| Name: |
GoneFishin
- 
|
|
| Subject: |
The News Is Greattttttttt
|
|
Date:
|
2/3/2012 11:39:57 PM
|
I am sure the Right wing nuts will tell us why this is really a failure.
" Today's rosy jobs report did wonders for the markets. The tech-heavy Nasdaq, in fact, closed at an 11-year high, reports MarketWatch, while the Dow finished at its highest level since May 2008, notes the Wall Street Journal."
|
| Name: |
buzzbuster
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The News Is Greattttttttt
|
|
Date:
|
2/4/2012 12:40:45 AM
|
Obama is trying to get back to the bush years, but it takes the stock market to look like something is making it back. I still don't like what I've seen or heard to even resemble a comeback. My money is on anyone but Obama.
|
| Name: |
HP HQ
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The News Is Greattttttttt
|
|
Date:
|
2/4/2012 1:02:35 AM
|
That's cause of Facebook! Changing the world again!
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Question
|
|
Date:
|
2/4/2012 9:12:38 AM
|
What are you going to say when it goes down again? I suspect you will be AWOL. As we saw with Archie, he hasn't posted for a year and then when fabricated unemployment numbers come out that are disastrous news for the country he leaves the joke section where he belongs to drive by post.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
You know GF
|
|
Date:
|
2/4/2012 9:45:00 AM
|
These losers just can't stand it. They see their rightwing, evangelical, tea party "utopia" beginning to slip away all because capitalism is working.
|
| Name: |
Feb
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The News Is Greattttttttt
|
|
Date:
|
2/4/2012 11:44:14 AM
|
I will be the first to admitt President Obama has not been all he should or could of been. The one thing he does not need to do is emulate President George W. Bush. This would be a horrible mistake for this country. I have seen a lot of Presidents come and go, and President Bush was as poor as they get. This is to include Nixon and Clinton.
|
| Name: |
Feb
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Question
|
|
Date:
|
2/4/2012 3:31:21 PM
|
MM, It would not surprise me if you are not correct about this possible fabrication by the Democrats. You will have to admit the much bigger fabrication was by the Republican Party, and got us into the Iraq War. On the other hand, the fabrication that got us into Nam was even worse. I don't recall which Party got us into that blood bath.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Question
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 8:33:58 AM
|
Nice chronology of VN except you failed to mention that you served at least one of your tours under Nixon...a less than steller CiC...who fit right in with the earlier screw ups. Always give credit where credit is due.
|
| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Please, FEB, elaborate
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 10:42:49 AM
|
...on how Bush and/or the Republicans got us into the Iraq war. Please tell us who DID NOT BELIEVE there were weapons of mass destruction.
Please confirm, despite satellite imagery proof, that there was no WMD exported from Iraq to Syria prior to the fall of Sadam Hussein.
|
| Name: |
GoneFishin
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey Maj
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 4:43:51 PM
|
Why didn't Bush bomb Syria if the WMD were there? Are they still there?
|
| Name: |
water_watcher
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The News Is Greattttttttt
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 5:23:21 PM
|
I am very happy for those that were able to find work and of course the stock market going out.
It does not mean that I believe all of a sudden Oblamers policies are working after 3 years of failure. There are many reason for the increase in employment and much is being attributed to taxes staying low and the federal reserves free money policy. Neither of which Oblamer can claim credit for.
After 3 plus years of things getting "worse" under his policies ... sooner or later the economy will start to recover on its own.
Thank God the republicans held firm and did not give in to higher taxes ... Oblamer should be thanking them.
Look at the recovery under Reagan and Bush, both after horrible recessions and in Bush's case, 911 too. The recovery was much faster and much stronger.
What I get a kick out of, is under Bush unemployment was down to around 4% and the Dems were crying it was all low paying and temporary jobs and were critical. Now when we have the same under Oblamer and they are dancing in the streets. Just a reminder that 250,000 is not enough to even cover those joining the workforce. The ONLY reason the unemployment rate went down is more people gave up looking for work or unemployment ran and fell out of the workforce.
But as I said ... I am happy for those that did find work. It is about time after 3 years something is starting to look up.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Question
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 5:49:47 PM
|
What fabrication are you talking about that got us into the Iraq war? Do you mean the one that Democrats like Hillary, etc. used to vote for military action?!? You see, accepting revisionist history requires that you ignore who actually voted to approve military action against Iraq. Maybe if you weren't so cynical you might actually consider the possibility that the administration as well as the majority in Congress that looked at the flawed intelligence and thought they were acting in the best interests of our national defense. Either way going into Iraq happened with widespread bipartisan support. It was only after the war became unpopular did Demoncrats show themselves to be the gutless wonders that they are and actually critisized their own votes. So you can take the ridiculous story line and put in the fiction section where it belongs.
And if you want me to research the vote I will be glad to but I think you know in your heart its true.
|
| Name: |
GoneFishin
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey Martini
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 8:45:16 PM
|
"majority in Congress that looked at the flawed intelligence" Are you suggesting that the intelligence that there were WMD in Iraq was flawed?
|
| Name: |
Feb
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Question
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 11:04:02 PM
|
I am using the same logic you were using when you made the claim of fabrications.
We are all aware of the vote, but who provided the fabricated data used to obtain the vote? I think we have all seen it before. "Go the boss with the facts and get told - Wrong Answer, Come Back With the Answer I Want to Hear". Do you really think President Bush would not of done such an ugly thing?
As I have said before, you certainly know how to dance around the issue to steer away from your previous statements and positions.
I am not opposed to the Republican Party, but they are not always right. I prefer their overall direction over the Democratic Party. I often think you have been white washed and your brain soaked in Republican Party BS. I have never read anything you have stated which differed with the Republican line on any issue.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Answer
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 11:12:27 PM
|
Feb, I actually feel sorry for you if you think that was Bush's way. Answer my question if you have the guts.....isn't it possible that Bush relied on the very same intelligence information that members of Congress did when they voted?
And if you were him and you believed what you were told would you have not doen the very same thing? I know I would have. And if not, thank God you will never be POTUS because you would be AWOL in this job.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Of course it was flawed
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 11:17:39 PM
|
Dude, hindsight is 20/20...maybe 20/10........ and obviously the intelligence was wrong although there was lots of ancillary evidence that Iraq had WMD. And they used it on the Kurds. Of course that is what Bush gets for keeping a holdover Clinton appointee who told Bush it was a "slam dunk" that Iraq had WMD. Probably the same thing he told all those gutless Demoncrats that tried to revise history after the war became unpopular. At least Bush had the integrity to act on the intelligence that he had and never backed down.......can't say the same about Hillary and all the others....
|
| Name: |
Feb
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Answer
|
|
Date:
|
2/5/2012 11:59:17 PM
|
No, I honestly do not believe President Bush did the right thing. I believe he sought the information he wanted to hear and used it to lead us into the Iraq War. I think the same was done to get us into Viet Nam and the same poor leadership used to keep us in Nam.
If I were in the leadership position of those mislead with fabricated data, I too would of voted to destroy Iraq. In a leadership position I would not fabricate data to send American Men and Women into Danger. As General Colin Powell said to President Bush; "If you break it, you bought it." The American people and our economy is still paying for what President Bush broke.
I will never serve in the high offices you mention, but lets just say I have been there at a lower level as both a Platoon Leader and a Company Commander in actual combat operations. So don't even think of going there with me.
I can only assume you believe President Bush was an angel and would never - never use incorrect data to guide the Country. Besides, he was a Republican.
As Forest would say; That all I got to say about that.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
For Feb and MM
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 7:19:30 AM
|
Four little words "The Downing Street Memo". MI-5 agrees with Feb. Anybody that thinks W was not above cooking the intell books is delusional! Biggest political mistake I ever made was believing that man and voting for him on 04. Frankly, he has the blood of 4500 Americans on his hands as far as I'm concerned!
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Of course it was flawed
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 8:28:17 AM
|
The intelligence was manipulated, not by Bush but by those in his Administration whose views were well documented. Intelligence is a funny thing -- you can cherry pick what you want it to show or you can use "fully evaluated" intelligence. I realize that most people here have never looks at intelligence reports -- it is not as clear cut as you might think. It's quite easy to provide the President and the Hill with intelligence that can support a particular view -- reading intelligence is very much an art versus a science.
One of the reasons that Doug Feith started his own intelligence cell under his direction and headed up by more my colleague, Mike Maloof, was because the intelligence community was not reading the intelligence to support the views of himself and other neocons. While Maloof was an intelligence officer, he was frequently at odds with the rest of the intelligence community, which made him a perfect person to head up Feith's cell.
Bush was predisposed to believe anything that showed that WMD in Iraq -- I don't know if he had a personal reason (they did plot to kill his father) or because the Neocons had brainwashed him. You remember that Colin Powell was skeptical of the intelligence, and told Bush "you break it, you bought it".
I'm not going to get into a further discussion about this. You, of course, of free to believe whatever you want. But I don't think you would find too many intelligence officers familiar with all of this that would agree with you. Pressure was brought to bear. To quote Feb and Forrest Gump - that's all I have to say about that.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Answer to your answer
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 9:58:06 AM
|
Feb, you started off with the worn out canard Bush lied...people died. It is entirely reasonable for anyone to say they disagree with Bush's decision just as it is reasonable to agree with his decision. But to use the baseless "Bush lied" leftist is just plain wrong. Just like it is wrong to ignore the fact that Congress, including most of the Dems except the ultra left wing nuts, overwhelmingly voted for military action based on the exact same evidence that Bush used.
In hindsight, his biggest mistake was to keep Tenant on as one of the few holdovers from the Clinton administration.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?!?
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 10:02:14 AM
|
Well you are a libtard so the answer is obviously no. Hey Archie, pull your head out of your rear end and read the bipartisan Iraq Intelligence Commission report where they document that neither Bush nor Cheney cooked anything related to the intelligence failure. You need to stop watching Keith Olberman or Rachel "who no one has heard on Jeopardy Madcow for your information. Of course if you stopped watching Keith that would drop his rating by 10%. Heck, even his family doesn't watch......
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Not what the bipartisan commission found
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 10:14:22 AM
|
I know Hound, nod, nod, wink, wink......you have some inside information known only to you and other privileged all knowing masters of the universe that contradicts what the commission found. I mean after all, there is no way they could ever find out what you insiders all know. The commission concluded that this was a failure of intelligence, period.
As for Colin Powell's, you break you bought it line, what does that have to do with the intelligence? I have bad news for you but Archie used the same quote in the same context so you are now parroting some libtard oxymoron. Colin Powell's point was that if they acted on this intelligence and went to war with Iraq and deposed Saddam that we would own the aftermath.....well, duh! When has that not happened?!?!? That's exactly what happens in war and in fact for most countries that is exactly their goal. This has been true from the beginning of time. Only the U.S. goes to war and then frees people to self govern which is why we are the greatest force for good in this world and not evil as people like Archie think. The fact is Colin Powell went to the U.N. and presented that very same flawed intelligence.
to quote Forest Gump as you and Feb like to do, Stupid is as stupid does. And it is just plain dumb to keep spouting the already discredited Bush lied, people died nonsense.
|
| Name: |
Feb
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Answer to your answer
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 11:36:41 AM
|
Once again the Republicans are not capable of doing any wrong. It has never happened, it didn't happen, and it will never happen. You go forward with your opinions and be happy. I have my on, and basically I do not share your view or opinions.
The only thing we share is we both claim to be Republicans.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Wait a second
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 12:15:32 PM
|
When did i ever say that?!?!? i was responding to a specific allegation you made which was documented to be false. Believe me there are lots of things that Bush did that i did not likeYou want a list of things Republicans have done wrong, including Bush? Here's my partial list and it could be a lot longer.
- Prescription drug program added to Medicare
- Compromising with Dems on Supreme Court nominees during Bush's first term
- Voting to put Anthony Kennedy on the Supreme Court
- Every single vote for any earmark
- Every single vote for an increase in the debt limit
- Use of the fiction called baseline budgeting
i could go on and on. But let me clarify one thing for you. i am an American first, fiscal and social conservative second and a republican as a distant third. i vote for GOP candidates mostly because they are the lesser of two evils. it is not ideal but i can't think of any other alternative. As we have seen with 3 years of Jimmy Carter's second term there is a difference between Dems and Republicans even as flawed as the GOP is.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Not what the bipartisan commission found
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 12:22:36 PM
|
I probably do have inside information gained by meetings I attended, talking to intelligence officers that were engaged at the time and what I observed being in fairly close proximity to Feith's office (my boss worked directly for him) I'm not comfortable posting about that kind of stuff in an open forum and I will not do it.
I can't imagine that a bi-partisan committee would conclude that the President led us into a war based on cherry picked intelligence. Anyone would half a brain would not be sharing that kind of information based on interviews for a committee report. Just the fact that you would say that shows how little you understand about how the government operates in general and human nature in particular.
Funny how you always think that anyone that disagrees with you or may know more about something than you do is always "stupid". You've become quite the bully on this board. And I draw my own conclusion about you based on that.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Not what the bipartisan commission found
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 12:36:20 PM
|
What is stupid is posting false information or basing opinions on false information. If that is bullying then I must have missed the memo. What you and others don't like is when something false is posted I call it out. When you are right I have no problem agreeing with you. Heck, I even agreed with Archie recently proving that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.
But this Bush lied and people died is so over worn and demonstrably false and as long as people continue to propagate this piece of bovine scat I will continue to respond. I have said over and over again that it is entirely reasonable to disagree on whether it was wise or right to go into Iraq, especially with the benefit of hindsight about the intelligence failures. I happen to believe it was worth it to free 25 million people and for the chance of another functioning democracy in the middle east. Others disagree and that is fine.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Question
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 12:46:29 PM
|
Feb, Kennedy got us into Vietnam. LBJ escalated it significantly which was why he did not run for a 2nd term. Nixon ended it eventually.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Not what the bipartisan commission found
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 1:09:44 PM
|
Not posting false information. I'm posting based on things that I know. I'm sorry it doesn't jive with what you think you know.
I didn't say that Bush lied. I think that Bush was predisposed against Iraq, and certain people just fed him information based on their agenda that would get his attention, and push him in a certain direction. I think that Tenet's big problem was that he heard the discussions,and decided to feed the boss what others told him the boss wanted to hear. It would not be the first time that people fed the boss information that they thought he wanted to hear.
As to whether the cost of the war in terms of our economy and the lives lost was worth it? I personally don't think so, but history will write that story. I doubt you would find too many Iraqis right now that think their lives are better as a result of what we did. But then, the real target was not Iraq. Had things gone differently in Iraq, we would have moved on to Syria and Iran. The idea of setting up a democracy in Iraq was an interesting intellectual exercise, not the real objective. That's why we had no plan for the follow on in Iraq.
Calling people out based on what you think you know doesn't seem very smart to me. Your facts on this topic have no credibility with me, since all you know is what you've read. And we already know that you only read things that agree with the Republican agenda. Otherwise, you wouldn't be so sure you are right.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Not what the bipartisan commission found
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 1:30:42 PM
|
What I have read on the Iraq Intelligence Commission was bipartisan and not just the spin of the GOP. But facts are facts regardless of where you read them. That is actually the definition of a fact. The problem others have is when facts refute their ill-informed opinions.
Some issues are strictly opinion based and I respect differing views. The choice to go into Iraq is exactly one of these issues. Whether Bush lied or influenced the intelligence is a fabrication as determined by the commission. I understand your opinion about Iraq and respectfully disagree but I think your opposition seems principled and equally valid as mine. But you are right about history answering the question. I suspect that despite the left leaning historical business they will be much kinder to Bush just like they were with Reagan. Time will tell........
|
| Name: |
Mack
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Question
|
|
Date:
|
2/6/2012 7:04:53 PM
|
Yep, my buddy, LBJ. He not only escalated but he and Congress decided that the huge Social Security trust balance was perfect for paying for the weapons, bullets and helicopters.
And when our young men started to come back scarred mentally, physically and financially?? We, as a nation, gave them the Big Bird, and still are flipping them off at the VA after 40 years.
|
|
New Post
Search
Off-Topic Forum
Reply
»
Tennessee Lakes
»
Carroll County Lake
Login
|
Home
