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Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 7:54:30 AM (updated 9/14/2011 7:55:38 AM)

The link below is to an article on a new bill in Congress that would force all states to accept other states' concealed carry (CC)gun permits. Presently, some states recognize some other states' CC permits, but it is far from universal.

I have followed this for a while now with interest. I have an Alabama CC permit. In Momtgomery County one requests the permit and a background check is performed. I am not sure how extensive that check is, but I, and the rest of my family have had no problem obtaining the permit.

My US Navy customer, who lives in Summerville, South Carolina, recently obtained a South Carolina CC permit. His was much more involved, and included class time and actually going out to the range and demonstrating that he knew how to safely and properly operate his weapon.

I can certainly understand why South Carloina does not currently have reciprocity with Alabama. I can also understand, based on some of the news coming out of Summerville and the general Charleston area why an Alabama resident like myself visiting the Charleston area would want to be able to carry.

I don't know any of the details of the bill in Congress, but it would seem that it should carry some minimum requirements for a person to obtain a universal carry permit, while still allowing in-state permits with requirements for obtaining those permits still controlled by the individual states.

I would be interested in others' perceptions and thoughts on this subject.

URL: Nationwide Concealed Carry Bill in Congress

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 8:59:58 AM

I too have a CC permit. I was rather surprised that in Coosa it only took about 15 minutes to get it. I recently went to Florida to visit my father and had to check to make sure that I was legal in Florida. I think an national standard would be a good thing, but I don't see it happening. The Northeast is particularly sensitive to the gun issue and in DC is it illegal to carry a gun.

Name:	Tall Cotton -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 9:07:31 AM

To qualifyas a Tennessee CCW permit holder I had to go through classes and range time to demonstrate proficiency. At one time I was an Alabama permit holder. Way back then you applied at the sherrifs office, gave two references and you were generally approved. I think reciprocity for all states would be a wonderful thing. I could travel without worrying about breaking laws, which by the way, criminals don't give a second thought. My concern about a federal "law" would be that it moves control one step farther from the state/local level and into the hands of those who don't think the same way we do in the South. I don't want New York and California Congressmen and Senators deciding if I can carry in Tennessee. I would rather see states continue to work on mutually agreeable licensing requirements, but retain their rights to issue. What would really be great would be a 'must issue" not "may issue" mandate in each state.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 2:51:54 PM

If you register for a CC permit… you are registering your firearm(s).
Does anyone here see a future problem with this?

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 4:00:33 PM

Yes, I do take issue with another encroachment on our constitutionally defined freedoms. My experience is when applying for CC permit, you are required to register a firearm. However, the CC permit is not limited to that weapon. I always tie the permit to a weapon purchased through a FFL dealer as that information is already on record with ATF. In addition to legally carrying for personal protection, another advantage of the permit is that upon purchase of another handgun, FFL dealers will not, with CC permit presentation vs any other government issued ID, call the purchase in to the ATF. Therefore, there is a record, but it is kept locally with the FFL, subject to ATF inspection, but not forwarded to the central government bureaucrats.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	You are 100% correct Major.
Date:	9/14/2011 4:02:25 PM

I do not need, nor will I ever seek, permission, from city, county or state governments to exorcise a right explicitly granted to me in the Constitution.

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	You are 100% correct Major.
Date:	9/14/2011 4:20:24 PM

I feel the same way you do. The downside is in the event the weapon is ever needed away from your home. You know when seconds count and LEOs are minutes away, Without the permit to carry, you have engaged rightly or wrongly, in a series of criminal acts. I carry at all times, my wife and kids carry much of the time, as do my parents. 7 permits total, 2 handguns tied to the 7 permits.

Name:	Summer Lover -	Reply
Subject:	You are 100% correct Major.
Date:	9/14/2011 4:38:08 PM

My wife and myself have always listed my first FFL pistol also. While I lived in Lee County, the sheriff's secretary suggested that I write any additional firearms that I carry on the back of the permit (it was a simple paper card)... Uh, sorry - pass...

Name:	Tall Cotton -	Reply
Subject:	You are 100% correct Major.
Date:	9/14/2011 4:45:29 PM

In Tennessee there is no tie between the firearm and the permit other than the qualifying target lists the weapon used, but no SN. I still have my target so no one else has that information. While I chose to qualify with my XD40 which is registered to me, my oldest son also qualified with it. My middle son qualified with my Baby Eagle 45. Neither of them has a weapon registered to them. Most of those in the class used 22's to save on ammo costs. I agree that it's no ones business to tell me when I can or can't carry what. The COnstitution gives me that right. However, our instructors empahsized that when you make the decision to pull the trigger, you also make the decision to be sued. Right or wrong, someone will sue you. That's a chance I'm willing to take, but I don't want to give the suit any merit because I'm carrying illegally.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 9:00:55 PM

When we applied in Montgomery County, AL, no weapon information was required.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 9:10:53 PM (updated 9/14/2011 9:13:16 PM)

The discussion above shows the requirements for naming the firearm vary, some not at all, and for those that do, there are ways to minimize the exposure.

Think about it another way. The CC requirement is a sterling method for police to confiscate weapons from those not having a permit. Most responsible gun owners have a permit. The punks that shouldn't have a weapon at all don't get a permit. Traffic stops and searches, drug stops and searches...and other minor offenses that give the police reason to search are an outstanding way to get the guns out of their hands.

In my case (no requirement to ID a firearm) I love the CC permit requirement.

Name:	Feb -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 9:39:19 PM

We are also rather blessed in Alabama with the Castle Doctrine as a law. Some also know it as the "No Duty to Retreat". Here is one definition: Generally, the “castle doctrine” provides that someone attacked in his home can use reasonable force, which can include deadly force, to protect his or another's life without any duty to retreat from the attacker. It is defined differently in different states. The name appears to have its origin in the English common law rules protecting a person's home and the phrase “one's home is one's castle. ” I think you have hit the nail on the head with your understanding of why most States will not honor the concealed Carry permit from Alabama and/or some other States in their boundaries. Right or wrong they have much stricter requirement for a concealed carry permit. Many of the same States also require you have their State approval prior to even being allowed to purchase a gun. Their thinking is most folks from Alabama would not qualify for a concealed carry in their State; therefore why should they honor an Alabama CC permit in their State. I too would prefer my CC Permit allowed any place I travel, but as another poster mentioned I too am concerned about what it would do to our very liberal Alabama requirments. Many citizens hate Federal Laws for things which can be legislated by the States. I am not sure I would agree in this situation. On the other hand, there are groups who believe it is a violation of their rights to even have to have a permit by any government activity. I also would not agree with this position. Also remember, I do not believe military installation will allow you to conceal carry on their premise. Just my 2 cents worth; although I am more than willing to listen to differing views. Just be safe and careful since carrying or handling a weapon is an awsome responsibility. P.S. - Stay away from Hound's home State (New Jersey) since they are extremely tough to include their prohibited hollow point ammo.

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 10:08:28 PM

Feb, with regards to NJ, it was and still is easy to get a "visitors" ccw permit. Secured them for a couple of 3 week tours while doing some work in Kearney. Hollow points are still an issue. Dad carried without a permit for years up there because of the difficulty residents had with securing them. Sorta funny story, as my grandmothers health failed, she moved in with my parents. They provided her with the life alert medallion, you know, the " I've fallen and I can't get up" button. One day, Dad comes home and finds an ambulance and 3 squad cars at the house. Walks in and the EMT's are tending to my grandmother while the LEOs are cataloging the various guns, long and short, none registered as required, some missing sn's, in Dad's gun case. My grandmother was fine, she had decided to bathe instead of shower and was unable to get out of the tub without help, so she pushed the button. The failure to register had potential to turn out ugly. Dad was forced to call in some favors, made some promises, and shortly after, I wound up with much of the collection delivered to our home in Arkansas.

Name:	Feb -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 10:24:01 PM

That would of been scary for several reasons including your Grandmother's help. It was good their was help close by. I assume the guns without serial numbers were antique or older guns prior to serial numbers being required by law. As you know, missing serial numbers in the case of removed serial numbers are a felony offense even to include just possessing one. There is also a good thread going on another Forum about this proposed Reciprocity. Here is a link for anyone interested in numerous views on the subject:

URL: The Firing Line

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/14/2011 10:38:43 PM

I didn't say serial numbers, that was a typo or something. Anyway, they weren't removed, they just fell off. Yeah, thats the ticket. He won't even cut the tag off a mattress. As for the reciprocal, based on recent correspondence, I believe AL-3 Congressman Rogers is supporting the measure in the House.

Name:	Feb -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/15/2011 2:12:53 AM

I believe there were guns both American made and imported prior to 1968 without serial numbers. Although, if it had a serial number that was defaced, changed or removed then there are some big BATFE problems. After 1968, all guns (US made or imported) had to be marked with a serial number. One of my older (produced in Spain) shotguns does not and never had a serial number. I do have a 1918 Colt Military M1911 pistol and a 1916 Winchester Model 12 shotgun with original serial numbers. In the gun world, these are not even considered that old or collectible. I don't want to scare any Forum members with older guns not having serial numbers.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/15/2011 7:51:56 AM

I grew up in Arkansas and got my Bachelor's from Fayetteville. Where is your home?

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/15/2011 9:18:38 AM (updated 9/15/2011 9:22:40 AM)

Home now is Auburn, and enjoy our getaway across from Stillwaters. I grew up just down the road from Hound, but had the privilege of living and working in NW Arkansas in the 90's. I was travelling, officed in Bentonville, living in Russellville, and bought a cattle farm, in Booneville, that we still keep. Locals tend it, and my wife and I visit a few times each year, not for any reason related to investment, strictly to immerse ourselves in what we call " front porch therapy". Setting in the swing, looking up at the night sky, sipping some Italian and local wines, and clearing our heads. I also get to drive my farm truck, a restored 52 Chevy, top speed 45 mph. Not nearly as glamorous as many retreats but immensely satisfying. I love that part of the state, folks are embracing and hard working, scenery is beautiful, roads are just curvy enough to enjoy motorcycle riding, the night sky is God's great gift, and, we are only an hour away from Razorback stadium, IMO, the best stadium in the SEC. Wooooooooo Pig...........

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/15/2011 11:03:56 AM (updated 9/15/2011 11:07:15 AM)

Sooieee...!

Sounds like a great getaway. My home was in Pine Bluff, and on some weekends when we drove home we would stop by the Wiederkehr (sp?) and Post wineries in Altus (I think) for a "tour". We actually were a bit more interested in the samples. I still remember the tour going through the cellars holding the oak casks, then going outside and seeing huge stainless steel tanks where, according to the tour guide, the stored their "more heartier" wines. Sounds like the industry has matured and they now have quality wines available.

As to the roads, we had one route to Fayetteville we affectionately called the "Pig Trail", with some curves so sharp that I swear your front bumper was emerging from the curve before your back bumper entered it...

If you're looking to get away from the hustle and bustle, there are definitely areas up there to do that, as you found out.

BTW, what are some of your favorite Italaian wines?

Peace.

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/15/2011 1:16:39 PM

23 is a fantastic road, car or bike, 71 when not busy also a good ride. Raised on jug chianti, parents, grandparents, and great grandparents would he facing jail for that today. Soince moved away from the jug and into the estate reserves. I think the label is cool. Bridie does her thing with a clois du something or other. It does well in a pinch. Most of NWA is still dry, and would, whenever at dinner at Weidakers, take home a couple of bottles of their Cynthianna. It was ok then, but my gosh, hit it again a couple of weeks ago and tasted like lambrusco in a cork bottle.

Name:	Tall Cotton -	Reply
Subject:	Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Date:	9/15/2011 4:04:36 PM

I had this discussion today at lunch. While I still think it should be the states decision to set their CC permitting process and regulations, I would not oppose a Federal standard, which when met would allow you to carry anywhere in the US. States could then decide to participate or not,, but could not prohibit anyone with a permit from a qualifying state to carry in their state. I imagine Alabama would be pressured to offer an in-state only permit and a national permit for those who wish to travel. Sounds like more revenue to me. What I don't want is a Federal carry permit that trumps a states right to determine all issue permit regulations.

Name:	Feb -	Reply
Subject:	Agree 100%
Date:	9/15/2011 4:27:00 PM

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Agree As Well (nt)
Date:	9/15/2011 5:52:33 PM

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