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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Do You Remember 1987.......
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Date:
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11/28/2010 2:39:47 PM
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I had forgotten all of this. Do you remember when the senators were giving Ollie North such a bad time? This brings it all into perspective doesn't it? Have a great day.
Do you remember 1987.......
Thought you might be interested in this forgotten bit of information.........
It was 1987! At a lecture the other day they were
playing an old news video of
Lt.Col. Oliver North testifying at the Iran-Contra
hearings during the Reagan
Administration.
There was Ollie in front of God and country getting the
third degree, but what he said was stunning!
He was being drilled by a
senator, 'Did you not recently spend close to
$60,000 for a home security system?'
Ollie replied, 'Yes, I did, Sir.'
The senator
continued, trying to get a laugh out of the
audience, 'Isn't that just a little excessive?'
'No, sir,' continued Ollie.
'No? And why not?' the
senator asked.
'Because the lives of my family and I were
threatened, sir.'
'Threatened? By whom?' the senator questioned..
'By a Muslim terrorist, sir' Ollie answered.
'Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?'
'His name is Osama bin Laden, sir' Ollie replied.
At this point the senator tried to repeat the name,
but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then
probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt.
Then the senator continued.. Why are you so
afraid of this man?' the senator asked.
'Because, sir, he is the most
evil person alive that I know of', Ollie answered, and the Muslims are trying to take over America and destroy it from the inside out and putting their people into our political offices.
'And what do you recommend we do about him?' asked the<
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Do You Remember 1987.......
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Date:
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11/28/2010 6:54:01 PM
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Colonel North took the fall for the whole scheme.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Do You Remember 1987.......
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Date:
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11/28/2010 7:11:22 PM
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I remember ... and Al Gore was out of touch with reality then and still is today.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Do You Remember 1987.......
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Date:
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11/28/2010 7:35:59 PM
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I remember being surprised that it took Ollie North so long to figure out that $**T rolls downhill. He was a man with a big ego who thought he was going to be protected by those above him. The first rule of covert programs is that if you are running one, no one is going to protect you if it turns public. He made the mistake of thinking he was untouchable.
I somehow don't think that he needed a security fence to protect himself from Osama. He may have had some insight at the time, but back in 87 the focus was on the war in Central America, not on the Middle East.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Do You Remember 1987.......
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Date:
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11/28/2010 10:10:55 PM
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-So much is wrong with the above, ..but just two points
-#1) Ollie never mentioned Osama in this committee conversation. The fence was put up in response to intel on a planned drug cartel assassin.
-#2) Ollie was very aware of how stuff flows. His major concern in this whole effort was the way the congress had sold out the Latin Amercian freedom fighters, ..and thus was part of the group that concocted this plan to fund them without or incontravention of the will of a craven congress. Yes, he was wrong, and he realized this. It was not his ego, it was his commitment to promisses congress had made to these men and then reneged on.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Marquis de Lafayette
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Date:
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11/28/2010 10:45:07 PM
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Imagine if the French government had suddenly abandoned us in the middle of our revolution.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Do You Remember 1987.......
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Date:
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11/29/2010 10:28:06 AM
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Unfortunately, a lowly LTC doesn't get to take out his personal feelings on the decisions of his government (which he has sworn to protect and serve). He lied to Congress -- the elected representatives of the people.
I've known a lot of people over the years who felt quite passionately about one thing or another (including myself about the Iraq war, things that were being done during the drug wars, the wars in Central America, and our relationship with Israel), but that doesn't give one any special license.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Do You Remember 1987.......
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Date:
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11/29/2010 12:28:48 PM
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-That's the difference between a civilian and a soldier.
-North actually worked with teh freedom fighters, made promises to them, spoke for our nation to them. Then when the left wanted out, they bought the votes of several congressmen who had supported the effort. Now the freedom fighters were left without the means to carry on, means we promised them. Without these means they would be hunted down and killed.
-Yes, the military is sworn to obey civilian leadership if the oders are lawful and within the focus of the constitution. In this case the congressional witholding of funds was according to law. North as a bureaucrat should have obeyed. North, as a soldier, worked with a group that sought other means. They did not use US funds, as denied by congress. HOwever, they used funds they obtained by tricking Iran to support the Latin American frredom fighters.
-Yes a bureaucrat would turn his back on men about to die for believing in US promises. For a soldier, it was a little harder.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Do You Remember 1987.......
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Date:
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11/29/2010 6:05:01 PM
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As a soldier, North was required to carry out the decisions of his government. Remember, he sat in the EOB, he wasn't on the ground with the forces. He was a staff weenie. But, none the less, it was not his personal promise, it was that of his government. I don't think it was any harder for him than for anyone else. Everyone that has ever served our government in ddealing with foreign governments has had to give them bad news at times. It's part of the job. I've seen Generals have to tell their counterparts that our government was not going to provide equipment that the foreign government badly wanted.
You can't personalize it, and if you do, then you are in the wrong line of work.
H_Hob, you need to grow up. I'm sorry that you never had the privilege of serving your govenrment at a significant level, but you really need to get over it. Just stick with whatever it is that you know.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Do You Remember 1987.......
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Date:
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11/29/2010 7:13:22 PM
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You two should probably take this outside.........pxssing contests need open space.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
That would be
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Date:
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11/29/2010 9:24:45 PM
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because that is not the job of people in the Pentagon. It's their job to figure out what will be in the field to support the strategic goals of the United States, and then to figure out how to get the money to pay for it. And then they decide on how it will be fielded and under what circumstances. They also decide if foreign nationals can have access to it and under what circumstances. They decide that when we leave a war zone what will be turned over to the host country and what will be removed.
Maybe you should attend the Army Mgmt Staff College so then you would understand the responsibilities at each level, and how each level functions. It's not a matter of what is more important, it is a matter of how each level supports the other. It's all part of a larger whole.
You seem to want to make it an either/or, better/worse, military/civilian thing, and really, it's not about that at all.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Gone/Talullah/Fishin/hound
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Date:
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12/1/2010 9:12:53 AM
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I don't have a PhD. and I most certainly did end up working there because of my experience. I started my career at Ft. Monmouth NJ. And I successfully fielded 37 Firefinder radars in 6 countries. No, I wasn't there to open the boxes, but my fielders did. I worked the support at home. I am a CPL (certified professional logistician).
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