the fault of rank and file Democrats or Republicans, it is the fault of 2 deplorable individuals!

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	We are the UNITED STATES
Date:	7/31/2019 10:35:09 AM (updated 7/31/2019 10:41:32 AM)

You are new to the site - Archie is 100% in favor of NPV - he went on a multi week rant about it.  Which he would be arguing against if NY and California leaned red.  He is just pissed he can not honestly say "President Hillary"

Name:   architect  -  Subject:   YES! Date:   3/19/2019 9:19:07 AM (updated 3/19/2019 9:46:07 AM)

The electoral college may be part of the constitution but it is as archaic and wrong as was the part of the constitution that oroginally counted slaves as 3/5ths a person for purposes of enumeration.  Think about this, in the entire spectrum of thousands of federal and state elective offices, the President and vice president are the only 2 whose election is not directly determined by a vote of the people!  Maybe, you are one of those who wants to go back to the ''intent''.  Perhaps you would prefer to go back to the first election where George Washington was ''elected'' by the electoral college without benefit of a national popular election at all?

Name:	Subrosa -	Reply
Subject:	We are the UNITED STATES
Date:	7/31/2019 2:48:37 PM

And here we have another Libnut "YOU TOOOOO!!!" plus a disgustingly transparent attempt to deny the obvious.

Name:	Subrosa -	Reply
Subject:	We are the UNITED STATES
Date:	7/31/2019 2:48:38 PM

And here we have another Libnut "YOU TOOOOO!!!" plus a disgustingly transparent attempt to deny the obvious.

Name:	Subrosa -	Reply
Subject:	We are the UNITED STATES
Date:	7/31/2019 3:01:17 PM

That's all very erudite; however, you don't care about any of this -- you're just another lib appropriating and arguing anything you think will get you where you want to go on the power train.  You TDS's went nuts when you realized Hill the Pill won the popular vote and not the electoral vote, so now you want to scrap it, but watch out!  Remember that nucleur option you got pushed through the Senate?  Ole Mitch has been shooting you down with it ever since.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	We are the UNITED STATES
Date:	7/31/2019 6:10:25 PM (updated 7/31/2019 6:27:07 PM)

Seems to me you are the only one on this forum fixated with the popular vote totals.

Also, can you say with a straight face that the Democrats are NOT twisting the system in anyway required to take as much power as possible?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Yes Mr H
Date:	7/31/2019 9:15:07 PM (updated 7/31/2019 9:17:37 PM)

They are, but they are pretty obviously rank amateurs compared to the Trump crowd.

Now as to my being hung up on Trump rather badly losing the popular vote you are correct I do tend to harp on it.  Well, I started to make that point a year or so ago when someone on this forum told the few who post who are not Trump supporterws to shut up and quit complaining about Trump because ''the American people have spoken.''  Donald Trump is the ''constitutionally'' elected president but he is not the president because ''the American people have spoken''.  He is president inspite of the American people speaking and saying NO.  I know that doesn't bother you but do you deny that it is true?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Then you agree with Sir Winston?
Date:	7/31/2019 9:23:03 PM (updated 7/31/2019 9:40:48 PM)

Then you support democracy?  If so, tell me what is democratic about 6 states with only a little over 4 million people having the same elective power as a single state with 13 million people.  I'm not sure what it is but it is not democracy! 

If you post to support the electoral college that is all fine and good, but please do do equate it with ''democracy'' and please do not try to appropriate the wisdom of Sir Winston Churchill to support your thesis.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Yes Mr H
Date:	7/31/2019 10:28:28 PM

Yes, like it or not the American people have spoken and in accordance with law, enacted by representatives chosen by the people, the people chose Donald Trump as president. So take your popular vote argument and...can it. Just like the Senate, which gives lower population states equal representation with the largest, the electoral college evens out the playing field for the less populous states. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Then you agree with Sir Winston?
Date:	7/31/2019 10:31:30 PM

We are a nation of laws enacted by democratically elected representatives. Go back to ninth grade civics class and take it again.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Mr H instead of sending me back to my civics text
Date:	8/1/2019 12:00:52 PM (updated 8/1/2019 12:04:02 PM)

 why don't you go back and read the first post above entitled "We are the UNITED STATES". The content is pretty much in alignment with my and I suspect your middle school civics lessons!

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Mr H instead of sending me back to my civics text
Date:	8/1/2019 12:13:44 PM

My ninth grade experience was so long ago that it was considered Junior High School, lol

Agreed that your first post correctly lays out the general nature of this thing we call the United States of America.  But your continuing protestations about the 46 percent voting for Trump are disingenuous.  Do you truly believe the raw popular vote should determine the presidency?  If so, what do you say to those living in the vast midsection of the country that will no longer matter to the politicians?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Mr H instead of sending me back to my civics text
Date:	8/1/2019 12:57:36 PM (updated 8/1/2019 12:58:05 PM)

He does not care how it comes to pass as long as by hook or crook a dem gets elected, and if they did not then they were cheated or wants to change the rules after the fact.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Yes Mr H in 2019
Date:	8/1/2019 1:24:30 PM (updated 8/1/2019 1:48:13 PM)

I do feel the electoral college has outlived its purpose.  How can you make a reasonable argument that voters in the mid section of the country would not matter to the politicians if the politicians had to compete for every vote, not just the vote in the few swing states which make up 270 electoral votes?  How is any vote diluted if every vote counts?  Why is the vote of the people acceptable in every other elected office except 2.  How is going to a popular vote denying anything to anybody anywhere in America?  If every vote counts the same then a school teacher in  San Diago has the same voice and electoral say as an out of work coal miner in Mingo County, WV....how is that bad?   As it is now a Democrat in AL and a Republican in MA have absolutely no reason to even vote the presidential line on the ballot because they know their vote will in reality not even count toward determining the presidency...how is that good?

Think about this Mr. H,  you think electoral college is good for our representative democracy do you not?  Then how would you feel about going back to the "real" electoral college as envisioned by the framers which made no provision for popular vote for president at all...electors to decide the presidency were to be selected by the state legislatures.  Would you mind going back to that original expectation of the framers?  Of course with the way things are gerrymandered today I suspect you might have no problem at all.

Under the Electoral College it is still unlikely but entirely possible to see a day when a candidate could move into the Oval Office even if he or she was the preference of only a third of the citizens while their opponent was the preference of 2 thirds.  Is that OK?  Will that be acceptable for very long to the losing 2 thirds?  Would it be acceptable if those 2 thirds resorted to their "2nd amendment rights" to alter the situation?  Think about it...it really could happen! 

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Archie, maybe you have outlived
Date:	8/1/2019 7:51:02 PM

your usefulness?  The United States is a republic of states and electoral college protects each and every state.  To question the wisdom of the founding fathers is to reward mob rule.  

If you want to change the electoral college, offer an amendment to the constitution and get the states to ratify it.