Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 4:19:09 PM

CDC study showed the following based on behavior 14 days before becoming infected:

71% of those who tested positive for the Wuhan virus ALWAYS wore a mask

14% of those that tested positive OFTEN wore a mask

7% SOMETIMES wore a mask

8% RARELY or NEVER wore a mask.

Put more generally, 85% of those that wear masks and 15% that generally didn't were infected.  There are some other interesting findings about their social activities but if this data is indicative of the broader population it is pretty obvious that other factors have more to do with infection rates and that masks do little to change the outcome.  Interestingly, for those who had close contact with a person that had the virus, family members accounted for 51% of the contact.  Work and friends were the next two highest.  No surprise there. 

Here is the link:  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm

And you will see it is not a large dataset so take it with a grain of salt.  But one would think if masks are effective we would see a different result.  This study certainly reinforces my view that the other measures (social distancing, washing hands, etc.) are far more effective.

Name:	HARRY -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 4:39:03 PM

Question. Do you think that masks can be helpful at all in preventing the spread of COVID?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 5:11:35 PM (updated 10/12/2020 5:46:07 PM)

Depends on your definition of mask.  If you are talking about an N95 or better that is replaced with a new one every two hours then it can certainly help with droplets.  Does not work very well with aerosols which have the highest distance of movement over droplets.  Having said that, covering your mouth when you cough or sneeze is about as effective as a mask.  But if you are talking about the homemade masks and especially the gators then not so much.  People wear them for hours and days on end and the data shows that after two hours they are pretty much useless and likely do more harm than good in spreading disease. 

But this study seems to imply they do almost no good and in fact may be harmful to people wanting to avoid infection.  If they did nothing you wouldn't expect to see any correlation with rates of infection but in fact we see the opposite.  Those that seem to wear them the most are more likely to get the virus.  We need to find out if that is true on a broader basis, and if so, why.  I suspect it is because the ones wearing a mask engage in much riskier behaviors....but that's just a guess.  It is also possible that we wouldn't see as strong a negative correlation with a larger study population.  But based on the statistical analysis used by the authors I would be surprised if the results would be dramatically different....but it is possible. 

And to repeat myself for probably the 20th time, the problem I have with masks is they give people a false sense of security and they become more relaxed with the other measures that are more effective and actually work.  As an analogy...do you ever wonder why rugby has far fewer serious injuries than football?  I don't.  Rugby players are not wearing all the protective gear that causes football players to engage in very risky behavior.  The same is true with masks.  I see it all the time and if you were honest you would agree.  People with masks do not social distance well and probably are not as diligent with personal hygiene.  So wear your mask but stay way from me and don't engage in the behaviors that risk infection if you are over age 65, have co-morbidities or must be in regular and lengthy contact with those that do.  Otherwise go about your business and you will be like the vast majority of us that have never been infected.  And even if you do, hopefully you will be in the 99.8%+/- that don't succumb to the virus.

Name:	RHH -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 6:51:32 PM

Masks decrease the distance that infected droplets travel FROM an unsuspecting infected person. Experts say that statistically they help greatly in holding down transmission of disease to others.

You MM are a danger to society with your spread of toxic misinformation. 

Name:	HARRY -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 7:21:17 PM

Since you cannot or won't give a definitive NO then why are you campaigning so hard against wearing a mask. Many people probably respect your opinion as you seem to be a very intelligent fellow. Why risk the responsibility of swaying someone towards not wearing a mask when it may make a difference to their well being if they did? 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 7:29:17 PM (updated 10/12/2020 7:31:19 PM)

Who were the "experts" and can you cite a study that supports your claim?  Once again you expect others to blindly believe your opinions but you offer no corroboration for those opinions. It doesn't work that way on this forum. Unless you establish credibility your opinions are just that, opinions from a three letter entity posting on Off-Topic. 

And, BTW, what is toxic about a CDC publication?  Are you "smarter" than them as well?

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 8:21:37 PM

Or didn't 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 8:43:00 PM

First of all thank you for not being a moron like RHH.  Blindly following politicians makes one a danger to society, not those of us that follow the science.  I will say for the 21st time, wear masks if you want.  Just don't lessen up on the measures that actually work.

But here's a question for you.  Based on the CDC study, would you rather be in the 85% that always or usually wore masks that got the virus or the 15% that generally don't and didn't?  Again, I acknowledge the limitations of this one study but it is more consistent with the entire body of science on the lack of effectiveness of masks than the political class that tries to shame us otherwise would have you think.  I don't want to get sick, nor do I want others to get sick.  But I am going to follow the science and not blindly listen to politicians or bureaucrats that are motivated by things other than science.  And that is the sum and substance of my argument.  

You may believe that wearing masks offers some benefit.  I do not in general believe that based on my 30 years experience with PPE and dealing with biological and chemical hazards, my review of the research and the results of studies like the one above that masks do anything to prevent the spread of viruses like this one and in fact may do more harm than good.  If I truly believed that, which I do, why would I accept faulty logic that if it might help why not be compliant?  This is not about being rebellious for no good reason.  I follow all the other measures that the CDC recommends because based on my research and knowledge they make sense and will work if we are diligent.  Masks do not fall into that category and in my opinion can be detrimental.  Sorry, but the idea that they help is not supported by the science and the possibility that they do more harm than good is pretty well documented.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 8:46:34 PM

Tell that to the 85% that always or usually wore their masks and got the virus.  As for me, I would rather be in the 15%.  You are a complete and utter moron with a total inability to think critically.  It is mind numbed sheeple like you that are a danger to society, not me. You are one of the 85% that thinks masks protect you and you are the ones spreading this virus, not me.  What a total loon.......

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/12/2020 8:51:57 PM

The one consistent thing about this guy is his posts are almost entirely fact free.  I am telling you, if some left wing politician told him he would be protected by standing on his head and rubbing his belly counterclockwise he would do it day and night.  It's people like him that endanger our country because they are so completely ignorant of science, economics, history and lack critical thinking skills and yet they can still vote.  And yes, he thinks what he heard from some politician or bureaucrat is more reliable than scientific studies...he is literally that dense.  There is a reason for the term invincible ignorance and he is the poster child.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	But MM
Date:	10/12/2020 9:31:55 PM

Who really cares?  Wear it, don't wear it and nobody really cares.  Oh you may get a Karen or a Kevin tha wants to point out the error of your ways if you don't, or someone like you who will point out the errors of your way.  

You are making your own argument, so don't wear the mask if you think it isn't helping you.  Let everyone do as they see fit  I have to say I really am puzzle as to your little obsession with this.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	My obsession is really simple
Date:	10/13/2020 7:56:38 AM

People are running around wearing their masks because they are being told it will protect them when in fact it does not.  And those people wearing the masks make it very hard for me to social distance because they foolishly believe they are somehow impervious from getting or transmitting the virus.  So my concern is about people's health, including my own and masks are not helping and in my view could be making things worse as the CDC study implies. 

A secondary reason is that I object to the idea of slavishly following what the government tells us when it is at odds with science.  That kind of sheep-like behavior is worrisome to me.  

But rest assured I could care less about the Karen's and Kevin's.  Never had one say a thing to me but I am ready with facts if they do.  Fortunately I live in a sane area of the world.

Name:	RHH -	Reply
Subject:	My obsession is really simple
Date:	10/13/2020 8:47:43 AM

You persistent ignorant man, MM. people are not running around wearing masks to protect themselves. They do this to protect others. I realize this is a concept that you are repeatedly misstating.  The overall good of the community is a concept that a me first person like you is unwilling to accept.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks again Karen!
Date:	10/13/2020 9:01:16 AM

You are literally the best Karen in the world!  Please keep being you.  I bet you go around and lecture people who aren't wearing a mask don't you Karen?  Only a Karen would think a mask magically keeps the virus in while at the same time doesn't keep it out.  Karen's are so scientifically illiterate.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Your ignorance is really simple minded
Date:	10/13/2020 9:02:45 AM

To think that the miracle masks protect one way, but not the other is beyond ignorance actually.  I posted a link a few days ago about the cloth masks being worn by so many actually don't stop droplets, but instead simply break them into smaller droplets than can be more easily aerosolized.  Can you say more harm than good?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks again Karen!
Date:	10/13/2020 10:36:32 AM

I keep going by stores asking for that magic one way fabric......as well as hoping that I can find that one way screens to let the flies out and not let them back in.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks again Karen!
Date:	10/13/2020 11:45:13 AM

Right? I literally cannot believe someone would be so scientifically illiterate to not only say that but to repeat it over and over.  Tis better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.  Saying something stupid repeatedly does make it so.....it only makes you look invincingly ignorant.  I provide a CDC study that refutes the value of masks (which I stipulate has its limitations) and all he can do is be a Karen........amazing to behold.  I am really wondering it that isn't Archie's alter ego to get around my ignore.  Hard to imagine two people so fact free......

Name:	RHH -	Reply
Subject:	MM Group
Date:	10/13/2020 12:40:13 PM

The ignorant Mutual Masterbation (MM) group replies as expected.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Hah!
Date:	10/13/2020 12:49:46 PM

Hope you're better at self satisfying yourself than you are at spelling......somehow I doubt it.  Do you Karens wear a mask when you are having at it?  If not you are a danger to society!!!

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Hah!
Date:	10/13/2020 12:58:35 PM

Speaking of replies as expected (RHHs)

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Really intelligent and mature response
Date:	10/13/2020 1:41:26 PM

And he tries to pass himself off as a doctor...SMH

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	This may be the answer to the CDC study results
Date:	10/13/2020 2:08:15 PM

From a study in Australia that pretty much confirms some of what I have been saying and may explain why 85% of those that always or usually wore a mask and yet got infected.

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/health/do-cloth-masks-work-only-if-you-machine-wash-them-after-use-researchers-say

The highlights are that cloth face masks do more harm than good if they are not washed in hot water with detergent in a washing machine after each use.  How many people wash their masks after each use?  Answer....almost no one, including me.  But I will from now on as this makes a lot of sense to me and matches the other study that found masks are ineffective after two hours of use.

Cue Karen to tell me they too are ignorant and a danger to society for doing actual science.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Really intelligent and mature response
Date:	10/13/2020 2:28:41 PM (updated 10/13/2020 2:29:06 PM)

If its a MD stands maybe it stands for something else, from above posts it may be in the context of masterbation.

Maybe its a PhD - petty humorless d......

Or maybe he is just full of BS if anything at all.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Really intelligent and mature response
Date:	10/13/2020 2:33:49 PM

I suspect Karen is a prolific master bater.....as opposed to being an expert in masturbation......  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Really intelligent and mature response
Date:	10/13/2020 2:39:10 PM

One does not rule out the other, they are not mutually exclusive. If he is as pleasant in person then it may be his only option.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Really intelligent and mature response
Date:	10/13/2020 2:58:14 PM

Quite true.....pajama wearing soy boys are not exactly attractive to the opposite sex......

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Really intelligent and mature response
Date:	10/13/2020 3:55:45 PM (updated 10/13/2020 3:56:37 PM)

Having seen pictures of the soy girls rioting - he may be better off.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Really intelligent and mature response
Date:	10/13/2020 3:58:31 PM

Having spent a fair amount of time in Portland over the years I am guessing that is where these pictures came from.  I would say you can tell the women from the men by the facial hair but these days that may not actually be dispositive.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Really intelligent and mature response
Date:	10/13/2020 5:20:18 PM (updated 10/13/2020 5:22:56 PM)

Since these days insane people can pick their own attributes - I just list them all as halloween decorations that could be used to scare little children.

and yes https://www.the-sun.com/news/1607668/mugshots-antifa-rioters-arrested-portland-unrest/  it was lifted from portland arrests.

Since you were able to determine that so quickly - is it the geopolotical climate tha makes them so disfigured or some other factor like some oddball local global warming or toxic landfill?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting study by CDC on effectiveness of masks
Date:	10/13/2020 5:26:15 PM

Maybe these three should be arrested for attempted murder - no masks, no social distancing - This tells me what I need to know about what the liberals think of masks while hysterically bitching about Trump on a balcony at great distance.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	PHIL POSTS FAKE NEWS NOSE IS GROWING
Date:	10/13/2020 6:46:08 PM

Dude, for someone who professes to know it all,  you got caught without your depends.....the pic you posted is from 2018...

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	But why obsess?
Date:	10/13/2020 7:36:06 PM

If people feel they are safer with a mask, let them wear it.  it may not make them safer, but it can't hurt.  If someone is not social distancing to your satisfaction, you have the option of leaving the area, or asking them politely to step back.  

I was at the ortho doctor's office yesterday.  First of all, you could not enter the suite without a mask and you were not allowed to be accompanied.  They were enforcing this and asking people to wait outside the suite while the patient was waiting and being seen.  When I was in the examing room, I was seen by two Drs, both of whom were wearing masks.  When I was alone in the room, I moved my mask below my nose beause I was starting to get that claustrophobic feeling that I get in small rooms and which is enhanced by wearing the mask over my nose.  

I know I don't have COVID, and I know that I haven't been exposed, but I don't know about other people's social practices or medical histories, therefore I wear a mask.  We also have a mask mandate in Alabama.  But I don't chase other people down if they don't.  I don't say anything.  It's a personal choice and not worth an argument.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	But why obsess?
Date:	10/13/2020 7:36:06 PM

If people feel they are safer with a mask, let them wear it.  it may not make them safer, but it can't hurt.  If someone is not social distancing to your satisfaction, you have the option of leaving the area, or asking them politely to step back.  

I was at the ortho doctor's office yesterday.  First of all, you could not enter the suite without a mask and you were not allowed to be accompanied.  They were enforcing this and asking people to wait outside the suite while the patient was waiting and being seen.  When I was in the examing room, I was seen by two Drs, both of whom were wearing masks.  When I was alone in the room, I moved my mask below my nose beause I was starting to get that claustrophobic feeling that I get in small rooms and which is enhanced by wearing the mask over my nose.  

I know I don't have COVID, and I know that I haven't been exposed, but I don't know about other people's social practices or medical histories, therefore I wear a mask.  We also have a mask mandate in Alabama.  But I don't chase other people down if they don't.  I don't say anything.  It's a personal choice and not worth an argument.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Pot...meet kettle
Date:	10/14/2020 8:08:01 AM

This from the guy that told us for 3 years Trump colluded with Russia when we now know it was Shrillery who was colluding.  You having been posting fake news for the last four years.  You should probably sit this one out Goofy.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	PHIL POSTS FAKE NEWS NOSE IS GROWING
Date:	10/14/2020 8:36:04 AM

HAHAHA at least you caught it - I would have thought that the Brazzers logo across the bottom made it all the more obvious, or maybe you went to brazzers and was disappointed it was not a 3 way demonrat gay porn video.

Care to comment on Hunter Biden having images and emails on a laptop that was left for repairs showing him smoking crack and the emails showing him setting up meetings with Hiden at the Whitehouse for his corrupt Bursima buddies that the VP Hiden then demanded a investigation into the same company be shutdown or he would withold US tax dollars to the company?

Quid Pro Joe.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Because masks seem to make it worse
Date:	10/14/2020 8:46:35 AM

The point I have been making is that masks do not make you safer.  The data is clear from the CDC and scientific studies.  And I will say for the 22nd time, wear a mask if it makes you feel better but don't lessen up on the other measures because of the masks because it will expose you to more risk than if you don't wear one.  I don't know why you and a few others keep accusing me of telling people not to wear a mask.  I say the exact opposite.

But I warn people they are getting no protection from them nor are they protecting others.  Protect others by social distancing, diligent personal hygiene, take your temp before you go out and stay home if you are not feeling well.  Those things work.  

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	PHIL POSTS FAKE NEWS NOSE IS GROWING
Date:	10/14/2020 8:46:57 AM

I would comment if I could figure out what Biden's kid has to do with your lying?

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Ok GFY lets stipulate Phil is a liar.
Date:	10/14/2020 9:05:08 AM

You won the thread. 

Now tell us what you think of the crap found on the laptop?

AND BTW- The headline of this is FAKE NEWS.  I've never seen anything posted by him that I would consider false on facts and futhermore I agree with nearly all of his opinions.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	OK
Date:	10/14/2020 9:34:57 AM

I see your point and I agree with it.  If you don't do all the other stuff, the masks don't make a difference.  It's a package deal.  

I've had my temperature taken more recently than ever before.  Sometimes they make you wear a little sticker with your temp on it.  It makes me wonder if they ever find anyone with a fever who is out and about.  It's a weird thing.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Ok GFY lets stipulate Phil is a liar.
Date:	10/14/2020 10:04:38 AM

He does not know about the laptop because he has not received his CNN based talking points about it yet.  

So the best thing he can do is complain about a "off-topic" post.

I posted it, to think that the brazzers logo would be the dead giveaway. If we want to return to the topic of masks.

he can comment on 

DIFI

Pelosi

Northam

news media removing masks in crowds once the cameras turn off

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	OK
Date:	10/14/2020 11:44:18 AM

Last week I visited one of our client's plants in Akron, Ohio.  When you go in you have sign all these forms and then you go to separate room where an EMT uses some machine to check your temperature from like 8 feet away.  Our escort told us that a couple of weeks ago she came in from the outside heat and when they checked her temp all these alarms went off and she felt like she was some sort of terrorist about to be arrested or shot. 

We have to wear masks at our parish in Atlanta and they take your temp before you go in.  I get why they have to do it but I really hate it and can't wait for this to be over.  That's why we enjoy St. Vincent DePaul at the lake.....not so over the top although they do make sure you social distance which given how small their church is it really limits the number that can be inside.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	PHIL POSTS FAKE NEWS NOSE IS GROWING
Date:	10/14/2020 12:18:14 PM

Just because you can not pay attention to more then one thing at a time does not make the requst any less valid.  You might as well attempted some spelling or grammer Nazi to side step and call your lid like Hiden Biden.

Heard that after he found out about the laptop pics of Hunter sucking on the crack pipe and the emails he quickly called a lid and fled to the basement.  Guess like you he did not want to defend what was found.

Maybe instead of GFY we should start to call you GoneHiden.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	AMEN RHH!
Date:	10/16/2020 10:57:57 AM (updated 10/16/2020 11:05:16 AM)

MM closely edges out CRD as the most anti-intellectual member of this forum but he is hands down winner as the most selfish!!  Of course MM is completely convinced he is always the smartest person in the room...in reality that would be true only if he and Lifer were sharing the room!