Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/12/2018 10:57:24 PM (updated 8/12/2018 11:04:23 PM)

Summer Place posted the following tonight as the 31st post to the subject "Wake Boats" that began from "Pontoonfisher, Subject: South end of the lake, 7/30/2018, 10:32::34 AM", "Wakeboard boats should be limited to areas where there are no residences. Not only has it gotten to the point of damage to shoreline and property but could cause injury to young swimmers getting tossed into docks or boats". This post is a bit redundant to a post I made (Subject: 2EZ Ports, missing/stolen,8/5/2018 11:06:15 PM") My post was in response to a post made by Moldoldy. Hopefully you will read and offer comments.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am concerned that many(particularly owners of wake boats) are going to think I am being overly critical, but with respect to "ownership" of anything there comes a certain amount of "responsibility". Regardless of how any of you may be affected by the waves from "wake boats", I ask you to please read the 31 responces rederenced above. At least read the post by MartiniMan who if I am not mistaken has a wake boat but uses it in areas that do not subject others to the wake from his boat. The post by F1Fan on 7/31/2018 12:26:34 PM is a "must" read. Also, the post by Moldyoldy whose neighbor had a jet ski that was tied on a 2 X 4 bunk lift and the wake threw the jet ski in the air, broke the bunk, broke the tie down rope, setting it adrift. Seriously, I see a need for addressing the subject of wake boats with a view on "safety" for everyone on the lake.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 8:25:27 AM

Agreed.  Probably will require a bill in the legislature to write law on the use of wake boats.  Of course even with a law enforcement will be problematic but something needs to be done, statewide. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 9:53:24 AM

I hate to see new legislation to address a problem of lack of common sense and courtesy.  You are indeed correct that I do not and will not wakesurf around homes and docks.  Likewise when I'm out in my 26' Chris Craft I make sure I am on plane or going slow so I don't send out big waves. It's really the same problem.

I have long maintained that if you live on a lake you need to plan and design your dock system for ingoramouses.  Whether it's a wakeboard boat or a larger boat tooling along at 2,000 rpm leaving a 4 foot wake behind it you need to hope for the best and plan for the worst.  But I recognize not everyone has done this and that I'm responsible for damage so I stay away from homes.  Wakeboard boats tooling along with a surfer behind close to she where docks are situated are irresponsible idiots and if they do damage I hope it gets videotaped and they have to pay for their actions.  

Name:	donnie1 -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 11:54:59 AM

Mostly agree with Martini Man. I bought a point lot

so I can expect some waves. The question how 

big to build our sea walls , another two or three feet. 

Where does it stop? Is the Lake really the place to surf.

We have wake surfers starting and stopping right off our

dock. Can’t even think about putting Tritoon or Center Console

in Water on weekends. Oh yea my Son has one of the

big 26 footers but I hope he is responsible!

Name:	HP HQ -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 1:14:54 PM

But I thought this problem was gone with the ban of speedboats? Lets bring back speedboats and ban wawkeboard boats, all in favor say I!!

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 3:16:40 PM

Agreed.  My dock can withstand an f5 tornado but a floating dock can not take the 4-5 foot waves where it is attached to the stationary dock. Would love advice on how to remedy the problem.  I have thought that now that the lake level is fairly consistent that a floating dock is no longer a necessity.  It helps some of my older guest board the pontoon boat but guess we can live without it.  

Yall have a good day!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 3:28:06 PM

I think the wave problem from wakeboats surfing is probably not much different than big boats at 2,000 rpm.  It's just there are so many of them.  Either way I agree with you about the challenge of designing around those big waves and I just wish boaters were more responsible......I also wish I could win the lottery but wishes and $6 will get me a latte at Starbucks.  At the end of the day all I can do is be responsible myself and suggest the same to others.  But the world is full of a-holes that only think about themselves.  

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 4:19:44 PM

I

Name:	OleBamaGuy -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 4:50:14 PM

The lake is chock full of areas to wake free of docks or leisure boaters, However!

The preponderance of offenders are young adults whom daddy big bucks has given them the keys to his expensive boat full of gas so that these testosterone fueled kids can show off to their friends and girls. Which is great to be young and entitled.

But daddy big bucks (poor parenting, the problem of our generation) has not trained or put constraints, so these kids crank up the music to unnecessary levels fly thru sloughs which erode the banks, upend floating docks, destroy jetski ramps, not to mention the sun lover floating now gets washed ashore.

I hear people say they should be liable for damage??

Please, someone post here who have collected damages!!

We need to look at how loose the reins are on our children and grandchildren and perhaps ask the question, could this be my child?;

We also have too young of children on jet skis, and how about the peewee we all see being towed on a raft while dad is flying thru a gauntlet of boats. Makes you ask what’s wrong with people right?

I’ve noted the increase in police and watched as they visit 3 hours after the worst has passed or while stopping a boat to check lifevests, a boat nearby cutting within 50 foot of each other and they miss it. They just can’t see everything. So if you have a neighbor with kids that are out of control, let them know, before the entitled testosterone wakeboat comes in contact with the peewee on the tube pulled by the mindless father..

God Bless we make it thru the season with no one hurt tragic

Name:	slowtimer -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 6:28:46 PM

I know that I am new here on the forum but please hear me out.  I agree with HPHQ except for the banning of wake boats.  We have been coming to the lake since the 1980's and have been to the lake pretty much every weekend every summer since then.  The speedboats never caused any real wakes and were never a real problem like the wake boats are now.  They just annoyed a couple of very powerful people.  I have an old pontoon boat (same boat I had back when there were suposedly large speedboats tearing up the lake) and never had any issues anywhere on the lake with extremely large waves.  That has since changed with the large number of wake boats.  We have to repair our dock every year due to the stresses of the large wakes.  This was not the case a decade ago.                                         

Even though I am presonally affected negatively by the wake boats I do not agree to ban them.  Please do some research on how the speedboat ban came into affect and how it is a state law that only affects 3 lakes.  How is that possible?  There are many more than 3 lakes in Alabama but somehow only 3 were included in the state law.  That sounds very fishy to me.  If we start banning stuff that we don't like then the laws become a "whack a mole" scenario and eventually our individual freedoms are taken away one by one.  One day we will wake up and not be able to do or own what we want.  Actually, we are past that point but that is a conversation for a different time.  You don't see laws being removed from the books very often and I fear that would be the case here.   Wake surfing is a fad that will eventually go away along with the wake boats.  If we ban them then the people will move to something else that will annoy people.  Jet Skis maybe???  Fishing boats next, then sea planes, then submarines, then pontoon boats, then canoe's and kayaks.  If you ban each fad then eventually nobody will be able to enjoy the lake.  Let's remove the speedboat ban get some of our freedoms back.

Name:	Swelch -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/13/2018 7:06:12 PM

Martini has a very valid point, the 24’ cruisers are 

just as much of a pain as the 24’ wake boat. Ive

got a wake boat that I wanted to get for my kids 

to wake board behind. That being said, we typically only

wake board when they are out of school and we 

can do it on week days. That’s as much for my 

kids safety as anything else and I never get close

to a dock or pull in a slough going faster than idle 

If everyone would use common sense and be 

courteous it wouldn’t be an issue but then again 

I’m 46 and not 26 or 16 

Name:	Summer Place -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/14/2018 11:28:02 AM

Glad to see that there are other laker’s that are  frustrated with the wake problem on our lake. I am not a Johnny come lately to the lake. I have been for 62 years so I have some skin in the game. My dad and I build a sea wall on our lot out of concrete test cylinders which has stood the test of time till two summers ago when a wake boat passed by and sucked out 40 feet of wall. After much thought I repaired the collapse only to watch another wake boat suck it down the next summer. 

I have a lift for my pontoon to keep it from being  destroyed, but when I have guest over for a visit it requires a constant vigil to protect their boats. I do not think a ban is the solution but I do think  common sense along with a  designated area for these boats is a must.

I encourage any other  property owner to make their views known on this subject so others may take action to improve our beautiful lake for years to come.

Name:	John C -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/14/2018 11:50:27 AM

Agreed with Swelch. Banning "wake boats" won't do a thing just like the length limit on boats didn't do a thing. It's the behavior that is the problem. I see no correlation to the type of boat to the behavior of the owner.

Yes, I see wake board / wake surfers that come too close to docks throwing huge wakes. But I have also seen all kinds of other boats do it- PWCs, pontoons, bass boats, center consoles, runabouts, whatever. Brand new boats - and boats that look like they were built in the 70s. Doesn't matter. It's the person behind the wheel.

In fact, last weekend some gray haired folks in a really modest looking older model pontoon boat came churning by my dock - about 3 feet off of it. Our kids were in the water but thankfully not near their path (that time). My first thought was not about the waves that it caused, but making sure everyone was safe.

That being said, trust me, you can ask anyone that knows me - inconsiderate boating is very high on my list of pet peeves.

Name:	Jester -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/14/2018 12:52:04 PM

There may be areas where boaters can go without damaging docks with their waves but even in those areas major damage is still happening to the lake banks. There is no remedy for stupidity and inconsideration of the property of others.

I also have those lake residents that like to cruise by my boat house and docks and cause big waves and one of these days I will be down there when they come by and discuss this with them. My neighbor just bought a wake boat and we have had a discussion on usage close to our docks.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/14/2018 1:38:19 PM (updated 8/14/2018 1:42:51 PM)

What would be your suggestion for trying to deal with this problem? When it has gotten to the point that the wake can rip a personal water craft of its lift, wash out sea walls, bash moored boats against the side of the dock they are tied up to, damage floating docks, slam young swimmers off their floats and "lilly pads" into the dock they are next to, etc., something must "change". You can't expect small children to be aware of a "wake boat" that is nearing the area near their dock. What about a recent occurrence at Chuck's Marina where a small bass boat was at sitting at the fuel dock and the wake from a wake boat sends it launching into the air, almost ending up on top o the fuel dock. For anyone who has not been following the posts on wake boats, at a minimum , I strongly suggest you read the post by "F1Fan, Subject: South end of the lake, Date: 7/31/018 12:34:23 PM.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I strongly believe that if there was a way to for "boaters" to have reported on the kinds of dangerous situations they have seen that are similar to the few posts that have been made in the last couple of weeks, the number would be "staggering". It's only a matter of time until we see or hear of a terrible "accident" caused by the kinds of situations that are now reading about.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           It seems that the wake boarders think must have to a smooth "cove" in order to enjoy their their day. It has gotten so bad that I can't come in off the lake for a lunch break and tie my boat to the dock. It is necessary to put my boat on the lift just to be on the safe side.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/14/2018 3:14:19 PM

I don't think you can shame them but maybe if there was a lake-wide educational campaign on responsible boating it might help.  I do think that there will need to be enforcement of current laws about damaging other people's property. 

I will say this though.  I had a neighbor on our slough that had some really crappy docks who was a maniac complaining about boats.  I would go through at 1,000-1,200 RPM and he would be there screaming at us and one time sent the Marine Police.  I told them he was nuts and that his docks were in such disrepair that a canoe would damage them.  I flatly told the MP that I was not going any slower and he needed to do some repairs/upgrades.  They looked at the docks and came back and told me they agreed.  Sadly, he was so tightly wound that he dropped over dead from a heart attack a few months later. 

Another guy in Sandy Creek put up a huge sign that said No Wakeboats.  He was in a narrow area between two open areas and I used to think how futile that was.  You just can't fix ignorance and inconsideration with a sign.

So whatever you do, don't let this impact your mental or phsyical health and we all need to have the wisdom to change the things we can and accept the things we can't change.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/14/2018 4:46:32 PM

Take pictures of the offenders and post them. Try and include the number. All these posts are driving away anyone who is looking for a peaceful lake. Lake Martin is becoming a Mon-Fri lake. So sad, it is such a beautiful lake.

Name:	Summer Place -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/14/2018 5:18:34 PM

Thanks Buteye for starting a conversation that is past due and needs to be addressed.  What is the difference of someone buying a sports car and doing doughnuts or wheel stands in a subdivision when they could go to a field or vacant lot.  We have 790 miles of shoreline along with lots of open bodies of water that is excellent for wake boarding. Thank goodness school is back in session so we can have our weekends back.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/14/2018 5:31:20 PM

As I said, I really don't think shaming them is going to work.  If you can document the irresponsible act and it's direct impact on your property then provide the information to the MP and see if they will do something.  I just think it's not going to be that easy to prove that Boat A caused Damage B unless you get very lucky and happen to be there and video the whole thing.  Education will help but at the end of the day there are going to be clueless ignoramouses out there and you have to try to work around them as best you can.  As long as I've been at Lake Martin people have complained about waves.  It's a reality of lake life and if it really bothers a person I recommend they move off the deeper water into a slough where it will be better.  It's not fair that others force you to have to make that decision but at the end of the day we all have to decide how to respond to things like this.

Name:	donnie1 -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/14/2018 7:39:31 PM

A good place to start is a ban on Wake enhancement

devices. Ban Ballast. Wedges. Tabs.  Anything less 

is a dream. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/14/2018 10:47:56 PM

This is exactly why people start talking about a ban.  Because polite discussion with the offender doesn't work, signs don't work, courses in boat etiquette don't work, expecting the marine police to do something doesn't work, so what do you do?  You turn to legislation, and then the offenders are up in arms about how unfair it is.  Face it - it is a different world than it was in the past.  More people are only concerned about themselves and what they want to do, without giving a thought to anyone else.  Try to talk and you will get a profane response.  It is a large lake and there just aren't enough MP to be everywhere.  

I live on a thankfully quiet slough - yes, sometimes pontoon boats come down the slough a little fast, this past weekend we had someone on a jet ski who could think of nothing better than cutting donuts in the slough (when bigger water was within sight).  We rarely venture out on the water on the weekends, because during the week when everyone is gone is so pleasant.  A few times when we had guests and took them out on the weekends, it scared me to death - wake boats, jet skis, people pulling kids on tubes, pontoon boats, fishing boats going every which way with not much courtesy.  

In my view, that is why people start talking about bans - becasue they get so frustrated with a situation for which there seems to be no solution, except a legislative one.  

Name:	Dawgstyle -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/15/2018 12:03:40 PM

I have a house in what should be a quiet slough on Manoy Creek but that doesn't keep out the wake boats. Last fall one of them caused extensive damage to my pontoon that was tied to my dock. I have considered trying to petition for a no wake zone but haven't bothered because I understand that the Marine Police are really strict on granting no wake zones. Perhaps instead of legislation banning boats that are equipped to create enhanced wakes the Marine Police could change their policy on issuing no wake designations. This is a big lake. There is no need for boaters to use areas where people have docks, seawalls and boats tethered to docks to pull skiers or wake boards.

Name:	39KC -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/15/2018 2:47:14 PM

Maybe you could try a couple/few of these 

Inflatable Vinyl Buoys

Inflatable Vinyl Boat Buoy

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/16/2018 3:07:00 PM

These are great but make sure you read the rules as they can only be so many feet from the shore.  Can't recall the number but it isn't far.  We got a five-gallon bucket and cemented a large eye bolt with a nut on the bottom into it.  Then we attached a rope to the bouy.  Has been there for years and definitely keeps boats from coming too close to the dock.  Also, they will get run over at night and won't hold up.  

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/16/2018 3:43:13 PM

I believe owner-installed buoys are limited to no more than 25 feet from the pier.  Hardly ever are they installed that close. 

Name:	CranBob -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/16/2018 5:58:38 PM

We have two of the big orang buoys about 25 ft off our dock. They have been out 3 or 4 years mainly to keep the boats in our slough away from where we swim but I have seen several pontoon boats come between them and our dock with at least 300 ft of water between us and the opposite bank. Go figure !

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats Take Action
Date:	8/16/2018 7:12:27 PM

Probably jerks who did it just because they are there and wanted you to know you won't tell THEM where they can and can't take their boat.  

Name:	Pontoonfisher -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/17/2018 9:07:37 AM

I feel so honored to have inspired such a long thread.  

It's safe to say that wake boats will be around for a while.  There has definitely been a change on the lake in the past 5 years.  It is now mostly wake boats and pontoons.  The solution would be to ban idiots but that is obviously not going to happen.  I am a wake boat owner and guess what, I had to install whips on our dock to protect our wake boat from PWCs and pontoons.  How is that for irony?  I was forced to make a change to accommodate others irresponsibility.  

The problem is not wake boats.  As someone stated above it is the operators of these boats.  Also as stated above a ban will not solve anything.  The idea of banning wake creating devices is insane.  How are you going to enforce that?  The marine police can't even enforce DUI laws.  

It is unfortunate times we live in.  You are forced to change things in your own life because of others irresponsibility.  

BTW, wake surfing is a blast if you have never tried it.  I could do it all day if my wife would pull me all day.  Can't wait to try out my new board tomorrow.  In a remote area of course!!!!!

Name:	Pontoonfisher -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/17/2018 9:16:59 AM

Just to add to my post, I think a viable solution would be to create "wake surfing" zones around the lake.  There are plenty of remote areas around the lake to do this.  This would be very easy to enforce.  If the MP see a boat surfing outside a wake surf area then they get a ticket.  It's a black and white law that is easy to enforce.

Not to be stereotypical but a group of young people wake surfing are probably drinking too.  This would also allow the MPs to target these areas for safety checks and DUI enforcement.  Seems like a win win all around.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/17/2018 11:57:33 AM

The fact that you had to install "whips" on your dock to protect your own wake boat is an excellent example of this problem. If wakes can cause damage to any type of marine vessel tied to a dock, just imagine a wake slamming young kids who aee on floats, lilly pads, etc. be into a dock.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Also, I think your suggestion to create "wake surfing" zones is an excellent way to help "all" boaters to be able to enjoy the many fun opportunities provided by the lake. I like the idea that it could be very beneficial in helping to control the younger underaged users of alcoholic beverages while on the lake. There is probabaly enough problems created by those who are of age. What would it take to get some action started along the lines you have suggested? Is it possibe that if "wake surfing" zones were created, is it possible there would be so much "wake" in the area that wake boat owners would then be complaining about each other? Further, in the area of tranquilty, I was at my lake house the last two days and I saw two PWC's and one fishing boat.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           One further point, I have had my house on the lake for eight years. I only have a sea wall on about half of my shoreline,mainly in the front of my house. For the first five years i didn't have any real noticeable shoreline erosion. However, in the last two years I have seen erosion of close to 2 feet. With that being said, I will likely construct a sea wall on my remaining shoreline this fall. That brings up one other question, as you have been on the lake this year do you see what to me appears to be greater erosion around the lake than usual?

Name:	Pontoonfisher -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/17/2018 12:57:51 PM

I would say if there is an increase in erosion it is due to the overall volume of traffic in general.  I don't think it can all be blamed on wake boats alone.  I think it's an ignorant statement to blame all recent erosion on wake boats but of course I'm biased because I'm a wake boat owner.  Think about the amount of development on the lake in the past 5, 10 or 20 years.  There are just more people on the lake which translates to more boats which means more wave action.  The south end of the lake from Chuck's to the dam is like running in a 3 to four 4 sea on busy weekends.  That is not from wake boats.  You can't wake surf when the conditions are like that.

There has been significant erosion on the lot next to us that does not have a sea wall and we are in a quiet slough.  If there is no sea wall you will have erosion from both wave action and runoff.

A wake boat ban is a pipe dream.  It will never happen.  The largest marina group on the lake sells a lot of these boats and services them.  The local economies want the revenue that they bring. 

If you’re looking for a quiet, tranquil lake on the weekends then Lake Martin is not your lake anymore.  How can it be with all the development?  It is only going to get worse.

Name:	donnie1 -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/17/2018 3:33:04 PM

Remington Arms and Monsanto didn’t expect 

what’s happing right now to them. Wake Boats

are a known problem just by viewing the forum and

others around the country.  Southern Company execs

may find it hard to defend a known issue after a severe 

mishap on the lake. Round up was said to be safe

now they are paying hundred of Millions $$  

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/17/2018 4:06:51 PM

It was not my intention by any means to say that all the erosion is the result of wake boats. I once lived on a quiet slough but it is not that way any more. However, for six years I had almost no erosion but the changes over the last two years have made it necessary to extend my sea wall. By no means am I saying that wake boats should be banned. But you yourself suggested the possibility of creating "wake surfing" zones around the lake. Why should everyone have to install "whips" on their dock to protect their boats because of wakes? Emotions aside, I must say as a granddad, I fear for my grandkids as they play in the water no more the ten feet from the dock. As we all know, new "Toys" are going to come along and everyone who can afford one wants to have one. However, every "toy" has its place and that's why it is necessary to have laws that govern their use. If every person used common sense and took responsibility for their new "toys", the world and especially the lake, would be a better and safer place. Also, I ask again, do you have any suggestions how one might introduce thr possibility of having "wake surfing" zones? I appreciate your interest on this subject.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/17/2018 11:44:48 PM

Never say never - Big boat owners thought there would never be a ban either  

You could conrol it, if the counties did not register wake boats if they were illegal.  

You say the the boats aren't the problem but the operators are the problem - as far as I know, wake boats do not operte themselves - without a driver, they just sit.  

Having said all that - I have no real problem with wake boats when they are driven by a responsible adult.  I'm sure it is fun.  And I think marking off some quiet areas on the lake as "wake friendly" would be a great idea.  

Name:	Summer Place -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/19/2018 10:27:27 AM

Great to see such a turnout on such a very important thread. Great input from both sides of the issue with lots of  objectivity being displayed. It looks like the majority agree that banning is a bad avenue to undertake and that restriction of use is the best  alternative.

I hope there are people that have the same influence to start a movement in Montgomery to initiate a regulation on the use of wake boats as they did large boats. Summer is gone and fall is around the corner and the lake is once again ours that know it’s true beauty.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/19/2018 11:40:46 AM

Unfortunately our "leaders" are reactive and not pro-active so I don't see anything changing until someone is seriously injured from being slammed into a boat or dock, then it can be "for the children" and some reactionary, over the top legislation will come about. And of course then you will have years of litigation resulting in a "compromise" that will create more problems than it solves and the end result will be we all will pay a premium because of a few inconsiderate idiots who have raised even more inconsiderate, entitled millennials  whose sole focus in life is me, me, me.

Name:	HP HQ -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/20/2018 2:10:05 PM

That's it, paddle boards and paddle boards only!! But I'm certain we'd complain about that too!!

Name:	oneshot -	Reply
Subject:	Wake Boats
Date:	8/20/2018 5:43:14 PM

yep