Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Right on cue....step one to death panels
Date:	7/9/2015 9:10:42 AM

So dear leader has imperially decided to have Medicare pay for end of life counseling.  Sounds reasonable, right?  Pay for doctors and counselors to give seniors advice on end of life options.  No problem there.  But wait, of course we must make sure the counselors are properly "trained".  Said training will initially be benign and mostly helpful.  Over time, the ACA panel will modify the training to direct people to avoid costly and "unnecessary" treatment that might extend their lives.  Then the final evolution to the counselors telling seniors what treatment they can and cannot have based on the guidance.   Take the blue pill Grandma............

Mark this announcement as the first step to death panels under the guise of end of life counseling.  All evil is wrapped in the veneer of some good.  How quickly this happens depends on who our next president is.  If it is Hillary, before the end of her first (and hopefully last) term the counseling will evolve into mandating what level of care and treatment seniors can get.  And that my friends is the death panel.  And then our final negative prediction about Obamacare (to go along with the dozens of others that have already happened) will too become a reality.  Repeal and replace before it is too late.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I think
Date:	7/9/2015 11:42:14 AM

that you need to do some research on end of life.  It is unfortunate but true that many elderly are subjected to "life-saving" procedures that cost a fortune but will not ultimately change the outcome.  We're talking about people with alzheimer's and are so out of it that they cannot make their wishes known.  They are put on life support for weeks, sometimes because because their families do not know their wishes and cannot bear to make the decision to end life support.  Not everyone has end of life directives.   It's time the elderly were allowed to die with dignity.  And counseling on end of life choices will allow that to happen.

This business that you and others are putting forth about "death panels" is nothing more than BS.

Name:	waterph -	Reply
Subject:	I think
Date:	7/9/2015 12:15:03 PM

My neighbor's mother is in her eighties ; does not have dementia; and Medicare would not approve a hip replacement.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Watch and wait
Date:	7/9/2015 12:56:58 PM (updated 7/9/2015 1:04:12 PM)

There is a reason the elderly in many European countries beg their families not to send them to the hospital out of the legitimate fear they won't come out alive.  You wait and see when your counselor tells you how the treatment you want is not available because you are too old and they inform you on how to die with dignity.  As I said, it will initially be benign but will quickly evolve into death panels.  Keep your head in the sand......maybe you will be lucky and go before it happens.  But it will happen.  The first step has occurred.

Oh and by the way, I can't tell you how many supporters of Obaamcare told me that the cost increases I predicted would result that it was BS.  Your BS today will be my I told you so tomorrow.  Alternatively you can pull your head out of the sand and accept the inevitable evolution of this lousy law.  Been right with 100% of my predictions, still counting all the lies told by Obama and now we will soon see GF's last weak defense of Obamacare go down the drain with all his others.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I think
Date:	7/9/2015 1:01:35 PM

That's because Medicare is projecting a $28T deficit between what they take in and the costs that the program will incur.  Only way to fix that is to raise taxes which is not easy or ration care.  Sorry to hear about this but sadly much worse is coming.  But hey, the government is in charge of our health care now......what could go wrong?

Wait until they tell her they don't approve some life saving treatment because she is too old.  Like Obama said, take the blue pill and stop being a drag on society.  Some unelected, unaccountable government employee has determined she has lived long enough.  Just around the corner.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	I think BS is too polite a term Hound
Date:	7/9/2015 2:22:04 PM

Sarah Palin haunts the forum......

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Your neighbor needs to get an attorney
Date:	7/9/2015 2:24:59 PM

We are going to visit an 88 year old friend tonight who just had a hip replacement paid by Medicare.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	MM please give verifiable evidence for your claim
Date:	7/9/2015 2:32:53 PM

I spent the month of May traveling in the UK and had numerous discussions with Brits about their NHS.  Almost all had complaints but to a person they all said they would not exchange their healthcare system for what we have in the US and not a single one, including several who l assume to be well past 75, made any mention of fearing to go into the hospital or ever having been denied or having to wait for needed procedures.

Just because Rush, Breitbart or Sarah Palin says it don't make it true...usually just the opposite!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Your neighbor needs to get an attorney
Date:	7/9/2015 2:53:38 PM

My MIL had hip replacement surgery at age 86 paid for by Medicare.  Unfortunately, if you are put under anesthesia and you even have the beginnings of dementia, the anesthesia can put you into full blown demensia when you wake up.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I think BS is too polite a term Hound
Date:	7/9/2015 3:01:53 PM

I know some elderly Europeans and I've never heard any of them express concern about going into the hospital because of their health care system.  What I do hear them worry about and what everyone should worry about is going into the hospital for one thing, and dying when you contract a antibiotic resistent virus..... (next thing you know, MM will be saying that his "death panels" direct that the elderly are exposed so they will die).

And by the way, could someone please explain to me why it would make sense to put an alzheimer patient on life support? 

Name:	waterph -	Reply
Subject:	I think BS is too polite a term Hound
Date:	7/9/2015 4:19:25 PM

So, anyone in the first stages of Alheizmers should be denied a hip replacement? Glen Campbell, late stages, should not be elgible for hip replacement, heart surgery, or full time care unless his family elects to use family funds.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I think BS is too polite a term Hound
Date:	7/9/2015 5:45:39 PM

Because of the effects of anesthsia on alzheimers, it is extremely unlikely that a surgeon would be willing to perform surgery because of the likely negative outcome on the brain.  I don't have any problem with Glenn Campbell getting late stage care.  I  don't know if he is paying for it himself or if it is covered by insurance, do you?  But that is not what we are talking about.  I am talking about people with end stage disease ending up on life support for weeks or months.  Even if they survive they will still have end stage disease.  Who would want to live like that, given other options?

I had a family situation with the effects of anethesia on dementia and alzheimers.  First was very mild dementia (still living independently) followed with heart surgery (life or death).  The results of that surgery were loss of independent living and midrange dementia.  Next, there was hip replacement surgery, which left my family member with full blown alzheimers, in a lock down unit.  That progressed quickly into end stage alzheimers.  Family member eventually contracted pneumonia and family made the decision to let family member go in peace.  So much better than hospitalization and life support at the end of life. 

Name:	waterph -	Reply
Subject:	I think BS is too polite a term Hound
Date:	7/9/2015 7:08:16 PM

Agree!