I need for someone to explain to me how all this hype and hysteria came about regarding the Dadeville treatment plant. There was one post several weeks ago about a film on the water in one slough in Sandy Creek. Redleg responded with his post about the drought and the current not pushing through. He also said they are monitoring the situation. I've not seen another post, newspaper article, radio or tv mentioning pollution. Now folks are trying to get the treatment plant 'shut down'. I read the pdf file of the recent charges against the plant and the remedies already taken, of a weather related, infrequent problem. How do we go from there to 'shut down'. What is your solution? Everybody in Dadeville move out!! Of course from a couple of posts below, we know how some folks feel about the 'locals'. We are all blithering, littering, green with envy, idiots who don't know which side of our bread is buttered. I won't call any names but you know who you are Bob and au67.
You guys sound ridiculous to me. I asked once before, and never got a response, show the FACTS that claim the Dadeville Treatment plant is not in compliance with all state, federal, and local laws and regulations. Do that and I will shut up and donate to your cause. Until then I recommend a weekend of rest, relaxation and quiet self reflection. I HIGHLY recommend Lake Martin, I hear it is great for just such activities.
But if you choose not to take that free advice I have some food for thought. How many OTHER towns and cities upstream return their treated waste water to the creeks, streams and directly into the river?
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| Name: |
Bamaonthelake
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/22/2007 2:58:58 PM
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I am not sure how to respond to this post. I posted the .pdf file just because I ran a search on it and it came up. The way I read the file is that the city of Dadeville was cited and just recently was cited for not making the required changes brought forth in the original citation.
I have a Dadeville address, so a a citizen, I do have a concern about what may be streaming into the lake. I can't speak for upstream because I do not live there. If you have significant proof of other communities that have been cited by the state for improper sewage disposal into the tributeries of Lake Martn please share that information with us.
The .pdf is fact, not a baseless charge that " well others dispose of waste improperly why not attack them instead of Dadeville."
The way I read the file is that Dadveille was found in violation, agreed to the proposed changes then did not follow through on all the proposed changes and were fined. Please help me understand if I missed something.
I am not going to get into a local/I live here on the weekend debate. I live on the lake year round. Of course if local citizens, who do not own land right on the lake have no regard for the water quality because they do not live on lakefront property, they are missing the big picture.
As long as the lake reamins clean it generates much more than if it is too dirty to use. I am not sure maybe there are some local citizens who get some sort of perverse pleasure in knowing that, in their minds " The rich elite are swimming around in my waste!"
I will continue to dig and ask questions. I may return to acknowledge that a big stink, no pun intended, was over nothing. If the City of Dadeville is compliant and are making the neccessary changes that were reccomended then the local government has nothing to worry about.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
LTL-Are you the mayor???
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Date:
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5/22/2007 3:04:12 PM
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If Dadeville is in compliance, why did the State AG sue? Why was a consent decree issued? Why do the creek waters test positive for sewage?
If your answer is that the City only was fined for not reporting dumping, then your logic doesn't make sense. Here's the kicker--The City is supposed to report themselves--did they get fined because they got caught dumping and didn't report it??
LTL, you're not gonna win this war, any more than Dadeville is.
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| Name: |
Bamaonthelake
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| Subject: |
LTL-Are you the mayor???
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Date:
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5/22/2007 3:23:37 PM
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OSS,
Good reply I went back and read the .pdf file I posted earlier. it is pretty clear that not all the problems that the City of Dadeville had were run off realted. If you go back and read the report the city was producing almost twice as much waste as they had been approved to do.
This has nothing to do with upstram events i.e. excessive rains here and upstraem.
Good point on the self reporting as well, the City missed compliance dates to have responses to the State as well as missed guidelines for weather event reporting.
The bottom line to this is the City was cited and instead of taking the violations seriously they blew them off. When the state threatened civil action and fined the city 6500, the city finally looks like they might be serious about solving the issue.
There are some very specific dates that the City must meet in the next year. LTL I will be watching an inquiring about if the city are meeting those dates imposed by the state.
Some enterprising citizen could get hold of this and file another civil case against the city if guidlines are not meet by our representative officials in government.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
LTL-Are you the mayor???
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Date:
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5/22/2007 3:35:46 PM
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I don't see it as a war. What was said is accurate, they were cited, didn't comply fast enough and got a slap on the wrist. The issue with 5 out of 6 citations was a sudden influx of overwhelming amounts of water that caused overflow. Several repairs have been made to alleviate the problem. So why all the hype and hysteria? What you are seeing on the water this year is the same thing that goes in the water all year every year, it is called TREATED WASTE WATER. It is more evident this year because of the drought. Where would you propose they send the treated water?
Virtually everyone I know lives on or makes their living directly or indirectly from the lake, successful business people all. To suggest that we don't care about the lake or just aren't smart enough to realize where our income comes from, well I find that insulting to say the least. And I am sure that I am not alone in these sentiments. I am just more outspoken than most.
And BTW-- the comment about upstream was sarcasm. Sorry you guys aren't sharp enough to catch it.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
LTL
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Date:
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5/22/2007 3:50:08 PM
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You have been very outspoken in your claims that Dadeville had no violations, etc., etc. When cornered with the facts, you try to laugh it off. Where the h*ll were all these concerned Dadeville citizens the past five (5) years--if they care about the Lake they sure haven't shown it.
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| Name: |
Bamaonthelake
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/22/2007 4:33:50 PM
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LTL,
This was your quote: "But if you choose not to take that free advice I have some food for thought. How many OTHER towns and cities upstream return their treated waste water to the creeks, streams and directly into the river?"
That does nto sound like sarcasm to me. You do not know me and you do not know how sharp or dull I am.
I am not so naive to think that communities upstream do not dispose of their treated waste and it doe not end up in streams to the north of us. When I asked you to provide evidence of thos communities being cited by the state officials, you then attacked me and said I did not understand sarcastic remark.
The difference is you have not provided me with evidence that any other community has disregarded the law like the City of Dadeville. They have had numerous opportunities to correc the problem. You keep oging back an explaining that it is a water run off issue. Then when you are confronted with the fact that the city, in the first citation, had the opportunity to report the incidents but did not, you do not see anything wrong with what the City has done or has not done.
The definition of insanity is : "Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results." Sounds like the City of Dadeville or should I say the city officers might fall into this category. Maybe some Life Time folks around here do also.
I would rather be accused of not catching a sarcastic remark (one for the record I do not hink was sarcastic but was made as an unprovable acusation to cities to our north) than crazy.
Keep doing the same things over and over an keep expecting different results LTL. Of course in this case if you are associated with the local goverment get ready because you can still be crazy but you are about to have to start paying for it.
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| Name: |
Pier Pressure
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/22/2007 4:58:03 PM
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Treated waste water to me is not what is being questioned. I have heard some state that they are seeing a film on the water, and that there is a visible sludge on the shore. My observation is two fold, do they understand the difference between films produced by pollen (which is the worse I have ever seen) verses the claim that they have observed raw sewage?
If in fact there is raw sewage being released into the lake then everyone should have a problem with that, as treated wastewater is NOT raw sewage. Why doesn't someone look into some independent testing methodologies instead of just using harsh verbiage?
This is worse than everyone’s "opinions" about big boats. Neither discussion was scientific, both are politically motivated!!!
Let’s see some technical testing facts instead of this lawsuit that someone didn't notify within timeframes.... etc. How about the exact findings of minerals and bio-contaminants in the area questioned?
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/22/2007 5:50:42 PM
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WHEW.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
PP & Cat
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Date:
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5/22/2007 6:18:52 PM
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Tests are performed by individuals with Lake Watch. These tests are posted on a website and available. Lake Watch, as I understand, has some 300 members and is responsible for Alex City cleaning up it's treatment plant. Support this effort to keep the lake clean--it might help keeping your engines from being clogged with "you know what".
Have you guys sent your letters to ADEM---don't say it doesn't involve you!!
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/22/2007 6:45:49 PM
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There are six counts contained in the Civil Action brought by the Attorney General against the City of Dadeville.
Count 1: Discharging Ammonia Nitrogen in excess of weekly and monthly permit limitations. (56 times)
Count 2: Discharging Fecal Coliform in excess of daily and monthly permit limitations. (47 times)
Count 3: Discharging Residual Chlorine in excess of daily permit limitations. (5 times)
Count 4: Discharging Total Suspended Solids in excess of weekly permit limitations. (1 time)
Count 5: Discharge of untreated raw or insufficiently treated sewage without a permit. (5 times)
Count 6: Did not report the unpermitted discharges listed in Count 5. (5 times)
These discharges in violation of permit limitations for Ammonia Nitrogen, Fecal Coliform, Total Residual Chlorine and Total Suspended Solids were measurements taken and reported by the Dadeville Wastewater Treatment Plant personnel.
For anyone on this forum to somehow imply that the problems with the City of Dadeville Wastewater Treatment Plant is somehow based on hearsay is utter madness.
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It was total sarcasm. I have no evidence off any other towns treatment facilities. It was said because you guys are so hysterical. I have not avoided anything. I read the report. I saw the responses. I saw the work going on around town. Those issues were resolved. Maybe not to YOUR satisfaction, but you don't count. Like someone else said, the pollen is still collecting on the lake now. But my favorite was whoever posted about seeing the water "boiling" in Sandy Creek one day. Obviously if folks don't know the difference between shad running or carp wallowing, why should I trust them if they say there is sewage. Or maybe all you guys think the water was really boiling. Maybe the methane was on fire under the water.<sarcasm OFF>
There are two environmental groups and who knows how many AU classes and experiments on the lake on any given day. Have ANY of them released any info about unsafe levels of ANYTHING. Until they do, give it a rest. Or if you think you are so d@mn smart and have all the answers, qualify and RUN FOR OFFICE.
I would also suggest anyone who smells sewage in thier slough should first check your neighbors septic systems. There are still a lot of old 55gal barrels buried in the yards of a lot of the older cabins.
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| Name: |
jrh3
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/22/2007 7:00:18 PM
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I think you have been drinking that lake water for a life time
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
The scary part is...
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Date:
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5/22/2007 7:18:38 PM
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someone like LTL, or maybe LTL himself, is in charge of reporting the violations..
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What I said was show me that they are in violation NOW!
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I have been saying the same thing PP, but hysteria rules the day. I take it personally when the 'locals' are put down like some on the other side of the debate have done. My friends and family live in Dadeville. To some of the Johnny Come Lately Crowd we are a bunch of backward hicks who need them with with their infinite wisdom to come and save us from ourselves.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
Sorry, pal,...
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Date:
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5/22/2007 7:34:24 PM
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the home is calling for you--I hear the sirens now.
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| Name: |
jrh3
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/22/2007 7:42:41 PM
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thak god for the johnny come late other wise it would be the same as is ever was to quote the talking heads I'm sorry you must not be thinking with a clear head for all the lake water consumption that is why you must be saved by us..........
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Sorry, pal,...
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Date:
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5/22/2007 7:43:01 PM
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See, I point out facts, and you make a personal attack. Hmmm..... wonder who has the better argument.
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| Name: |
jrh3
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| Subject: |
Sorry, pal,...
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Date:
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5/22/2007 7:44:54 PM
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your facts are lke fuzzy math
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
Facts???,...
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Date:
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5/22/2007 7:53:59 PM
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Every "fact" you've posted has been proven to be a lie. You are the king of personal attacks. I'm done with you for awhile.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Cut and paste and prove it
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Date:
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5/22/2007 7:55:24 PM
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I dare ya. You can't.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
And BTW.....
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Date:
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5/22/2007 7:56:51 PM
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... just because you don't aggree with it, does not mean it is not a fact!!
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| Name: |
Bamaonthelake
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/22/2007 8:21:41 PM
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LTL you are a hypocrite.
1st you say that the City has cleaned up the violations. That is not true. If you read the court order they have either not replied to the past violations and contiued to ignore the requirements the state has placed on the city.
Secondly you said there were no measurements. GO BACK AND READ THE REPORT. There contiues to be excessive readings in regards to the readings the state took just this month.
Thirdly in a post above this one you say you are a Chrisitan then you pretty much attack everyone that does not agree with your point of view. When a poster posts facts you either laugh them off or you go on a rant about how you are a local and have lived here longer than anyone else etc. etc. etc.
You then attack anyone who has good input and taunt them into running for office, (I guess that is another Christian value you have).
I know your type, any legitimate debate where you do not have the facts you either mock the other person, say you were just being sarcastic, fall back on how many years you have lived here (which just proves the point that if you are a lifelong Dadeville resident with no regard to raw sewage in the lake you have most likely, along with your family put your fair share of waste into the lake) and last but not least you fall back on your Christian values figuring no one will challange YOUR MORAL highground.
I just moved here to Lake Martin to be a part of a beautiful lake. I did not grow up here because I was in the US Military travelling all over the world trying to represnt my country and the values of true Americans.
Do I care if someone retires to lake Martin that is from somewhere else? No as long as they treat others with respect, treasure the still beautiful land and leave this place a little better than when they found it, they are OK with me.
Time will tell if the City of Dadeville is merely playing politics etc. Sure it does not take a lifelong, God fearing Christian with a math degree to figure out with the Lake level down three feet that if we are puting the same or more sewage into the lake, it will be more prevelant. My problem is that Dadeville needs to repair the problem no matter if the lake is at 485 or full pool.
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I have mocked no one. I have read the report, but I like the summary on pages 15-16 the best. It breaks it down so maybe even you could understand it. Like I said, if you can cut and paste to prove me wrong, a liar, or hypocrite (which I hate with a passion) then get busy. Cut it, paste it with factual rebuttal. How many challenges do you need? Like I said though, just because you don't agree doesn't make it not factual. Show me the post where I 'dismissed' something just because I didn't agree with it. You can't do it because it hasn't happened.
I have not lived in Dadeville all my life, but I have been coming to this lake all my life. I moved here full time in 2000 (another drought year). As for polluting the lake, I keep extra trash bags on my boat just to clean up others trash EVERY time I go out. The rule is, bring back more than you take out. I/we ALWAYS do. When was the last time you stopped to clean up a beach just because you saw it trashed as you were passing by? I would bet you NEVER have. I don't even let smokers throw their butts in the lake when I am around. I grew up very near the Coosa river and Logan-Martin and Lay lakes, but still would travel past them to come here. Those lakes are constantly under fish warnings and have even been under swimming warnings in the past for Lay Lake. I know what a polluted lake is, and if I thought there was any real danger being posed to this lake, I would be screaming the loudest.
If your hysteria is warranted, why are Lake Watch and Save Lake Martin not screaming about it?
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/22/2007 10:34:01 PM
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Double Whew!
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"..... wonder who has the better argument. "
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it ain't you!
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| Name: |
Bamaonthelake
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/23/2007 7:28:25 AM
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LTL this was a previous quote from you:
"And BTW-- the comment about upstream was sarcasm. Sorry you guys aren't sharp enough to catch it."
So you can see where the personal attacks stated.
You also said in an earlier post that "all the Johnny come lately's to the lake" should be quiet. In the last post you said you have only lived here since 2000.
If you do not see the ypocristy in your comments then you must work for the Dadeville sweage plant.
In the last comment you talked about how much you clean up around on the lake. You said you bet I never travelled the banks of lake Martin wih a trash bag like you picking up trash/
Let me guess you are now the Christian Trash Picking equivelent to Johnny Apple Seed of Lake Martin.
Why is it that evewryon else on this forum can look at the .pdf file that was posted and see that Dadeville is still under a court order and will still have fine against them for waste water issues that go back at least five years?
You ask someone to cut and paste the points. Go back and read it again. If they do not fix their issues then they could be fined up to 300 dollars a day.
I am sure the Lake Watch groups will get involved.
I just read through the posts and the one thing that is consistent is that everyone but you agrees that that the City of Dadeville has not been in compliance and still has work to do but you.
Obviously you just fdo not get it, want to get it or would rather tell everyone how local you are, how m any trash bags you fill up on your coast line expeditions and add how relisious you are.
I am fairly new to this forum but I can see why others feel the way about they do about you.
Plus by the way what kind of work do you do or who do you work for?
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| Name: |
jrh3
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/23/2007 8:48:43 AM
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He will not say because it will show the hypcrosy of all of his comments. He wants us to cut and paste so he can cut the paste eat it and wash it down with that clean treated lake water from dadeville
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| Name: |
Lakeman
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/23/2007 8:55:15 AM
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PP I think that one of the Lake Watch people already stated that the tested levels have risen over the past several years. I read it in one of the posts at the beginning of these " pollution " threads. Also the " big boats " and " pollution " are seperate issues with " pollution " being the most threatening to the lake.
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| Name: |
Lakeman
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/23/2007 9:02:47 AM
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I think you guys are throwing the baby out with the bath water over personal issues. Some folks like to stir the issue to draw attention away from what is important. Let's stick together on this.
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I moved here fulltime in 2000, before that I was a weekend warrior myself. I never said the JCL's should be quiet, I said you should stop trying to push others around to your way of thinking. Dadeville and the lake got along just fine without you and will continue long after you are gone.
I have NEVER said the WWTP was NOT under court order. I have said that measures have ALREADY been done to alleviate the problem and more are forthcoming. Is Dadeville paying 300/day? NO, because they are in compliance.
If you think no one else on this forum agrees with me you are a fool. I am just the most outspoken. They look at you guys posts and laugh them off as hysterical bullies trying to get their way. And if you think that calling me a Christian is an insult, well that says a lot about you. In fact you are wrong again!! I never said I was a Christian, just that I try to practice Christian morals and values. See how you misread things to fit your own mindset. And yes I/we (and by we I mean all my family and friends) DO make it a practice to pick up trash when we see it at different spots around the lake, and I won't apologize for it.
As for the personal attacks, well maybe they weren't so personal, but the attacks started in two threads below my comment about sarcasm. Only they weren't directed at me, but at all of the 'off lake' residents. Basically it was stated that all of them are trailer trash that probably couldn't even find the lake, are jealous of everyone that lives on the lake and want the lake polluted because they are so eaten up with envy.
I am sure in your life in the Army you got very used to folks doing what you told them to do. You are a civilian now, get used to it. You don't rule here. As for what I do and who I do it for, lets just leave that as a mystery to really eat at you. But I will tell you I DO NOT work for the City of Dadeville or ANY other government agency. Heck, in fact I don't even live in Dadeville. My address is in the Gap and before that my lake address was Alex City.
So have fun while you stress about the little things and I will go on enjoying the lake. And since you are new to the forum I will define fall back position #1 for you:
"Never argue with an idiot, bystanders might not can tell the difference".
I am taking fall back position #1 again.
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| Name: |
Bamaonthelake
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| Subject: |
Pollution
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Date:
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5/23/2007 1:46:09 PM
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I do not see where I have pushed anyone around other than to disagree with you that Dadeville has been fined, continues to dump higher levels than they should and will continue to get fined more if they do not comply.
Thats in the court order. You are the only one who has posted that does not see this. So if I disagree with you there are a lot more people here that share that thought.
I was not questioning Christanity or anyone who beleives in God. I was questioning you on the point that because you are a Chrisitian then you are right in regards to Dadeville dumping into the lake.
I am sure there are many local officials that are Chrisitian but are not doing their job.
You have attacked others on the board other than me. Go back and read my posts YOU are the only one I disagree with. When others on this board have pointed out that you are misled about the city being fined you have attacked them as well.
As far as your comment about the Amry, it is obvious that you have never served in a military unit and understand principled center leadership, why should you you can't even read a court state order and realize that Dadeville contiues to defy the order.
I can assure you as most prior service guys, that if you think a message forum is going to stress out someone who has served in the military you are even more ill informed then you are about the contiued dumping.
I know doubt know that Lake Martin will be here long after I am gone. I just want to make sure that when I am gone it is at least in the shape that is is now if not better.
You on the other hand can continue to suffer from self imposed cranial rectal inversion and hopefully there are fewer of your type than those who want to be informed and keep the lake clean.
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