| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
One reason to consider supporting Santorum
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Date:
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2/15/2012 9:18:34 AM
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With the way the Oblamer administration has handled the contraception issue there may be a reason to support Santorum as the nominee. Of course this will all play out over time but it is inexplicable as to why the administration seems determined to offend Catholic voters. Despite the fact that many Catholics dissent on the issue of contraception, one thing they do not like and that is the government trying to tell them what it means to be Catholic. And that is what Oblamer seems to be doing.
So how does this turn into a plus for Santorum? First of all, no President has been elected in the last 100 years without winning the Catholic vote. Catholics on the whole actually vote and there are almost 80 million of them in the US. That is a big voting block. And the population of Catholics in a number of swing states is even higher on a percentage basis making them even more important (ie, states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, etc.). So the question is which candidate can attract more Catholics, Santorum or Romney?
The answer is not straight forward. Now this is not just a Catholic thing because in 2000 Catholics went for the southern Baptist instead of the haughty John F'in Kerry....who served in Vietnam you know..... But one issue that could swing Catholics away from Obama is the issue of freedom of religion. And on that note Santorum is clearly in a better position to take advantage of that issue. Counterbalancing that is to what extent the economy will be the central issue in November. I suspect with the full court press the government media is going to put on that many people will be fooled to believe the economy is improving and Romney's so-called strengths will not be as big a factor. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
FYI, I am still undecided. My decision will be based on one thing only.....who do I think can get more electoral votes which means who can win in swing states and why. That is my sole criteria in this election cycle. And regardless of who it is I am going to support them financially and with my time.
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
One reason to consider supporting Santorum
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Date:
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2/15/2012 9:50:19 AM
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Here's Morris' opinion as to why he's doing the Catholic offense
URL: Obama, the great divider...
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Don't disagree with Dick Morris
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Date:
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2/15/2012 11:11:20 AM
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I am just thinking that Obama may be miscalculating the reaction from Catholics, even those that are OK with contraception.
But I am not sure Morris is completely right about the abortion issue. Even if a majority of Americans don't like abortion I think if push came to shove you could not hold that majority to ban it. Some percentage of them that don't approve of abortion would not be in favor of banning it......using the illogic that even thou It is still an issue for Democrats to demonize.
I frankly think that Obama is trying desperately to gin up a social issue debate to distract from his abysmal record on the economy. If the voting in November revolves around the economy then Obama is in serious trouble despite the full court press of the government media to convince the American people that his policies which are obviously failing, are starting to work. That is why this is tricky. If he and the government media can pull this ruse over the vast unwashed so-called independents then Santorum may be a better candidate on social issues than Romney...but maybe not......hence my current indecision. I can see the arguments either way.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Talk vs Skill
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Date:
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2/15/2012 1:41:30 PM (updated 2/15/2012 1:43:00 PM)
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Abortion… contraception… are these REALLY the important issues facing our nation? Oh, how naïve are the voters. It is upon this naivety that Obama, race baiters, and class warfare perpetrators depend. Voters who make their choices based on abortion and contraception are too lazy to do research. These are the same sort of folks who buy salad shooters… and hang velvet Elvis in their homes.
If you are mature enough to vote, then you should be mature enough to research the relevance of government and politics in your life and in your nation. You set priorities in your home… you do…DON’T YOU? Are abortion and contraception destroying your income? Are abortion and contraception the greatest issues facing our nation?
If you think the “social” conservatism of Santorum is the path to saving our nation… rather than the tools of Romney’s “fiscal” conservatism, then perhaps you should stay home and watch TV on election day.
Oh, I do like Santorum. But, my country needs the skill set brought by GOV Romney more than the moral authority of Santorum.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Talk vs Skill
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Date:
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2/15/2012 3:53:16 PM
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Don't disagree with you in the least. But the GOP hanging their hat on running solely on the economy and picking Romney for that reason may be a risky proposition. Don't underestimate the ability of the combination of lies from the Oblamer administration and their useful idiot sycophants in the government media resulting in enough of the same mind-numbed Independents that voted for him last time to think things are actually on the mend. Remember, this is an administration that this week went on national TV and stated matter of factly that the reason there has been no budget passed in the Senate is because they need 60 votes. That is an out and out lie. Budgets only need a simple majority in a Senate controlled by Dems and Obama's last budget was soundly defeated on a bipartisan basis. It was that bad as is this one. As long as they are willing to lie to the American people and the government media is complicit you are counting on a lot of people to educate themselves when they are really more interested in watching the X Factor.
And that is why I am undecided. You seem to have decided that this election will hinge solely or at least mostly on the economy. If you are right then I agree that Romney is probably the best candidate and if I were so sure I would support him. But if the economy becomes a lesser issue in the minds of too many voters then you have to wonder what will drive their decision.
Just for the record, I am not supporting Santorum and I have some strong reservations about his ability to beat Obama. But likewise I have strong reservations about just how conservative Romney is and whether he can beat Obama. I am hoping for more clarity over the next couple of weeks before Super Tuesday but I am not optimistic I will get it. Sounds like you are counting on the economy being the number one issue and I hope you are right. But if not, and Romney is the nominee we may all be in for another four years of the Messiah.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Talk vs Skill
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Date:
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2/15/2012 4:24:16 PM
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Regardless of my desires, I will embrace whichever conservative candidate comes out of this absurd primary season. Hopefully, the GOP candidate will be able to force Obama to defend his foibles, fallacies, and failures. The conservative candidate should be prepared to pin his ears back on each issue.
This whole process has been… will continue to be… painful. The smear PACs and smear SuperPACs have NOT been helpful at all.
I wonder why Romney has not come forward plain and simple. He has the good and reasonable case to present. Romney has the history. Santorum does not… he is the shallower of the two conservative pools.
But, alas MM, you are right... the proletariat are more susceptible to money and slick advertisement than adherent to reason.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Talk vs Skill
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Date:
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2/15/2012 5:13:32 PM
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+1 on supporting whoever the nominee is with my time, talent and treasure.
Time will tell on whether the vast unwashed in the middle will finally wake up. If Hound is any indication I am not optimistic.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Talk vs Skill
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Date:
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2/15/2012 5:42:28 PM
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"Don't underestimate the ability of the combination of lies from the Oblamer administration " Your candidates are telling lies about each other and they will say anything for a vote. I guess you will support who has the biggest nose and wins the nomination with your money and time. You are handing the election to Obama. Thanks.
Save you money.
OBAMA 2012.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Excuse me?
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Date:
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2/15/2012 6:45:12 PM
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I am not "unwashed".. I bathe every day.
My jury is still out.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
A challenge for you GF
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Date:
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2/15/2012 8:43:12 PM
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GF, sorry but there is no way you can distract from the awful fact of the lies coming from Oblamer and his administration. I gave you my example so if you want to explain to me how that is true I await your attempt with glee. So GF, educate us as to how many votes it takes to pass the budget in the Senate and what was the vote on the Teleprompter's last failed budget.
No diversions and no obfuscation.......lets see you answer that one.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Well that's good news
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Date:
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2/15/2012 8:44:09 PM
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on both fronts.........
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Well that's good news
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Date:
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2/15/2012 8:55:26 PM
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GF does not do homework assignments.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
A challenge for you GF
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Date:
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2/15/2012 11:18:38 PM
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If Goofy answers your challenge it will be a first for this board.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Latest Rasmussen Poll
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Date:
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2/16/2012 8:32:08 AM
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Shows Oblamer at -19 with Catholics which is a far cry from +9 in 2008. As I indicated, the administration is trying to gin up a fight over contraception as if anyone is proposing to use the power of government to ban it. Even the Church is not proposing that happen. Regardless of a Catholic's personal view of the issue of contraception they understand that the Church's position is both consistent and principled and they don't like some pseudo-Catholic HHS head and an agnostic POTUS telling the Church what it means to be Catholic.
You watch, the administration is going to roll over on this one sometime this summer. I just hope Catholics understand this is just the beginning and if they give the Teleprompter in Chief another four years when he won't have to worry about running for anything the damage may be permanent.........
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Social Conservatives
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Date:
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2/16/2012 8:55:22 AM
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Is it not possible that the Pretender et al are doing this to get the focus away from the economy and the debt?
I am against abortion. But, it does NOT figure into my vote.
1 – I don’t think the government has any business in the doctor’s office.
2 – Abortion is a private decision (and a miserable one for some).
3 – I’m not saying we should ban abortion or the morning after pill… I just don’t want to pay for it out of my tax dollars.
I believe that “social” conservatives are distracted from the real issues facing our nation. Abortion and contraception are not among them.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Social Conservatives
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Date:
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2/16/2012 9:42:02 AM
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OK, let me respond to this in the nicest possible way because you obviously do not understand why abortion will always be a significant issue to many Americans. First of all, the first and most fundamental right described in the Declaration of Independence is to life. Liberty and happiness came second and third for a very good reason. Without the right to life there is no happiness and there is no liberty. In fact there is nothing. A great many Americans, me among them, believe that the most grave moral issue facing this country is the murder of 300,000 babies every year.
So whether the economy is good or bad, whether Iran has or does not have nukes, whether oil is at $35 per barrel or $135 per barrel, the issue of abortion will be important to many of us. Life is short and eternity is forever. If I had to choose between a politician that was the most conservative and economically brilliant man to ever live but supported abortion and one that couldn't balance his checkbook but was pro life I would go with the latter. You might not make that choice but in my worldview to even passively assent to abortion is a grave moral evil. That is why the relegation of the abortion issue to a "woman's choice with her body" or "in the privacy of the bedroom" doesn't wash with me. This is not a victimless situation. When a woman makes that choice someone dies and that someone is totally innocent of anything.
So do I think the Messiah is trying to distract from his dismal record? Absolutely, as would I if I were as economically and historically illiterate as he is. But don't think that social issues don't drive the voting decision of a lot of Americans. Economic issues may outweigh social issues for a majority of Americans but I can assure you there are millions of us who would never vote for a pro-abortion candidate from any party.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
BTW
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Date:
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2/16/2012 9:53:49 AM
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No social conservative is suggesting banning contraceptives, not even Santorum. All he has said in the distant past is the objectively true statement that states have the right to ban contraception if they so choose. I mean, look at all the other things that get banned all the time by states.
Personally I would oppose the sale of abortifacient contraceptives (the pill, the morning after pill, etc.) because they too end a life, but if someone wants to use a condom or IUD or whatever that prevents conception that is their personal decision. But once a life is conceived there is someone else's existence at stake and it is no longer just the mother that will be impacted. In my view she lost that right when she became impregnated, just like you don't have the right to murder a day old baby, a child, a teenager, adult or senior citizen. In my view there is simply no difference.
But if you listened to Janet Smith's "Contraception, Why Not" you would understand why contraception has had such an awful impact on world in general and women in particular. But it would take an open mind. Everything the pro-contraception crowd promised would happen to improve the lives of women has not happened and everything that Pope Paul VI predicted in Humanae Vitae would happen to degrade the lives of woman has happened. It is a sad but incontrovertible truth........ You can get this on line and there are lots of youtube videos of her talks. They are compelling unless you are ideologically blind.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Judgement
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Date:
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2/16/2012 10:34:28 AM
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You are correct. Abortion is murder. And, I both understand and agree with your moral position.
However, women in pregnancy crisis can always choose to abort the life in their belly. Before abortion was available, it was done unprofessionally, and with such implements as coat hangers (were you alive in the sixties). Not only did the baby die… but, in many cases the woman… or a raging infection left her infertile. This goes on today in countries where clinical abortion is both unavailable AND ILLEGAL.
We will ALL be held accountable for our sins. My sin is turning away in sadness. But, I will not be judged for judging. The mother will be held accountable for the child. I don’t want to be held accountable for the life of the mother AND the child. I will be called upon to explain myself… I find it in my cup. But, I hope to have divine understanding that I only wanted to keep the procedure out of the disease ridden back rooms.
If abortion, regardless of its morality, is reality… then it must be safe and clean for the mother. Let GOD be the judge of the sorry outcome.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Judgement
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Date:
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2/16/2012 11:11:42 AM
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Be sure I am not judging anyone. That is between them and God. But I will be judged for what I do or do not do with regard to this issue which is why I speak out as well as other pitiful efforts.
But a "safe" abortion for a woman still results in one innocent person dying.......I would not exactly call that safe......
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Judgement
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Date:
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2/16/2012 11:47:47 AM
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I have neither the moral authority nor the ability to comment any further on the subject of abortion.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Judgement
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Date:
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2/16/2012 12:47:50 PM
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I think the Right, in general, and Santorum in particular is making a huge mistake on the contraception issue. They will lose the majority of women. While not every woman believes in abortion, most women feel very strongly about their right to prevent pregnancy. And additionally, this goes right back to the issue of equality between men and women.
I don't think the majority of women are willing to step back into the 1950s, and from my perspective and the women that I talk to, most are unwilling to have male politicians making their decisions for them.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Judgement
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Date:
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2/16/2012 1:29:48 PM
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I agree with you there. The election should be on the economy. That is the one thing that transcends personal beliefs. Campaign on the ecoomy; get elected then correct some of the wildly unpopular (with some) social issues. One an't be done unless the other is doe first.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
What are you talking about?!?!?
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Date:
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2/16/2012 2:08:58 PM
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Honestly Hound, have you watched George Stephonoplis' pathetic attempt to get a sound bite out of Romney about contraception during the debate?!? It was pathetic and Romney completely humiliated him. Nobody on the "right" is doing anything about contraception. You truly are one those Stalin referred to by posting this. Obama is the one that is attempting to gin up a controversy about contraception because he has so little respect for the mental agility of women that he assumes they will be mind numbed morons and think that is what any GOP candidate is proposing or even cares about.
Romney and Santorum's only mistake is to even engage on this issue. They just need to laugh when they are asked these stupid questions from the government media and tell them they are focused on more important issues. But I defy you to find one quote from either candidate suggesting a ban on contraception. Closest you will get is Santorum responding to a question as to whether he thought states have the right to ban contraception. His answer was yes which is absolutely correct. So what?!?!?
This is only an issue for women if they lack the critical thinking to realize that the battle is very narrowly confined to whether the federal government can force a religious institution to violate its own principles. This is not and has never been about banning contraception. The Church and informed people like myself understand that as women are educated in the truth about contraception and how it has harmed them, that like abortion they will begin to see the light.
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| Name: |
buzzbuster
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| Subject: |
What are you talking about?!?!?
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Date:
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2/17/2012 1:59:30 AM (updated 2/17/2012 2:06:39 AM)
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I know everyone has their own moral beliefs about this matter but I believe this issue is about the government trying to tell the Catholic Church (or any religion) how and why they must do or pay for something they don't believe in. Just more government to get in our lives. We need to get the Government OUT of our lives. Know wonder our country is in such a terrible debt crisis. Oblamer wants to divide this country as much as he can to help his own agenda.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
What are you talking about?!?!?
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Date:
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2/17/2012 7:58:40 AM (updated 2/17/2012 8:01:07 AM)
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The “social conservatives” and the “fiscal conservatives” are indeed divided by the inane methods of the primary… and especially by media sound bites. Truly, we should see both factions coalesce about the surviving conservative candidate.
The media skews and whips anything the conservative candidates say into slick advertizing to benefit the liberal cause. The real crisis is the inability of the voting citizens to relate the policies promoted by the candidates (or those executed by the party in power) to their personal lives. They devote more attention to American Idol and CSI Miami than they do reasoning for their vote.
“Independents” bought into the “Hope and Change” farce of the Obama ’08 campaign. Now, they witness the demise of the economy from the policies of Obama and the (then) Democratic House and Senate… hope and change indeed!
So, we see positive signs every now and then. We occasionally note that the avalanche of economic catastrophe “slowing.” Before you attribute these signs to Obama, perhaps you might want to consider that
a) The budget granting arm on the legislature, the House of Representatives, is now under conservative control, and
b) some Democrats are stung by what they actually got for a president – so they vote with conservatives.
Dictators begin their rise by circumventing the legislative bodies. Obama is a would be dictator. How can I say this? Now that he no longer “owns” both houses of the legislature (the House lost by popular election and the Senate marginalized by disaffection) he has resorted to executive order. On a good note: The next president can rescind such executive orders as easily as they were emplaced.
On a bad note: A significant number… important number… of voters cannot identify the tri-cameral system of checks and balances. It is at THESE voters that the slick advertising is aimed.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
As Usual
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Date:
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2/17/2012 11:24:51 AM
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GF runs away with his tail tucked between his legs like a scared puppy dog.
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