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Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	A cut and paste of interest to all
Date:	10/17/2010 9:29:31 AM

Dear Fellow Sitting Duck: As Obama's spending orgy sinks America deeper into financial turmoil, he is about to turn Uncle Sam's acute funding crisis into YOUR problem. In fact, Obama's Treasury and Labor Departments just held outrageous, executive branch hearings on nationalization of retirement accounts, and they are actively looking for the opportunity to ram this asset grab through. Your nest egg is in their cross-hairs; you know, to "protect you" from losing your own money. Congressional heavyweights such as Rep. George Miller (D-CA) have already held hearings on "merging" 401(k)s, IRAs, and other tax-advantaged private savings programs into the failed Social Security program. That's why it's absolutely vital you take a quick moment today to sign the Keep Obama's Hands Off My Retirement Account petition to Congress. In my 23+ years of exposing government attacks on assets for discerning Americans, trust me when I tell you that we ALL need to tell Congress in no uncertain terms: DON'T LET OBAMA GET HIS GRUBBY HANDS INTO MY RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS!!!!! Here's what is going on. The cash-strapped Obama Administration's unofficial 401(k) nationalization czar is utopian New School for Social Research academic Teresa Ghilarducci -- who was dubbed by U.S. News and World Report as "the most dangerous woman in America" after she appeared before Congress to testify in favor of government seizing 401(k)s and other retirement assets. The "Most Dangerous Woman in America" Who Helped Obama Rip Off GM Bond Holders Now Wants YOUR Retirement Money! Following her Congressional testimony at a 2008 hearing to begin ending 401(k) and IRA tax advantages, Ghilarducci admitted on conservative talk show host Wilbur Kirby's KVI 570 show in Seattle the truth about the left's scheme for gaining control of private retirement accounts: "I'm just rearranging the tax breaks that are available now for the 401(k)s and spreading [here she paused briefly to consider her words] spreading the wealth..." It is vital you sign our grassroots petition right away! Obama administration officials and their leftist allies in Congress have zeroed in on over $15 trillion in 401(k)s, IRAs, 403(b)s, and other accounts – and only a grassroots bonfire of opposition will ultimately stop them. Why? Major state pension funds, state governments, and the entire federal entitlement program structure are on the verge of collapse and in need of bailouts due to collapsing tax revenues. This Massive Theft is Underway -- Help Me STOP Them! In addition to the Congressional hearings referenced above -- and an "automatic IRA" bill introduced in August by Senator John Kerry (D-MA) -- Obama bureaucrats are working furiously on new regulations (CFR, Part 1, RIN 1545-BJ04) to "herd" unsuspecting 401(k)/IRA holders' money into government-approved "investments," such as federal government debt. The "mainstream media" have totally blown off this story. My name is Lee Bellinger, publisher of the nation's fastest-growing financial and self-reliance intelligence newsletter for savvy, freedom-loving investors, Independent Living. My monthly intelligence advisory has become the largest newsletter of its type in America. Independent Living warned our readers well in advance about the housing bubble, the probable collapse of the banking system, and many other wealth-destroying threats. You Need to Get Involved Now -- Don't Be a Sitting Duck Today, I am sounding the alarm because millions of Americans stand to lose TRILLIONS OF THEIR OWN DOLLARS. I DESPERATELY NEED YOUR HELP TO STOP THEM. Your assets and your financial future are directly on the line! Sign our urgent petition to Congress right away. I am committed to sending at least 1 million petitions to Congress, talk show radio hosts, and the Obama Administration. Over the coming months, my national petition drive will touch millions of U.S. households. Our message: You Will Pay a Political Price if You Even THINK of Stealing Our 401(k)s, IRAs, and Retirements Accounts and Dumping Them Into Government Bonds. Trust me when I tell you this is a winnable fight. Congress needs to be told in no uncertain terms that we will NOT let them turn our private savings into an ATM machine for spend-thrift politicians. Don't wait for this freight train to hit you. Make your voice heard now. Sign and submit your petition now, before a new financial crisis gives the Obama administration the cover it needs to ram this outrageous retirement nationalization scheme through! Lee Bellinger, Publisher Independent Living P.S. Obama administration officials are desperately looking for new suckers to pay for their trillion dollar deficits. That's why they want to nationalize our retirement accounts. We must stop them! Please sign this petition immediately!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting
Date:	10/17/2010 7:41:14 PM

but, after reading it, I still not clear on exactly what "they" are proposing to do. Change the tax laws on 401K? It's not clear to me what I'm supposed to be afraid of or why. Seems short on facts and long on hysteria. Can anyone clarify exactly what is being discussed? (keeping in mind that lots of stuff gets discussed in Washington and never sees the light of day)

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting
Date:	10/17/2010 9:39:03 PM

Hound, started following this issue in February. SEIU actually laid out the plan in their member newsletters. Although I don't have the link(s), I think first mention was November 09, with the strategy laid out in the March 10 issue. Below is an excerpt from a recent Labor Union Report post, with a link. You can dig around the site which features opinion, and links to various union efforts. This site appears to support a union free work environment, but, a closer look reveals they are anti union corruption. The Confiscationalists. Also on Friday, an online firestorm was created when Human Events writer Connie Hair exposed what Democrats were doing last week during a recess hearing in the Senate HELP Committee: Democrats in the Senate on Thursday held a recess hearing covering a taxpayer bailout of union pensions and a plan to seize private 401(k) plans to more “fairly” distribute taxpayer-funded pensions to everyone. Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee heard from hand-picked witnesses advocating the infamous “Guaranteed Retirement Account” (GRA) authored by Theresa Guilarducci. In a nutshell, under the GRA system government would seize private 401(k) accounts, setting up an additional 5% mandatory payroll tax to dole out a “fair” pension to everyone using that confiscated money coupled with the mandated contributions. This would, of course, be a sister government ponzi scheme working in tandem with Social Security, the primary purpose being to give big government politicians additional taxpayer funds to raid to pay for their out-of-control spending. The New School, at which Theresa Guilarducci is the Director of the Schwartz Center for Economic Policy Analysis, was founded in 1919 as a center for progressive thought by Fabian socialists, as well as historian Charles Beard and philosopher John Dewey. According to the New School’s website: The New School is a legendary, progressive university comprising eight schools bound by a common, unusual intent: to prepare and inspire its 10,200 undergraduate and graduate students to bring actual, positive change to the world. Now, the constitutionalist in you may, at first, balk at the usage of the term “confiscate.” After all, in addition to being possibly unconstitutional, a Castro-Chavez style nationalization (or confiscation) is probably too crude for this crowd of Ive-League Leninists. No, their brilliance would likely reqiure more subtlety…like the tax code. You see, if another government-entitlement were to be established, it would have to be pushed through Congress (which gives rise to the concerns of a ‘lame duck’ Congressional attempt at creating this monstrosity). Once it is created (assuming it could withstand court challenges), however, they could argue that the creation of an ‘account’ in this new scheme would suffice the eminent domain and just compensation provisions of the Fifth Amendment; or, if they don’t want to bother with that, they could just use the tax code to incentivise Americans to put their retirements into the hands of the government. The Final Noose Around America’s Neck The plan to end America’s semi-capitalist system may be announced very shortly when the President’s deficit reduction panel makes its report to the President. In fact, one of its members, former SEIU boss Andy Stern tipped their hand in July when he talked to the Huffington Post: Andy Stern, a key member of the deficit commission, is pushing to invest a significant portion of the Social Security trust fund in private companies through the stock market, the former labor leader told HuffPost. Stern, taking a break from one of the few public meetings of the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, said that Social Security “needs to be, like any pension fund, brought back into balance.” There were several ways to bring the fund into balance, he said, but one that he favors consists of “investing some percentage of government money in the stock market, as they do in Canada. Not individual taxpayer money, but government money.” The significance of this cannot be overstated. As bad as financial reform will for job growth, if the federal government invests in the private sector, there will be NO private sector.

URL: Labor Union Report

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting
Date:	10/18/2010 8:47:15 AM

Thanks. I have not been following this. A scary prospect. I can't imagine the American people putting up with this. While it might appeal to the lower end of the economic scale, I can't imagine that people who have money, and actually contribute money to political parties and candidates would tolerate this.
Hopefully, this is just a discussion by some more radical members of the democratic party.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Actually a brilliant idea from their perspective
Date:	10/18/2010 9:21:17 AM

You turn in your current 401k money in exchange for an annuity at retirement. The money goes into the general fund to pay for the increase in the size and scope of government. It will not reduce the deficits because it will come with a future liability (the annuity that must be paid.....but like Hound and Keynes, who cares, they'll all be dead before the bill comes due). Sadly, some will fall for this scam because of ignorance or fear or both. So instead of being in control of your own financial destiny you turn it over to the federal government who you cannot sue if future generations of politicians decide to change the benefits. And if you die your family will not get the fruit of your hard work and thrift.

What people don't understand is what the concept of risk means in terms of financial investments. Risk is uncertainty, pure and simple. What greater uncertainty can their be with the federal government. Want to cut $500B from Medicare? Done. Want to force private insurers to take on significant additional risk driving up costs? Done. Want to tax social security benefits? Done. The federal government can pretty much do anything and our only recourse is our vote. So vote all the Demoncrats out in November and then turn out attention to OCarter in 2012.

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