Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/15/2016 8:22:06 AM

If Trump can pull this off it will be the greatest victory in history of politics.  He will have won running against both parties!!  The people will have voted him in.  What a novel idea!

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/15/2016 1:38:06 PM

Don't think so.   As a general electorate candidate, Trump is incompetent.   As a world leader, he would be a disaster.  If you were to elect him, it would not be a victory for anyone except Donald Trump.  

Everyone else loses.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/15/2016 5:36:10 PM

Copper; if this is your view--Im interested in your thoughts on how wonderful the world will be under Hillary-- Im getting in line for all her handouts & asking her to forgive my kids student loans for 2  masters degrees from Samford; 1 from UAB & Doctorate from Vandy --that will make me smile--YEA CALL THE FED TO PRINT MORE MONEY & WATCH THE NATIONAL DEBT HIT $50 TRILLION--THEN YOU WILL REALLY KNOW WHAT DEPRESSION LOOKS LIKE

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/15/2016 7:20:01 PM

Not speaking about what he will do or how good Pres he will be.  Just saying, he will have beat them all to get there.  The shake up in DC that would be good for this country!

And he may go overboard on some issues, have to back off.  But what we have for two terms, and for the third, are folks going underboard.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/15/2016 7:33:20 PM

Copper, what is it that you are missing about the American people that we are tired that no one in our government is listening to we the people? Why else do you think TRUMP is able to gather his following with the approach he is taking? People are fed up that Washington is not listening.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/15/2016 8:03:56 PM

I think it is pretty clear that we cannot afford the subsidies proposed by Democrats.  There is a time and place to expand and there is a time and place to contract, in my opinion,this is a time to contract on spending. I personally would love to live in a country with free education and heavily subsidized health care and all kinds of other bennies.  But given the state of our economy, it makes no sense to me that this is the right time.  I lived in the DC area when the Clintons were in power.  With Bill's affairs (there many more than Monica), their total lack of respect for the military (they had to order the military outside when Bill visited the Pentagon.  There were reports of senior military officers being asked to pass hor'derves at White House functions).  And Hilary's sense of entitlements rivaled Michelle Obama.). Hilary has spent her life planning to be President, but the fact is, she has no more temperament for it than Trump .

Trump offers a chance to perhaps change the Washington gridlock.  Yes at times he is outrageous,  but some of the greatest military leaders were pretty outrageous and had big egos and that can also work to an advantage as a leader.  He knows that.   Look at the following he has garnered by being outrageous.  

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/15/2016 8:14:57 PM

Seems to me that folks like Archie and Copper have trouble coming to grips with the fact that people are so fed up with politics as usual that they will take a chance on Trump.  Arch can yell all he likes and copper can hit us with calmer, saner rhetoric but the fact is that Trump is much more palatable to many, many voters than an unconvinced felon like HRC.  Sure, it is risky to elect a Trump, but we as a nation have become so risk averse that we end up with essentially a non functioning government.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/15/2016 8:54:30 PM

Exactly right.  Having voted for Obama, I feel like I gave a chance to hope and change, and got nothing.  I'm ready to take a risk on Trump, because I can't see we have anything to gain by 4 more years of the same.  And it remains to be seen how Bernie will further tilt the Democratic Party.  Besides, I enjoy Trump.

Name:	Council Rock Doc -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/15/2016 10:50:28 PM

And Obama cannot and has never been able to keep us safe.  Which of our statements CL is more accurate.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 11:30:41 AM

I have to admit I am not up to speed on Clinton’s approach to college debt, but I would say this:   we had better figure out a way to assist people with the rising costs of higher education or our national work force will not be able to keep up with the rest of the world.  Plus, the indebtedness of so many consumers (related to education costs) is so high that it keeps these graduates from participating in the economy by making a huge chunk of their earnings go to servicing this debt instead of using it to purchase goods & services.   Creating ways for people to reorganize or reduce student loan debt in the future seems to me to be a good idea for the long term growth of the economy.   So does trying to make a good education available to as many people as possible.

I am really happy that Flyfisher’s kids are aiming so high, he must be really proud of them.   I wonder if they and their friends think that all government efforts to lower the costs of education is such a bad idea though.     I wonder why parents of those kids think this is such a bad idea, too. 

I am trying to understand what you say about people being ‘fed up with politics as usual’.   I have long standing objections to the way government operates myself, objections to the nature of politics, and to the increased animosity (is it hatred?) within the electorate.   What gets me really puzzled though is how you can be so cavalier that you would say things like “I’m ready to take the risk of electing Trump”.  

I don’t think I have ever heard of trying to elect a President who was described by his own supporters as a risky & unpredictable man.  It’s as if people are ignoring his personality, his history, and his statements while clinging to some vague hope that he can’t make things worse.   He can.     It’s like you are throwing up your hands and saying ‘I don’t know what we can do, so let’s try electing a wild card and see what happens”.   

If we all agree that the world is becoming a more dangerous place, that the risks & consequences we see are really serious… then being so incautious seems completely contradictory to reason.

I would just as soon board a plane, and randomly select one of the passengers to sit in the pilot’s seat.  Audacity is not the same as leadership.    Confidence in oneself is not good judgement.   The notion that he can simply transform himself from reality TV personality into world leader is beyond magical thinking in my opinion.   The astounding thing is that it appears his supporters aren’t really expecting him to rise above his stage persona, they are ‘willing to take the risk with Trump’.    They are saying they are so discouraged by ‘politics as usual’ that they admit they don’t have confidence in him but will vote for him anyway.   To me “It couldn’t get any worse” doesn’t sound like a good way to choose who you vote for.

If you have a hand full of bad cards, you should be careful about doubling down on your bets.  There is too much at stake.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 12:29:35 PM

I want to be done with this.  You are not changing any minds and obviously see HRC as a good choice among choice.

As my James Carville has paraphrased before on the white board "IT's the Alternative, Stupid"

DT did not become how he is because of a reality show.  He became head of that because of who he is and what he had done.  I will take his business skills, knowledege of building laws good and bad, providing jobs, taking away some jobs because a business did not make it, children, take on terror, take on porous borders, etc, etc, etc over HRK any day.  Any Day. 

These are the two choices, unless the Justice Dept does its job.

But, in the end, I want to be done with this.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 3:01:28 PM (updated 6/16/2016 3:03:56 PM)

It has become somewhat redundant to continue to listen to all the negaitive things you say Trump is going to do as Presiident. When you look at the last eight years, I see a lot of failures but nothing I would classify as great under Obamas' leadership. Washington is full of do nothing politicians whose interest is feathering their own nests. There is a lack of boldness that is needed for America to return to the greatness as we know it. Trump may make a misstep along the way and he will step on a few toes, but the following he has garnered over the last few months is indicative that the American people want a President that is ready to bring about the type of  "change" that has been missing for the last several years. Furthermore, I am amazed that you see Hilary(with all her excess baggage), as a "leader" that can get our nation back on track. We can't survive another four years like the eight we have endured.This post is in response to Copperline.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Copper is now "copy and paste" or CAP
Date:	6/16/2016 4:32:13 PM

CAP, your redundancy is very annoying.  You voted for the o-idiot twice and you've almost ruined the country....single handedly.  Now you want Hilda the B----h to finish the job.  Have you ever been tested for masochistic tendencies.  

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 5:14:33 PM

LaknGulf.... I'm not trying to harass you with my post, sometimes I reply to several writers at the same time.   Nothing was intended to offend you personally.  I am looking forward to this particular chapter ending in November myself.

For people who think I am redundant, just block me.    Nobody is twisting your arm and making you read my posts.

It's called a forum for good reason, you know.  If you want to change the name to Conservative Echo Chamber, you'll have to take that up with the guy who owns the site.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 5:17:25 PM

To Copper; yes i am proud of my 3 kids--they are all successful, have good jobs, pay taxes & contribute to Society--i just wonder where all the $$$ is going to come from to fund these elaborate promises--maybe buy more printing presses for the treasury--or maybe you want to throw in a few thousand

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 5:41:46 PM

You & I both know that printing money isn't the answer.   Changing the tax code is, and doing what we can to grow the economy so that more tax revenues become available will be the primary tools for bringing down the deficit.   As far as throwing in a few thousand, I have and will continue to do so.    I never thought paying taxes was a bad idea, never resented it.  I figured it was the required cost of living in a developed First World nation.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 6:19:40 PM

I know that I am disgusted with the gridlock that we've seen for the last 8 years.  I fail to see how electing Hilary will break that gridlock with a Republican Congress.  Copperline, you seem willing to ignore Hilary's temperment.  You make much of Trump's having been on a reality TV show.  So what?  People didn't seem to feel that Ronald Reagan was an actor at one point.  The Reality show wasn't Trump's only job, and if you think about it, it was a successful show.  I don't think that exempts him from being a good President. 

Yes, I think that educational costs are a problem, but I don't think the answer resides within the governemnt for subsidies.  I think perhaps the educational institutes themselves are the problem and perhaps something is needed to be done there.   Free educaiton is not the answer.  Maybe longer times to pay back the loans.  I paid my way through college and never had any loans.  Not everyone who goes to college ends of up massive educational debt.  I know three young people right now that are in graduate school and will not graduate with big loans. They work their way through and they make the most of their opportunities.  How like our society today for kids to finance their way through and then whine that they can't pay their debts.  A lot like the people who put the key in the door and walked away when their house value went under the size of their mortgage. 

What I like about Trump is this:  he's about doing something and standing up for our country, instead of running around apologizing for our existence.  Yes, some countries will not like us, but most of them don't like us now.  Countries act in their own best interest. 

Name:	JohnGalt -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 8:05:11 PM

What is you plan for changing the tax code? 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 9:08:16 PM

I could go along with something I heard a long time ago.   "All I'd ask for is a Tax Code that could be understood by a guy with a PhD in Economics"....  but seriously, I think we are going to have to quit allowing huge corporate tax breaks and make adjustments such as that.

Name:	JohnGalt -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 9:45:49 PM

So you are saying that there should be a tax code that is simple.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 10:43:06 PM

yes, and that changes in tax policies should favor increased taxes on corporations, closing off complex loopholes, or allowing corporations to skip out on US taxes by moving off-shore.... and not on consumers.  But this is a really complex issue as you know, and I recognize that simply saying 'simpler tax code' is vague.     

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 11:15:03 PM

I agree with your thoughts on education. I know I am old school, but the world has changed by leaps and bounds since my college days (1957-1961). Several months ago I briefly mentioned my experience in achieving my college education. I attended a state college in Alabama receiving a major in chemistry and a minor in math.  My Mother would borrow $100.00 each semester($75.00 for tuition and $25.00 for books). As you can see, college students were able to receive a college degree without accumulating major long term debt. Much unlike today, most all the graduates I knew found jobs in a minimum period of time. The way the cost of a college degree has grown over the years has resulted in massive debt for todays college students. I am not saying that the cost of obtaining a college degree can duplicate the minimum cost experienced during my generation, but there has to be a way to reign in the astromical cost. Just like our National Debt, the cost of a college education has spiraled out of control.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/16/2016 11:58:45 PM

I don’t think I am ignoring H Clinton’s temperament, I just think D Trump’s public behavior makes him highly questionable because he is erratic.   I point out his reality show shtick but only as short hand so I don’t have to mention his World Wrestling Foundation performances or things like his revealing Howard Stern interviews.  I think Trump is now blurring the lines between TV personality and political leader, asking people to believe that because he has been a masterful self-promoter he will also be a statesman.   His demeanor, his behavior don’t bear this out at all.  He’s a showman, not a visionary.

Reagan was an actor, and I always felt that was one of the reasons he was successful politically.  He also was Governor of California before becoming President, so he had a track record of governing to judge him by.   Not so with The Donald.   Only has a resume of flashy real estate deals, including a history of ‘using the bankruptcy laws to his advantage’, & shameless marketing schemes.  He has not created something like a Bill Gates, nor distinguished himself in any way other than making himself rich.  It’s not enough for a President to just be filthy rich and immensely proud of himself.    In fact, it might be dangerous.

I don’t know what college degree you have, but I would bet that the total cost of getting that same degree would be far greater now than when you were working on it.   The costs have spiraled upward, and fewer people are going to able to afford to do it in the future.   It’s not a bad idea to look at this as something we should try to change, is it? 

I don’t know what you mean by apologizing for our existence.   When & how did we do that?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/17/2016 12:21:52 PM (updated 6/17/2016 12:26:43 PM)

I earned my college degrees by working full time and going to school nights and weekends.  At the time,  they didn't have the web option that so many schools now have.  There are many ways that students can cut the cost of college.  They can do two years at a junior or community college.  I did one year of community college while attending HS through an arrangement with my school.  But colleges need to be investigated for their spiraling costs.  And a lot of kids in college are there,not to get an education, but for the social life and the 'experience'.  My niece is attending Rider University in NJ.  THE school tuition is $35000 a year but she is getting a $21000 scholarships a year, and will finish her undergrad with no loans.  I have to say I am appalled by all the additional fees schools now charge --where does that money go?  And if someone like Hilary goes to speak, where does her speakers fee come from?

 It's been well publicized about Obama's tendency to apologize every where he goes.  In fact, much was made recently in the media that he wasn't going to apologize to the Japanese for Hiroshima.  He has been a bit of an embarrassment overseas - bowing to the King of Saudia Arabia and other faux Paul.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/17/2016 4:30:24 PM

Hmm…   I certainly agree that many young folks go to college without enough thought about what degree they want… a huge waste of time, money and effort in my opinion.   One thing about higher education costs is that it will make kids and parents think about the exact purpose of attending college, and make the vague “I don’t know what degree I want yet but I am getting a good college experience” a thing of the past.

Wouldn’t you think those scholarships that are granted by colleges to students are likely to ultimately be funded by federal dollars already?.....  directly (as education department scholarship funds) or indirectly (by tax dollars offsetting operational costs and freeing up Universities to put more money into scholarship funding).   Universities are heavily dependent on outside funding, tuitions costs have been rising in part due to the reduction of overall tax dollars spent on education…shifting the burden to tuition payers.   It could be that up to 60% of your niece’s education is already being covered by tax dollars already…but in the form of grants, not loans. 

I just reviewed the Heritage Foundations “Top Ten Obama Apologies” and a review of the same statements by Politifact.   It doesn’t appear to me that Obama was apologizing for our existence, but he was reviewing our policy mis-steps from the past, diplomatically trying to mend fences and move on.   I think it is imperative that we admit mistaken policies or the unintended consequences of what we do internationally…..   we can’t simply cling to a false narrative that we have never been wrong, or that our actions are always beyond reproach. 

IMO, many other countries dislike us because we are arrogant and too frequently unconcerned with the consequences of what we do when it affects people on the ground.   I think it is right, prudent and ultimately a good idea to face mistakes & address unintended consequences if we propose to be a world leader.   Dictators don't have to admit when they are wrong, democratically elected national leaders should.  

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/18/2016 12:14:39 AM

Who's going to have the priviledge of apologizing for all of Obama's mis-steps?

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/18/2016 12:36:41 AM

I am thinking that will be Hillary Clinton myself.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Buteye
Date:	6/18/2016 12:39:45 AM

I'll apologize for any mis-steps by Obama if you will apologize to those moms and dads who lost their sons and daughters fighting Bush's war in Iraq.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/18/2016 9:08:39 AM

copper....copper...copper........if you ever took econ 101 and/or tax policy you need to go back for a refresher. Tax policy is indeed complex and I don't pretend to know anything about it...... but.......in it's most simple form corporations do not pay taxes, they collect taxes for the gov't in an efficient way... their customers pay the taxes thru the cost of the product. Now taken to the extreme as the Dems like to do......it makes those corps less competitive and the spiral goes down........there is and must be a level of tax collection done in this way but on a relative basis the tax level should not put these corps at a competitive disadvantage especially on the international stage.

With corps holding trillions of $$$$$ in foreign accounts waiting for a better tax treatment here it just seems to this old country boy that we would hit a trifecta if Congress would adjust tax policy so as to repatriate this $$$, make our corps more competitive, create more jobs here, and reduce some of the credit bubble dislocation that is taking place ( some corps are borrowing money to pay dividends for crying out loud 'cause lots of their cash is tied up over seas).

I've often thought that which ever party can find the courage to fix this will enjoy political power for a generation on this job creating move alone..........

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/18/2016 10:21:41 AM

There is no argument that my depth of knowledge about tax policy is pretty shallow.   However, I was thinking that corporations do pay taxes... and engage in exhaustive efforts to avoid paying taxes.   You might argue that they do this in order to keep the costs of their products low, but you could also point to the huge discrepancy between the salaries of their employees and the compensation of their executives to say that the profits aren't always put to use in keeping prices down.    Given the choice between raising prices or decreasing executive compensation, which do you think a good exec should choose? 

The astronomical bonuses, annual salaries, etc of ultra large corporations & hedge fund managers might also be what happens when corporations get favorable tax treatment.

It's a balancing act, for sure.   Conservatives err on the side of not putting too much tax-burden on corporations because they believe it will inpede growth & jobs.   Progressives would err on the side of making sure that corporations use some of their profits for the good of society in general, and not just super-high incomes for their upper crust of executives.   

Then there is the argument that collected tax dollars do create jobs when used for things like education funding & infrastructure development, whereas excess profits are kept in-house by corporations ... to be used to grow only their narrow part of the economy.   

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political Victory in History
Date:	6/18/2016 2:33:07 PM

No reason to continue with this........too many non-germane issues you threw against the wall......but at least you did illustrate that at your core you seem to have a problem with the ying and yang of our captalist based free enterprise system.

You problably would be very comfortable with the approach that Venzuela has been employing over the last few years...to their ultimate ruin. 

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political idiot in History (copperline)
Date:	6/18/2016 3:34:03 PM

Come on rude. Get with the program. All money should be turned over to the government so they can efficiently (haha) redistribute it to their friends, family and donors. That is trickle down economics to liberals. God forbid some CEO get to sock a few million away that his company EARNED when some beaurocrat could be using that to award billions in contracts to cronies.  Not to mention all the "programs" for the poor that could be funded.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Greatest Political idiot in History (copperline)
Date:	6/18/2016 3:50:56 PM

I know.......I know......drank some cheap wine and lost me head..........:-/

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	HEY RUDE
Date:	6/18/2016 7:26:10 PM

Sorry to read you lack understanding of taxes. Here is book that should help you......

JUST FOR RUDE

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	GOOFBUTT
Date:	6/18/2016 9:15:44 PM (updated 6/18/2016 9:16:38 PM)

You're in way over your head just like copperhead.  If all ya'll can do is copy and paste dimokrap simpleton political points within even a smidgen of knowledge on the subject, just backout.  Copper continues to show his lack of knowledge by listing dimokrap talking points without a clue as to the meaning.  Blind faith is nothing more than stupid sheeplike following.....

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Hey GOOFBUTT
Date:	6/18/2016 9:20:14 PM

You're about the least qualified person in America  to apologize for the death of a brave US serviceman.....

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey GOOFBUTT
Date:	6/18/2016 10:32:59 PM

FYI, I enlisted and served my country.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Hey GOOFBUTT
Date:	6/18/2016 10:55:37 PM

Wasn't questioning your service, just your liberal dimokrap affiliations.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey GOOFBUTT and HODJA
Date:	6/18/2016 11:34:26 PM

Glad you cleared that up. Sure confuses Martini's puppet Hodja and his conspriracy theory. You at tle lake this weekend?? Now, that is a stupid dimokrap quetion. If I'm at the lake then you're at the lake.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Hey GOOFBUTT and HODJA
Date:	6/19/2016 8:23:58 AM

Absolutely!!!