Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	AAPS agrees with MM
Date:	7/15/2020 8:56:45 AM

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons suggests a different approach than what you hear from the government.

In a statement released Monday, AAPS had strong words for governors of states with a surge in positive tests like Arizona, Texas, and California where governors have reinstituted lockdowns and mandated mask-wearing. 

“These measures will destroy livelihoods, but there is little evidence that they will save lives,” the group said. 

A better strategy, AAPS says, would be an offensive approach that protects demographics most at risk of exposure and infection, such as medical workers and others on the front-lines, by administering hydroxychloroquine. The statement likens the current situation to that of the HIV/AIDS epidemic of the 1980s. Despite decades of effort, there is no vaccine, but those who had been exposed or might have been exposed to the disease would receive drugs to treat them.  

As the statement points out, a host of peer-reviewed evidence and international studies have shown that the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is being used safely and effectively to prevent COVID-19 in exposed workers. Findings include a significant decline in the risk of coronavirus infection, no significant side-affects from the drug, and five-times fewer deaths. Even a study by Michigan’s own Henry Ford Health System found that 13 percent of those treated with HCQ alone died compared to 26.4 percent not treated with HCQ.  A 50% reduction in deaths for those of you that suffer from TDS.

Cue RHH to tell us AAPS is a bunch of hacks and 99% of "experts" agree with TDS sufferers that Orange Man Bad and HCQ will kill ya and doesn't work because they are anti-science.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Archie’s head is going to explode
Date:	7/15/2020 12:13:57 PM

Thanks for the info.  The 53 studies are interesting to see.  Once the current studies report out, I predict hydroxychloroquine +cpac+zinc will become the standard prescription to a positive.  They ought to all ot teachers to take the hydroxychloroquine as a preventative until vaccine is completed.  

Name:	RHH -	Reply
Subject:	AAPS agrees with MM
Date:	7/15/2020 12:14:02 PM

Non respected conservative fringe group. Research it before you believe MM's blather.
Alabama's Governor just mandated masks. She is slow but a true savant compared to Georgia's Governor.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks for being predictable
Date:	7/15/2020 12:16:33 PM (updated 7/15/2020 12:17:11 PM)

What did I tell you folks?  Are liberals so easy to predict or what?  I assume all the studies they reference are bogus too, right?  You left wing nuts are so predictable that it is really boring.  Fact free as usual.....yawn.....

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/15/2020 3:49:41 PM (updated 7/15/2020 3:53:11 PM)

Just to explain to you anti-science types.  Switzerland started off prescribing HCQ from the outset.  After the phony Lancet article they stopped.  After the Lancet article was proven to have been a fraud they retarted.  France never used HCQ.  Note the two graphs below and the results are stunning.  And note also the two-week delay in the increase in deaths after they stopped and the two-week delay in the decrease in deaths from when they restarted.  And finally note that the only time Switzerland approached France in deaths is when they were off HCQ.  How many people died as a result of the phony Lancet article based on fake data from a left wing nut company that no longer exists?  Tens of thousands?!?!? 

The providers of the data should be charged with manslaughter.  They killed people and so did CDC when they rescinded the emergency order.  And so did the Governors that issued orders to prevent doctors from prescribing HCQ.  All because Orange Man Bad.  Yet another example of a mental illness causing the deaths of innocent people.

Cue RHH telling us that these guys are also right-wing hacks and 99% of experts agree that HCQ doesn't work and Trump is bad.  Admitting you were 100% wrong and Trump was 100% correct would be good for your soul.....but I am not holding my breath.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/15/2020 4:09:30 PM

What is your obsession with this drug?  You have stock in it?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/15/2020 4:17:36 PM

My obsession is that it is cheap, readily available, has been used safely for 40 years and the only reason people opposed it was Trump Derangement Syndrome.  My obsession is that people died because of the hatred of the President and they have that on their heads, not that they care because as Archie said some time ago he was perfectly fine with people dying as long as it hurt Trump's reelection chances.  That is a sickness beyond anything I've ever seen.  The Democrats and the media killed people and they should be held to account for it but they won't.  I am obsessed because I want people to live and not fall prey to the lies of the media and many in govt positions who only care about money and power and don't care about the lives of innocent people.

A better question is why aren't you obsessed with it?  Don't you want people to know the truth.....one that could very well save their lives?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	indeed l am Carlson
Date:	7/15/2020 4:21:06 PM (updated 7/15/2020 4:26:36 PM)

 AAPS has 5000 members and is considered a fringe group by almost all doctors

AMA has 926,000 members and is universally accepted and respected as the gold standard in US medical professional associations

Chemical and Engineering News describes AAPS as “a purveyor of utter nonsense”

Quackwatch list AAPS as “untrustworthy”

Guardian science writer Ben Goldacre says “AAPS’s magazine as the “in-house magazine of rightwing pressure groups”

Carlson, please, please look before you leap...especially if what you are being invited to leap into is a sludge filled pit being provided by the likes of MM!  I, like Hound, will stick with Dr Fauci and medical scientists. The more Trump and his rightwing nut patrol trys to discredit him and them the better they look!

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/15/2020 4:24:45 PM

MM. some folks have their mind made up and don't want the truth.  Political reasons mostly.

my wife takes it for other dx but most healthcare providers take this as a preventative.  But I tell you if I contract the virus you better believe I will find a doc to prescribe the 6 days cocktail.  

some folks can't be helped and.......

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/15/2020 4:31:32 PM

I agree and it is both mystifying and deranged that people hate the President so much or never want to admit they were wrong that they will argue with me about it's value.  And ironically, these are the very same sheeple that insist if you don't wear a mask you are committing murder. You are right, some people can't be helped and politics is the most important thing in their lives.

But I am truly sick to my stomach thinking about the people that needlessly died.  Cheap, readily available, safe and effective......but no, we need to wait for some wonder drug that will cost hundreds of times more or a vaccine that may never be found or will not be available until much later.  I just don't get the lack of outrage and obsession I have about this.....sad and more than a little disgusting.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	''some people have their minds made up
Date:	7/15/2020 6:36:09 PM

and don't want the truth''...Carlson you sure slopped a bib-full on that one!! It perfectly describes 90% of the posters on this forum...sadly you appear to be among them!

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	''some people have their minds made up
Date:	7/15/2020 8:32:51 PM

Wow, Archie, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!  Remember our back-and-forth a few days ago about your comment that Covid 19 death rates were "spiking."  The latest statistics from the CDC, once again, refute your baseless assertion.  As you can see, they are falling significantly and have for each week since they peaked in mid-April.  But hey, just throw out another groundless claim to the contrary it just makes you look like a complete tool!

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/15/2020 9:36:59 PM

As I understand it, it has mixed results.  I view it as a possible treatment - but generally I let the Drs. figure out what I need, given that I am neither a pharmacist or a Dr.  It's not the miracle drug Trump was calling it.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Once again you are looking at lagging stats
Date:	7/15/2020 11:41:02 PM (updated 7/15/2020 11:44:59 PM)

Look at the Johns-Hopkins daily count.  FL, TX and AZ have had their highest single day death totals this week! The death rate is not soaring...yet, but as the huge rise in those testing positive move from test results to appearance of symptoms to hospitalization to the morgue you will see an even greater rise in deaths.  Hopefully it will not get to the rate it was in April and May but if you are one of 500 dead instead of one in 2500 dead you are just as dead.  Take off the rose colored glasses and MAGA cap and look at reality!! Look at Alabama as she moves into one of the places facing a crisis level of infections, your governor is. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/16/2020 9:01:47 AM

This is what happens when you don't read beyond the headlines.  He never called it a wonder drug.  In fact he said it was a potential game changer.  And based on the studies that have used real data it does significantly reduce deaths by at least 50%, which in my view falls well into the game changer category.  I don't know about you but had there only been 70,000 deaths by now instead of 140,000 we would be in a totally different place.  And I also wonder how many fewer cases there would be as a result of people being treated early using htis drug.  But we'll never know will we?

I agree that the decision should be between the patient and the doctor but it was the govt at the state and Federal level that put themselves between them when they declared doctors couldn't prescribe it (either due to TDS or the fake Lancet study).  And look at the increase in the death rate in the U.S. following the CDC revoking the emergency use of HCQ.  I am telling you, people died because of that.  A lot of people.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/16/2020 9:41:25 AM

Wonder drug = game changer.  I watched the press conference when he said it.  You would have thought he owned the company - like a snake oil salesman.  I used to watch his press conferences every day, so I know what he said and how he pushed it.  In retrospect, he was just hoping that it was a game changer.  All this virus is interfering with him being re-elected, the prospects of which are getting dimmer and dimmer.  

It's one of a spectrum of treatments that may not work for everyone.  Obviously, if it was the game changer, we would't still be wearing masks, social distancing and washing our hands every 5 minutes.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Just a coincidence, right?
Date:	7/16/2020 9:41:29 AM

Corresponds with a rise in cases and an eventual rise in deaths.  Maybe a coincidence.....maybe not.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Just a coincidence, right?
Date:	7/16/2020 10:22:19 AM

Maybe, maybe not.  There are other treatments being used to - like when they found out that if they placed people on the stomachs and found they could breathe; the use of blood plasma, etc.  I really don't understand why you are so insistent that this is some kind of big game changer.  All I can think of is that you must have bought a lot of stock in the company hoping it was the game changer Trump said.  Otherwise, why this particular treatment over any other?  I'm not convinced.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Just a coincidence, right?
Date:	7/16/2020 10:52:59 AM

With all the data I have seen - I can not understand why you are so against it.  Do you have stock in some other big pharm?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/16/2020 10:54:42 AM (updated 7/16/2020 10:57:26 AM)

And yet we now know he was right.  That must really hurt.  But he never said wonder drug and no, game changer is not the same thing.  A wonder drug would cure everyone all the time.  A game changer is one that makes a big difference.  So stop being silly like the media.

As for your last sentence, how would we know?  The FDA stopped its use and that is my exact point.  Thank you for making it.  Maybe had that not happened we all wouldn't be wearing masks but we'll never know will we?  We can't undo their stupid, incompetent mistake that was based on a single study that we now know was based on fake data.

But at the end of the day he was right....they were wrong....people needlessly died.  Or are you still denying the science, and if so, why?  Why not admit he was right?  Why is that so hard?

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/16/2020 12:47:51 PM

Hound, I used to think you were open minded but I see that TDS finally infected your thinking.  MM you are absolutely correct.

yall need to review Maj. post on real science!

https://realclimatescience.com/2020/07/new-video-two-paths-to-herd-immunity/

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stunning proof that people needlessly died
Date:	7/16/2020 1:09:20 PM

The thing I don't get and never will is the continued resistence to HCQ.  It is cheap.  It is plentiful.  It is generic so pretty much any pharma company can manufacture it.  It is safe and is considered by WHO to be one of five essential medicines in the world.  And now we have numerous studies from the U.S. and around the world that if properly administered it can reduce mortality by 50% or more.  Despite all that, they continue to wait and hope for a magical drug to treat people or a vaccine, either of which may never come. 

Literally the only reason I can come up with is that they are willing to let people die and lengthen the economic misery for partisan political gain.  Why should we reward that evil with anything other than disgust and punishment at the ballot box.....and yet here we are.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Just a coincidence, right?
Date:	7/16/2020 4:52:05 PM

Nah.....she would just have to admit that Trump was right.  For some reason that is more distasteful than admitting what is obviously true.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Just a coincidence, right?
Date:	7/17/2020 8:09:34 AM

Based on what I have seen recently it may be more about her having to admit she was wrong vs her caring about right or wrong about Trump.