| Name: |
MMB
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 9:24:26 AM
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Wow, looks like it will be a short season this year. At this rate, we won't have any water at our dock by the end of the month!
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Given the lack of rain, I'm thrilled with what we have this year. 488 is actually pretty normal for mid July, and way better than the 481 we were looking at 4 years ago at this time.
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 10:04:30 AM
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Considering the lack of rain I think we're lucky to have the current level. Do your rain dance!
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 10:05:16 AM
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Great minds.... Look at the differnce in post times :-)
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 10:10:32 AM
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There's a major drought going on at my house--less than 1 1/2" of rain since the tornadoes on April 27. But, if you look at the APCo website below, you'll see that it appears they're building up the Coosa River lakes at our expense. Happens every year since they have to cool the Gorgas steam plant with Coosa River water and that water gets hotter this time of year and it takes more to cool it so they send our water downstream this time of July and then they'll send Coosa down in August. Also, the Coosa watershed has had more rain recently which helps a bunch. It's all about APCo income.
URL: APCo lake levels
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 10:34:09 AM
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I really have to wonder about these posts regarding the lake level.
Lets get a few things clear. Alabama Power does what FERC tells them to. There are multiple scenarios that are spelled out in the licensing permit they work under. They do not just willy nilly decide to run the generators so they can make more money.
This watershed is something like 3,000 sq miles. Just because your house has or has not had rain does not necessarily reflect what is going on in the entire basin. Last night I had .29" rain in Still Waters, Alex city gague reported zero. Sylacauga reported .55".
Just as important to us is the downstream rainfalls. Obviously more rain in the south, the less the need to send water downstream to keep the Alabama navigable which was established by the Corps of Engineers and in the FERC licensing scenarios.
Frankly, considering the lack of rainfall, we are very blessed to have 488+ at this time.
Before people go popping off their mouths about the lake level, they need to get an education. Your recreational use of this lake is at the bottom of the list. Period. That said, nobody is ignorant of the value the lake has to our areas economy. $89 million in tourism is nothing to take lightly.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 2:20:54 PM
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Muddauber, you are partially correct. FERC gives APCo general guidelines within which to operate each dam. The downstream flow of the Coosa and Tallapoosa are controlled more by the Corps and FERC has little to do with that other than minimum flows from Thurlow and Jordan. The Corps requires 4640 cfs below Montgomery, but it does not tell APCo which river it must come from; therefore, APCo has a great deal of freedom on when, how, and where they draw water from.
BTW, a recent quote from a senior CoE chief indicates that there is little to no navigation on the Alabama River. The river was dredged in '07 for a wood pellet plant in Selma (Lake Martin contributed several feet of its water) and the plant went bankrupt within a year--no navigation since.
And most importantly, recreation does play a large role in lake levels. Maybe in the '50s thru '70s it was a different story, but not anymore. Taxable home values around the lake approach $4 billion dollars; spending by those owners are huge factors in the economies of three counties. Power generation by all of APCo's hydro-generation amount to about 6% of total generation by APCo, which would make Martin's contribution at or less than 1%. Navigation is dead, power generation is minimal, recreation is big.
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| Name: |
MMB
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 6:06:58 PM
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Well said Osms!
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| Name: |
Pontoonfisher
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 7:20:18 PM
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All you crying babys should have purchased a deep water lot. You have nobody to blame but yourself!!!!
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 8:07:32 PM
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ok, Turn off all the power grids so that we can play in the lake. Nope, ain't gonna happen. Personally, I enjoyed a wonderful Saturday on Lake Martin with my family, and so it was 2' down?????? Also, when I got home, my power was on, and the A/C working just fine. Again, today, I go and play on the Alabama River just south of Montgomery. Water was down a little bit, but still enjoyed my Sunday with my family. How blessed we are. Is this a perfect world???? NO, but we are here only for a little while. Don't complain, point or otherwise blame..... Be thankful for what you have! And, when is the last time you looked upon the clouds, and prayed for rain???? Honestly, really lived that momement?? Hopefully, it was before now. Otherwise, I think you are looking to get help from everyone OTHER than the right one. And, the right one can bring you rain.
Jes sayin'. "Take a look, at the Man in the Mirror before you speak".
Respectfully,
Steve
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/10/2011 9:32:32 PM
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Getting a little wordy aren't you CAT? LOL!
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/11/2011 7:24:20 AM (updated 7/11/2011 8:01:30 AM)
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I more than agree recreation plays a huge role. Spring runoff control will always remain number one concern. Just no getting around that. Never have known of any generating lake where recreation was number one priority.
Had not heard that about no one using the navigation. That certaintly should have a factor in things. But navigation is not the only factor in downstream flow rates. So is water quality.
Glad to see the discussions regarding water. That is a resource we need to get much more serious about.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/11/2011 9:36:12 AM
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LOL, yea I guess so. Sunday is my favorite day. I tend to go overboard sometimes.
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| Name: |
Spot Remover
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| Subject: |
Water level
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Date:
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7/11/2011 11:22:22 AM
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West Point Lake's primary function was recreational.
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Dang it Cat
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Date:
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7/11/2011 11:44:22 AM
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Settle down.
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| Name: |
Lifer
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| Subject: |
Hey Mud
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Date:
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7/11/2011 12:47:33 PM
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You sound like me!! APCO is a BUSINESS. Any business by definition exists to create wealth for its owners and or shareholders. Yes, recreation is important to the local economy, but APCO couldn't care less. Flood control will ALWAYS win out. One downstream flood would wipe out any and all economic benefit recreation creates. And if it did flood the same folks that come here and pretend to know better than APCO how to manage the water would be screaming the loudest ready to excoriate APCO for letting it happen. Folks want 490' any month that has a temp over 70 degrees and APCO should listen to them!! Every body else be darned. It's all about me.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Flood control will always win out
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Date:
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7/11/2011 1:24:39 PM
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Not necessarily so...read the link below if you want to fully understand how Lake Martin water level is controlled.
URL: http://www.mcglaw.com/newsletter/judithbryan.pdf
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Something in...
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Date:
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7/11/2011 1:25:43 PM
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that BBQ sauce...
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Interesting fact
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Date:
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7/11/2011 1:29:13 PM
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From the Alabama Supreme Court ruling..."APCo's original license for Martin Dam was issued by
the FPC in 1923 for 50 years. The 1923 license did not
contain any provisions regarding flood control."
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| Name: |
lakngulf
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| Subject: |
Interesting fact
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Date:
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7/11/2011 1:53:59 PM
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Yall are confusing me now.
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| Name: |
Lifer
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| Subject: |
Flood control will always win out
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Date:
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7/11/2011 3:20:27 PM
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You and I must read things differently. What I understood is that APCO did exactly as prescribed by law and fiat to operate the dam responsibly, in accordance with the best known practices at the time. Weather predicting has come a long way in only the 7 years since the event that precipitated the lawsuit, especially in regards to rainfall associated with storms. The new license agreement allows for greater leeway and more prophylactic measures on the part of APCO in regards to "drawdowns" prior to rain events that can/will cause flooding.
Both the trial court and the appellate court ruled/upheld the summary judgement. That says to the farmers, you have no case now go home and farm. So I think I understand where you were coming from in so much as the farmers tried to make it sound like APCO owed them special consideration and APCO failed to provide it, but that argument doesn't hold water, wonderful pun intended :).
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Flood control will always win out
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Date:
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7/11/2011 7:16:15 PM
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I believe we agree...the current license provides only limited flood control.
From a simplistic point of view, why would a farmer plant crops in a floodplain and not expect it to flood!
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
Flood control will always win out
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Date:
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7/12/2011 7:53:27 AM
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Been here 9 years. Have attended numerous lake meetings with COE etc. This thread has been very interesting and informative.
I've tried to search thru various online agencies pubs, too often without success. Good, solid info has come out in this thread.
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| Name: |
Spot Remover
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| Subject: |
Flood control will always win out
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Date:
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7/12/2011 1:45:43 PM
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They plant crops in lowland because that's where the best soil is. Hillsides are not condusive to plant growth, because the rainwater doesn't soak in. It just runs off.
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