Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	GOP establishment to back Hillary if Trump nominee
Date:	11/29/2015 9:03:04 PM

http://www.wnd.com/2015/11/gop-establishment-to-back-hillary-if-trump-nominee/

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	GOP establishment to back Hillary if Trump nominee
Date:	11/30/2015 1:03:13 AM

I can see that the GOP establishment has a real problem on their hands with Trump, but I don't think they will support a Democrat as a result.   More likely, the big money will  find a way to force Trump out of the race because of the damage he is doing to their brand.  Really, Trump doesn't embody core Republican conservative values...he isn't cautious, he isn't even civil.   And because of those things it's completely unreasonable to think he has the temperment to be the most powerful leader of the free world.  

I don't think the core leaders of the GOP have lost their minds & I don't think they would ever line up behind him... Trump has got to be a huge embarrassment to those donors because he reminds us of one of those outsized characters from Professional Wrestling (with all that boastful exaggeration and puffery) rather than a learned & sober statesman.   

The GOP wants him gone, but they are really afraid of who he will take with him.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	GOP establishment to back Hillary if Trump nominee
Date:	11/30/2015 9:04:26 AM

Somehow I really doubt this story will come to pass.  First of all, there is no such thing as a monolithic GOP establishment.  Some of the squishy donor class may object enough to Trump to not donate or work for him and may not even vote for him.  But I seriously doubt many, if any, will actively support or work for Hillary, much less vote for her.  As for the inside the beltway conservative media, I suspect the same will be true.  They may not help Trump, they may even subtly undermine him, but I can't imagine they would actively support Hillary.  Some may, but that act would never be forgiven.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	GOP establishment to back Hillary if Trump nominee
Date:	11/30/2015 9:52:28 AM

I don't see that happening.  I have liked Trump up until now. But as far as I'm concerned, he is going off the rails lately.  I don't know if he is emboldened by being #1 in the polls, or  if he is taking leave of his senses.  Maybe he needs some rest.  If the GOP finds a way to dump him, he'll run as an independent. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	GOP establishment to back Hillary if Trump nominee
Date:	11/30/2015 10:30:27 AM

He does seem to be getting goofy lately.  You may be right that he needs some rest.  What I find interesting is that he has said a lot of inflammatory things that haven't impacted his numbers.  As much as I hate to say this, i think a portion of his support has been from his celebrity and name recognition and as we get closer to the primaries voters are starting to pay closer attention.  I have long thought that his level of support wouldnt go over about 35% or so and that as the field shrinks those votes would go to the other GOP candidates and not to Trump.

I too fear a run as an independent because that would virtually insure Hillary wins.  His promise not to run based on being treated fairly always leaves it to his subjective opinion of what fairly means to him.  Is he a stalking horse for Hillary?  My answer would be yes if he doesn't get the nomination and runs third party.  I will be convinced that was his plan all along and he never imagined getting this much support.  Either way he has forced the others to address illegal immigration which is a big deal to a lot of voters.  The next question is if he doesn't get the nomination and doesn't go third party will the RNC let him have a prominent speaking spot at the convention?  If they don't, they will alienate his supporters like they did with Ron Paul.  Will be interesting to watch.

Name:	John boy -	Reply
Subject:	GOP establishment to back Hillary if Trump nominee
Date:	11/30/2015 3:27:46 PM

From talking to a lot of people there are a lot of "closet Trump voters" that will vote for him that dont speak out on polls, We will have to wait until Iowa has its election to really see how much support he really has.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	GOP establishment to back Hillary if Trump nominee
Date:	11/30/2015 4:52:27 PM

I am not sure Iowa is the key to whether he gets the nomination because of the goofy process.  It rewards a candidate for the zealousness of their core supporters and hasn't done a good job picking the eventual nominee.  NH or SC may be the better test of his true support.  Either way it is going to be interesting to see how this works out.  At the end of the day Cruz may be the big beneficiary if Trump craters for some reason.  He has been assiduously avoiding alienating Trump supporters and is clearly not an establishment guy and may be acceptable to them, much more so than Carson, Rubio, Christie et al.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Hound
Date:	11/30/2015 7:59:36 PM (updated 11/30/2015 8:10:00 PM)

IMHO Trump has been off the rails from the beginning, the last week or so he's fallen off the trestle into the revine.  As for him running as an independent, well that is what keeps the GOP's up at night and gives the Democrats sweet dreams.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hound
Date:	11/30/2015 10:07:41 PM

I think he voiced what a lot of people were thinking.  He inspires confidence that he will actually do something.  In the beginning, some of it was just his style - he knows how to manipulate the media and he knows that any press is good press at this stage in the campaign.  But I am afraid that this latest think with  the "thousands" of Muslims dancing in the streets of NJ on 9/11, and then his making fun of a disabled reporter going a bit far.  His biggest problem is that he cannot bear to back down. 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Hound
Date:	11/30/2015 11:10:10 PM

I agree that he doesn't have the capacity to admit when he is wrong.   He also has no capacity for honest self-reflection and seems to believe that the Truth is simply whatever he says it is...   I'm surprised more people don't think these character traits are too big to ignore.   I think The Donald started his Presidential bid just to expand the Trump brand, and somewhere along the line he began to believe he could actually be the greatest president of all time...  

He has the dangerous kind of self-confidence, and absolutely no regard for the consequences of his actions.  That is a really bad combination....

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015

Donald Trump, Carly Fiorino, Ben Carson and Ted Cruz are Four of the most frightening people to ever be given serious consideration for the most powerful position in the world!  A power mad egotist liar, a hateful liar, a cluless liar and Joe McCarthy re-incarnated!

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Hound
Date:	12/1/2015 7:24:57 AM

Copper, remove the three words "The Donald" and "Trump" from your post, and you have the biography of our current president, Barack Hussein Obama.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 8:43:37 AM

Ted Cruz scares me to death.  And I never thought that Ben Carson was going anywhere, despite his poll numbers.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 9:07:57 AM

Whoa Archie.  Never thought I would see the day.  You are suggesting that a LIAR should NOT be President.  You and I agree, wow! 

Can we get a video of that?

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 10:25:19 AM

Don't you understand that Democrat Party liars are a different ilk? Proficiency in lying is a prerequisite for membership, and those that are really good at it are to be respected for their gifted talent.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 11:24:57 AM

Other than saying "you can keep your doctor under my plan" (I'm sure you consider that a lie even though it was not an actual intentional untruth but a mis-statement based on incorrect assumption) please give us even one example of when Obama has told an actual lie.  Keep in mind that a statement of a policy decision on an issue which later circumstances cause to be changed have never been interpreted as a lie.  A change of your mind or opinion is not a lie.  I am talking about a bald faced straight forward lie equal to one of whoppers recently spouted by any number of the GOP field. Put your money where your claims are.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 11:38:11 AM

I was not referring to Oblamer, but could find info even with all your disclaimers, if I wanted to.

Come to think of it he liked the video too.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 12:11:59 PM

Yeah yeah I know you are referring to the "Democrat" Party in general...I am referring to Obama.  I am not very good with Google...as I say put your money where your claims are...give me a couple of real examples of an Obama lie.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 12:27:40 PM

Like I say, he liked the video too.

You can keep your doctor is a lie, was a lie and he knew it was a lie

Premiums will go down, is a lie, was a lie, and he knew it was a lie

But I was referring to your front runner, Liar in Chief.  You and I agree that a liar is not fit to be president.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 12:31:03 PM

Agree with your assessment of Cruz.   With all of the attention going to outlandish Trump behavior, he has gotten a pass so far.   But he really is scary.   A great orator, but driven by really extreme views on both politics and religion... and nobody remembers that he orchestrated a shut down of the government costing about a billion dollars... and then taunted us by holding Congress hostage while he read Dr. Suess.   

He is flat out frightening because he has a future in politics... while Trump probably does not.

And he really reminds me of that villain in Batman comics.... The Penguin.  LOL

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 12:50:37 PM

When did he say premiums will go down? He didn't. He said the increase in premiums would slow...they have.

Appears as if you pulling the usual and changing the subject.  One more time...when did Obama tell a verifiable lie.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 2:05:06 PM

You are the one who keeps changing the subject to Oblamer.  Read my post, not au67 post.  I said you and I agree that a liar should not be president.  No names were mentioned.  So we agree. I am glad you see it my way. 

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Amen!!
Date:	12/1/2015 2:51:03 PM

The average american family will save $2500 a year. The riots were because of a video. The earth is warming and man is responsible. I never heard those sermons. I didn't know those were his views. I didn't know bill Ayers. He was just some guy in the neighborhood. I was editor of Harvard law review. There wasnt a smidgen of corruption at the IRS. The police acted stupidly. Michelle is a woman. OK, that one MAY be true....lol. I didn't even have to strain my brain to get these.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	you will have to do better than that!!
Date:	12/1/2015 3:20:15 PM (updated 12/1/2015 4:24:30 PM)

I'm glad you didn't strain your brain, because either he didn't actually say it, he did say it but there is no way to verify it as untrue, he did say it and it in fact is true, or it was a policy statement that was negated or changed by later information.  Obama himself never said the Bengazi tragedy was due to a video. Susan Rice said it based on the CIA's initial findings that were to be made public (remember W's WMD in Iraq...was he lying?...goose / gander etc!).

Repeating a false claim does not make it any less false.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	you will have to do better than that!!
Date:	12/1/2015 4:46:39 PM

You mean false statements like there were no WMD's in Iraq? But you are right I can't "proove" he heard those sermons except he was there every Sunday for twenty years. It must be nice living in a world where you don't have to be bound by reason or reality.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	you will have to do better than that!!
Date:	12/1/2015 5:15:01 PM

Archy.....this really is not worth my time trying to blow the fog from your brain, but I do want to see you tie yourself into a pretzel to explain these lies away.

* "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of the President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability. preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of ther United States"

* " I cannot pass amenesty thru executive action......" repeated 22 times

* " With OBC we will reduce your premiums by $2500 per family per year".......repeated 22 times

* " Because of OBC, over the last two years, health care premiums have gone up... it's true..but they've gone up slower than any time in the last 50 years"

* " Not one dime of OBC will go for abortions"....repeated 12 times.....1036 OBC plans cover abortions......Dem congressman Stupak lost his seat because this goober.

* " I've written two books...I actually wrote them myself"   " Obama was that literary genius who couldn't get his his nouns and verbs to agree." Jack Cashill

* " So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Al." In March 2007, Obama claimed the 1965 events in Selma inspired his parents to get together. He was born 4 years earlier in 1961.

* " We have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas".......not til 2025

Let the pretzel making and prevarications begin.........

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	you will have to do better than that!!
Date:	12/1/2015 7:29:47 PM (updated 12/1/2015 7:47:43 PM)

Whoa, rude has the goods!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	you will have to do better than that!!
Date:	12/1/2015 8:00:02 PM

Right up there with "mission accomplished" and "you are doing a great job Brownie!" 

Face it, they all lie. 

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	you will have to do better than that!!
Date:	12/1/2015 8:02:01 PM

Rude, I had contemplated giving Archy a similar reply, but convinced myself it would be a waste of time.  He is obviously totally unaware of what has been going on the last seven years or there is a medical condition we are not privy to.

On another subject, why did you all get rid of your coach?  We are sticking with ours and we may have a losing season.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	you will have to do better than that!!
Date:	12/1/2015 8:03:45 PM (updated 12/1/2015 8:07:52 PM)

No, I mean false statements that there were in fact WMDs in Iraq at the time W was gearing up to invade when in reality there were not...that is a fact even if you and a few other non-truthers on this forum refuse to accept it.  I do not judge whether Bush knew the intell was cooked nor do I judge whether Rice knew the intell was cooked, I have my suspicions in each case, but I do not know.

Now, kindly give verifiable evidence that Obama was in his church every Sunday for 20 years, or that Obama said he was in church every Sunday for 20 years, or that anybody else other than you ever said Obama was in church every Sunday for 20 years!  The gullibility of the knownothings on this forum is breathtaking!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	you will have to do better than that!!
Date:	12/1/2015 8:53:59 PM (updated 12/1/2015 9:06:28 PM)

Ok, it's not worth my time digging through the mush in your cranium but l will waste it because you have made some comments that are, shall say, a bit mushy themselves.

Obama took the oath...whether or not he has lived up to it is opinion, not truth or lie.

Obama has not given anybody amnesty, he issued an executive order intstructing the DoJ to use selective enforcement regarding some immigration statutes.  His actions have been challenged in court and l suspect if the courts ultimately rule that he overstepped his authority he will accept their decision.  Not sure we could say the same of some of the current GOP field...ie. Ted Cruz

Obama did not say the ACA would reduce all insurance premiums $2500.  He did say it was estimated that the law would save $2500 in premium increases.  Premium increases have dropped sharply.  Of course since there is no way to know what the increases would have been had the law not gone into effect, it is not possible to prove the $2500 figure is or is not correct.  Regardless, it is not a lie but an expression of opinion based on best evidence info from sources other than Obama himself.

Premiums, on average, continue to go up but at the slowest rate of increase in decades.

No government funds in the form of premium subsidies go for abortions.  every single individual who has purchased health insurance through the exchanges has purshased a policy from a private company (there is no public alternative choice).  Many of these private policies cover abortions (sorry about that) but no subsidy money goes toward such procedures. No where does the law say private insurance companies could no longer cover abortions.

Obama has written 2 books...are you saying he lied about writing them?  Where is your proof?

I have never heard Obama claim that his parents were inspired to get together by the events in Selma.  Where did you get this information...from Breitbart?

Obama did not say he had doubled the distance the miles cars get on a gallon of gas...he said his administration had put in place auto fuel efficiency standards that will double auto milage in 25 years.  You have 21 years to wait before you can say for certainty he ''lied''.

Context is really really really important as is accurate quotes.

Hope this straightens you pretzel a bit but am not holding my breath.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	au67
Date:	12/1/2015 9:33:11 PM

au67.........yeah, got tired of shoveling stuff in the barn and decided I'd shovel a little here!

Regards Richt............it's the darnest thing about the firing, and deeply disappointing to a lot of Dawgs..........if the seniors win a bowl game, they will have won 40 games in their career!!! But, as with other schools if you don't win the big games and a few chaspionships, it doesn't sit well with the big money guys that influence the Athletic Dept. The AD looked like a deer in the head lights at the classy press conference that Richt gave on Mon. See where Richt has already started interviewing with other schools. Some are calling for Richt to replace the AD.......!

Stranger still is how the sports writers for the AJC have been dogging this story for some time now, but going real easy on GT coach Johnson who has a losing record this year.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	LNG
Date:	12/1/2015 9:34:31 PM

Hey.......thought you woulda had a ditty about this guy already............

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Oops....found some more
Date:	12/1/2015 10:08:20 PM

* "We'll have the (health care) negotiations televised on C-Span" ....candidate Obama promised no fewer than 8 times this would happen.

* "If I'm the Dem Nominee, I will aggressively pursue an aggreement with the Repub nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election".....pledged on Sept 2007, broke it in June 2008.

* "My father left my family when I was 2 yrs old"......mom and new born son moved to Seattle within weeks of the birth

* BHO blames Pentagon for lack of ISIS strategy..........Pentagon responds" What the f--- was that.......we have given lots of options, he just hasn't acted on any of them"

* "Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this Presidency."...........David Sanger, veteran Chief Washington Corresp of NYTimes..............."This is the most closed, control freak Administration I've ever covered" It has been said that this one has been violated more than a goat at a progressive Taliban bachelor party.

I'm gonna type this slow for you...........everytime Obama violates the Constitution he is making a lie of the  oath he took:

Five of the top 10 Constitutional violations.....just in 2013: 1) Delay of OBC out of pocket caps, 2) Delay of OBC employer mandate, 3) Delay of OBC insurance requirements, 4) Exemption of Congress from OBC, 5) Expansion of the employer mandate penalty thru IRS regulation........ I. Shapiro, editor-in-chief of Cato Supreme Court Review

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Oops....found some more
Date:	12/1/2015 11:45:42 PM (updated 12/1/2015 11:46:09 PM)

When did failing to deliver on a political promise become a lie? Since when did saying something stupid become a lie? These are laughable and/or incorrect and/or opinion not fact.  The stupidest of these claims is the one about ISIS strategy...you may have some retired rightwing colonel popping off on Faux News along the lines you state but any active duty military leader who said such would be liable to Court Martial.

You are boring and make me drowsey...I'm going to bed

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Archy the Pretzel man
Date:	12/2/2015 9:50:55 AM

Getting more difficult to make those angles isn't it??

Since you made a demand for BHO's lies.....here are some more:

* "I didn't set a red line"

* " We need to close the revolving door that let's lobbyists come into gov't freely"

* "Not even a smidgen of corruption".......in regards to the IRS scandal

* " If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what." (This hydra headed lie got BHO elected)

Just as a refresher for you;

Lie......A false statement, or ACTION, especially one made with intent to deceive. Anything that gives or is meant to give a false impression.

* " We revealed to the American people EXACTLY what we understood at the time".....a lie about his original Benghazi lie

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Archy the Pretzel man
Date:	12/2/2015 11:58:35 AM

Maybe this is the issue

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Archy the Pretzel man
Date:	12/2/2015 4:38:45 PM

LNG..........you may be on to something there............but better be careful, Archy won't like being referred to as a "useful idiot"..........referred to in the true historical context of course!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Archy the Pretzel man
Date:	12/3/2015 8:53:06 AM (updated 12/3/2015 9:23:18 AM)

More nonsense from the rightwing cosmos.  You along with Trump, Fiorino and Carson obviously still do not understand what a actual LIE is. Interesting that there is absolutely no effort to refute my clarifications of the Obama "lies" you claim.

Now I plan to take my north GA grandma's advice. "Ye don't never git ahead arguein with a fencepost...'specially if hits a dumb fence-post!"

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Whoa...found some more
Date:	12/3/2015 12:05:01 PM

* BHO.. "Fast and Furious began under the Bush Adminstration" .........False per PolitiFact Florida..."Fand F began in 2009.."

* BHO 2008 campaign statement " I believe that marriage is the union between of a man and a woman. Now as a Christian it is also a sacred union. God's in the mix."..... 'David Axlerod may have opened a  can of worms for BHO in his new book......he knew Obama was in favor of same sex marriage during the first campaign....even as BHO publicly said he ONLY supported civil unions. Axlerod counseled him to conceal that position'. Your evolve argument just went up in the fog that has your brain clouded.

Reminder for you Archy....a lie is a false statement or action, especially one made with intent to deceive.....

I sure hope the next time I need the services of an Architect......if in fact you are one..........that I don't have the misfortune of getting someone with your very serious character flaws.............

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	sorry, I can't resist
Date:	12/3/2015 12:47:05 PM (updated 12/3/2015 12:50:23 PM)

This one is too easy...

F and F was proposed and planned during the Bush years but not implemented until Obama was in office

As to marriage...that is not called a "lie" ( even by your own definition)...it is called "changing your mind, changing your belief, changing your opinion"...it's part of human nature, l bet even you are guilty of such. I am glad you don't think for a moment that David Axelrod is telling certain truth while assuming everything his client says is a lie.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	sorry, I can't resist
Date:	12/3/2015 3:45:07 PM

......."with intent to deceive".....fence post!