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Name:   water_watcher - Email Member
Subject:   Islam in a Nutshell
Date:   8/31/2010 7:02:19 AM

Adapted from  Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The
Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works:

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law.  The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. . Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam ,  with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

'Before I was nine, I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. --
Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.

Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse. The wolves will be herding the sheep!

Obama appoints two devout Muslims to Homeland Security posts. Doesn't this make you feel safer already?

Obama and Janet Napolitano appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim, as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development.

DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim who was born in Damascus , Syria , as ADC National Executive Director as a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).

That should make the US ' homeland much safer, huh!!
Was it not "Devout Muslim men" that flew planes into U.S. buildings 8 years ago?

It was a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood ?

Also: This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities. Can a good Muslim be a good American? This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   This is why
Date:   8/31/2010 8:12:10 AM

I believe the only Muslim we can trust is a secular Muslim that does not adhere to this social-political ideology masquerading as a religion.  Hillaire Belloc wrote a book called The Great Heresies of which Mohammedism was one.  Despite having written this in 1938 he considered Islam to be the most worrisome of the four.  Bear in mind that Helloc was a Catholic apologist.

I have linked to his chapter on Islam if you are interested.  Very prophetic and puts the Crusades in a very different light (i.e., they were defensive and not offensive in nature and quite literally saved Christianity from being overrun by Islam).

URL: http://www.ewtn.com/library/homelibr/heresy4.txt

Name:   roswellric - Email Member
Subject:   This is why
Date:   8/31/2010 9:45:27 AM

A secular rationale makes no sense to me. I don't trust anyone that describes themselves as a secular Muslim or any other religion. It's a contradiction in terms. It's like the old saw if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck.....but if it walks like a chicken it's probably not a duck. Definition: "Secularity (adjective form secular) is the state of being separate from religion" IMHO this kind of religious relativism is what's corrupting the Christian churches today. Churches have basic tenets-like the Ten Commandments-that characterize the religion. All Christians sin but they know they can repent and be forgiven. But now we see Christian congregations not only allowing members in the church that are self affirming sinners but placing them in positions of authority. Now that's OK with me and that can certainly be a "religion" and a church alright but that is not practicing a Christian religion in my opinion. Sorry for trodding in a difficult subject but I'm sure you'll forgive me :-)



Name:   Talullahhound - Email Member
Subject:   This is why
Date:   8/31/2010 3:08:01 PM

It's like being pregnant -- you either are or you aren't. When you are following a religion, you don't get to pick and choose that which you believe in versus what practices are convenient. I've always thought that having a belief in something, it becomes part and parcel of who you are as a human being. I've known Muslims that I liked and respected, but they are Muslims. My observation is that most Muslims come from a roaming tribal hertiage, and they don't have the strong sense of "nationalism" and loyalty to a country (or at least a set of secular principles). I spent a lot of time working with Middle Easterners, been to their countries, and I notice that some of them are very good at seeming to embrace Western culture, but only when it suits their purposes.



Name:   lotowner - Email Member
Subject:   This is why
Date:   8/31/2010 4:43:05 PM

Good summary!



Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   This is why
Date:   8/31/2010 9:09:09 PM

Maybe I should explain what I mean by a secular Muslim because I think we are on the same page even though it may not seem so.  In my definition a secular Muslim is one that was born into the Muslim faith or converted to the faith but no longer practices or adheres to Islam.  It simply is no longer an aspect of their lives despite having once been Muslim.  These are Muslims that are more likely than not to be trustworthy.  I have several that work for my company and I no more worry about them supporting Sharia law or jihad than my Baptist employees.  If you were to ask them they would say they are Muslim but it is simply not part of their everyday lives.

This is different than the moral relativism and secularism that is invading Christianity under the various guises of tolerance, forgiveness and inclusiveness.  There are a great many secular Christians (using my definition) that simply do not practice any discernible faith but still consider themselves Christian.  We could argue all day long about that but that is how they would identify themselves.  Likewise with secular Muslims (again, using my definition).



Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   Its not like pregancy
Date:   8/31/2010 9:19:02 PM

Again, read my definition of a secular Muslim.  If you don't think they exist then you don't know many Muslims. 

As for your comment about picking and choosing, you have just described the basic nature of Protestantism and what we call Cafeteria Catholics.  Protestants regularly pick and choose the sects that teach the brand of Christianity that suits them.  If they want gay bishops they go the Anglican Church.  If they like fundamentalism they will be drawn to certain sects.  If they believe in pre-millenialism they will be followers of LaHaye.  If they are socially and fiscally conservative they will be drawn to Dr. Stanley.  And if they want to build up their street cred and be seen as "authentically black" they will head to Jeremiah Wright's church.  And while Catholics don't have the luxury to pick and choose their Church (they can either stay or leave) I can tell you they pick and choose which Church teachings they will follow.  People do it all the time. And people often change as their view of the world changes.  When young they may be drawn to more evangelical or liberal sects but as they grow older and have children they are drawn to more family-friendly churches.



Name:   Talullahhound - Email Member
Subject:   Okay
Date:   8/31/2010 10:03:24 PM

So you have a few of these "secular" Muslims that work in your company and that makes you an expert on Muslims? And you've made up some definition of "secular" Muslim and now you use it to defend your opinions? MM, you are one of a kind.



Name:   roswellric - Email Member
Subject:   Please let me suggest...
Date:   8/31/2010 10:44:26 PM

you read this to see what I am trying to communicate...

URL: Muslim "Faith"

Name:   MrHodja - Email Member
Subject:   MM, An Important Distinction
Date:   8/31/2010 10:47:50 PM

It is the Episcopal Church of the USA ("ECUSA") that ordained gay clergy.  ECUSA is, at least for now, only ONE part of the Anglican Communion.

Those of us who USED TO belong to an ECUSA congregation, but don't think so kindly of freely scoffing at Biblical teachings, are now members of Anglican congregations NOT aligned with the misguided ECUSA.  There are moves afoot to form a US element directly under the Bishop of Canterbury, and the number of congregations splitting from ECUSA grows steadily.  It pains me for Anglicans to be painted with such a broad brush when it is ECUSA that is the singular miscreant.  There are at least three Anglican congregations in the Montgomery area that have nothing to do with ECUSA.

Sorry to go off like this, but the pain caused to so many conservative Anglicans by people seemingly hell-bent or rewriting the Bible dictates the correction. 

Nasreddin Hodja



Name:   MrHodja - Email Member
Subject:   Ever Hear The Term CEO?
Date:   8/31/2010 10:54:44 PM

Maybe not what you think.

Stands for "Christmas and Easter Only"...a term for those who, if you asked them, would say they are Christian, yet only darken the doorways of a church on Christmas and Easter.

Not sure that concept is limited to Christians.  I know for sure it applies to a lot of "secular" Jewish folks, except they don't cotton up to Christmas and Easter...:>) , yet enjoy ribs, pork sandwiches, and bacon along with the rest of us.



Name:   roswellric - Email Member
Subject:   MM, An Important Distinction
Date:   8/31/2010 10:56:38 PM

Well said. We are not talking about church's often man-made traditions we are talking about the basic tenets of Christianity. When the basic teachings are corrupted that's when the pain begins and you have to separate yourselves - as Paul commanded- from the openly self affirming sinners. But that's OK we are not to judge souls but we ARE to discern the truth. Many people get those terms confused.



Name:   roswellric - Email Member
Subject:   That's OK too...
Date:   8/31/2010 11:02:05 PM

Some things are not made to be eaten but it's only a sin unto your body. We all do that :-) Some parts of the Bible are an owner's manual for the body. If you put cheap oil in your engine it might not last as long but that won't condemn your soul :-)



Name:   MrHodja - Email Member
Subject:   That's OK too...
Date:   8/31/2010 11:31:04 PM

Indeed, back in Biblical times pork was really bad for you, so I would imagine that might have something to do with the prohibition.  Shucks, even when I was growing up (not Biblical times but close) one had to be really careful to fully cook pork else they end up with a bad case of trichinosis.



Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   Sigh.........
Date:   9/1/2010 7:31:41 AM

And Hound, you are many of a kind. 

I never said I was an expert on Islam and I stated very clearly that it was my definition.  You don't have to accept it and frankly I could care less whether you do or don't.  I am informed on this subject by what I have read on Islam, which is a fair amount, and the Muslims I know (which is not that many).  Rather than disagreeing with the point I am making with facts and logic you attack my semantics and experience.  Tell me Hound, just assuming you accept my definition of secular Muslim, not saying you do because after all I did come up with it all on my own and heaven forbid a conservative could come up with something all on their own instead of slavishly following whatever I heard recently from the government media and on Morning RINO Joe, but just pretend for a moment that you accept my definition, what about my approach is wrong and why?  Maybe if you can supply some reason and logic rather than reminding all of us poor saps in flyover country that you traveled to the Middle East on the government dole so you are the resident expert (as usual on every subject) and condescendingly patting us on our little heads and telling us to bow five times a day toward DC.  If you could just avoid for once reminding us that you are an expert on [pick a subject] because of your government job we might actually engage in some enlightening banter.

I will say this again and I could care less whether you agree or not as its just my opinion.  The only Muslim I would trust is a secular Muslim using MY definition of what that means.  I would never trust fully any person that adheres to Islam and practices their faith.  Now tell me, based on your vast knowledge of Islam and the thousands of Muslims that you, a woman who is little more than a piece of furniture in their eyes, have had deep cultural, theological and political discussions with, what is wrong with my logic?



Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   Stipulated
Date:   9/1/2010 7:38:52 AM

Not meaning to impugn all Episcopalians, after all my Mother was one before converting to the Catholic Church.  I should have been more precise but that is a detail I did not have when I posted.  It is a sad situation for the Anglican Church. 

A goodly number of Anglicans have returned to the Catholic Church.  The Holy Father paved the way for entire congregations to return by allowing the high mass (as long as it includes a proper consecration) and some other accommodations.  In fact, here in Atlanta we have a Catholic priest, Fr. David Dye, who is a convert and is married.  He is a great priest and tells a very funny story about how he can always tell the visitors in the Church during his homily.  Whenever he mentions his wife or children he can see the looks on their faces and knows they are a visitor. 



Name:   lotowner - Email Member
Subject:   Muslim's Stoning Young Girl To Death
Date:   9/1/2010 8:39:06 AM

I have elected not to show the cell phone clip dto the forum due to its brutality. From the summary, you can visualize what is going on.

This gruesome clip is how "peace loving Muslims" administer Sharia Law to a young girl who didn't want to marry an old man.  Imagine this is one of your family members laying there...Not in America, you say?  It's closer than you would have ever dreamed a couple of decades ago thanks to our political correctness and tolerance.  Islam has targeted the United States as the number one objective to bring down...If America is taken over, the rest of the world is theirs...Who will stop them???  The world will be ruled by Islam using Sharia Law.

The young girl in this video was sentenced to death by an ISLAMIC Court because she did not want to marry an old man the family arranged for her!  It’s amazing how they keep pulling down her skirt while they’re smashing her head with cement blocks.

This is NOT Al Qaeda or the Taliban, but MUSLIMS following SHARIA LAW!

These are the same people who want to build a mosque across from Ground Zero, where they killed 3,000 on 9/11.  These are the same people who continually target airlines or car bombs to blow up.  This is the same religion whose follower murdered the Fort Hood soldiers who were on their way to or from protecting our country.  “They” say they’re peaceful.  Have you heard one muslim criticize the acts of others in their religion?  Probably not allowed.

And we just sit here like a bunch of dumb pigeons.





Name:   roswellric - Email Member
Subject:   Well!
Date:   9/1/2010 9:00:02 AM

That was a good spirited debate conducted well! There were good points by everyone and no name calling or insults. This is a good point of departure and I hope everyone has a GREAT and SAFE holiday weekend!!!



Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   Please let me suggest...
Date:   9/1/2010 10:21:29 AM

Good piece that I had read before.  I have American Thinker bookmarked and go there every day to see what they are serving up.



Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   Excellent movie on the subject
Date:   9/1/2010 10:39:58 AM

Called The Stoning of Soraya M.  Very disturbing and realistic representation of an actual event.  You can get it at Blockbuster or Netflix but better yet, buy it like I did so we can better financially support good movies like this as opposed to the usual H-wood garbage.



Name:   Yankee06 - Email Member
Subject:   Islam
Date:   9/2/2010 1:35:07 PM

A great thread of discussion. It's discussions like this one that keep me coming back to this forum. The top two selections provided a great start, and serious comments kept it going. Thanks







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