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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
fact for archie
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Date:
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3/10/2013 10:25:00 AM
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Today there are 3 million less people working today than when Obama took office. Tell me again how many jobs were created. That should be the only measure. You should be so proud of such failed policies.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
He only counts created jobs
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Date:
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3/10/2013 1:32:12 PM
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And actually I believe there are ~8.5 million less working today that when he took office and the number of discouraged workers that have given up ever finding a job is about equal to the number of jobs created. But for some reason he ignores those that have left the workforce but would like to work. That's the U6 number that is closer to the truth.
On another front, and yet another example of the affirmative action president, one needs to look at the quality of the jobs created. A much larger percentage of them are part time, likely due to wanting to avoid Obamacare. I seem to recall all the derision about Bush's job creation being at McDonalds, which of course was not true. But for some reason today those kind of jobs are really great. Why is it that TOTUS is held to such a lower standard of performance by white liberals? I just don't get it......
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
an actual accurate fact for MM and WW
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Date:
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3/10/2013 8:39:09 PM (updated 3/10/2013 9:11:10 PM)
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You guys never fail to amaze. You really need to follow Erick Erickson's advice...do your research before you step in it.
Number of people employed in the USA: (ref BLS)
Jan 1 2008 (beginning of W's last year) 138,000,000
Jan 1 2009 (beginning of Obama's first year) 132,600,000 (decrease of 5,400,000)
March 1 2013 135,050,000 (increase of 2,450,000)
WW, perhaps you actually meant to say that there are fewer employed today than, not at the beginning of Obama's term, but the beginning of the end of W's term. Is that possibly what you actually intended to say? I'll bet it was WW, since you are such a stickler for accuracy, objectivity and fair-play.
MM, maybe you make it a policy to consult with WW on his math before he pops off. ;>)
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Made up numbers
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Date:
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3/10/2013 9:27:38 PM
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Look at the labor participation rate Archie. 8.5 million less people working than when TOTUS was first inaugurated. Sorry dude, but it's all right there for you to see.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Made up numbers..oh no!
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Date:
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3/10/2013 10:00:45 PM (updated 3/10/2013 10:08:36 PM)
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How can someone with your apparent integrity repeat WW's bogus claim? It's all right there for you to see MM...Bureau of Labor Statistics, LOOK IT UP!! WW said "THERE 3 MILLION LESS PEOPLE WORKING TODAY THAN WHEN OBAMA TOOK OFFICE." That is an absolutely FALSE claim. There are actually almost 2.5 million more working today than in Jan 2009. WW did not speak of comparing the number of people, working and not working, in the labor force...he spoke of comparing the number of people actually employed. You and the other forum right wingers can base your efforts to persuade on repeated incorrect statements if that is the way, sad though it be, you wish to play the game...I will continue to call you on it when I see it.
MM, do you really want to build your house on sand?
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
You guys have got me going
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Date:
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3/10/2013 10:48:43 PM (updated 3/10/2013 10:55:38 PM)
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A few more stats from the BLS:
In Jan. 2009 there were 133.6 million working. The low point was Feb 2010 (exactly 3 years ago last month) when 129.3 million were employed. Since then the total number of employed has increased just under 5.75 million to 135.05 million (1.92 million / yr). If that continues for the next 4 years we will have gained about 13.5 million jobs which equates to 10.5% increase from the Feb 2010 low point of the recession or a 7% increase from Jan 2009. Is that good? Maybe not, but it is one heck of a lot better than either Bush and not that much off the 16 million of Reagan's years. Way under Clinton and, believe it or not, Carter, but a lot better than you will ever admit is possible under Obama.
Sorry to be a bore, but it really gets my goat when somebody tries to win an argument with false numbers and then keeps using the same phony numbers to argue the same point after it has been demonstrated that their talking points "facts" are not "factual".
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
you are hopeless
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Date:
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3/11/2013 7:32:21 AM
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
you are hopeless WW
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Date:
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3/11/2013 7:50:21 AM
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and so blinded by extreme partisanship that you are completely unable to accept truth and reality unless they align with your mindset and your partisan talking points. Not good WW, not good at all.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Look at the labor participation rate Archie
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Date:
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3/11/2013 9:03:23 AM
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I know that number really bothers you because it shows the truth of what has happened in the Obameconomy. Why don't you ever look at that number?
Kind of like why you never answer my question about your low expectations for our affirmative action president. Why is that? What are you hiding? Its a simple question really. Maybe the answer is you have a different set of standards for a Democrat. That would make you a run of the mill liberal. Maybe its something else.
As for me, I have the same set of standards and he has been a miserable failure and has presided over the worst recovery since FDR. Why don't you ever refute that instead of gnawing on the one bone that you think makes him a success? It is all very curious to me.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
you are describing yourself
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Date:
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3/11/2013 3:36:11 PM
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Look in the mirror. You are so focused on proving your parties liberal socialist agenda is working, when it is not, you refuse to accept the real facts. Your boy's policies have been a failure and disaster for this country.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
We have discussed it before
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Date:
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3/11/2013 6:56:46 PM (updated 3/11/2013 7:04:40 PM)
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ad infinitum. It is going down...I know...it is largely, not entirely, but largely because of the poor economy... I know...it is not good...I know...it was going down for months before Obama was elected...you know it too but don't like to think about it.
OK, now, what does that have to do with WW's completely, absolutely, 100% false, unrelated claim that a smaller number of people were working today than when Obama was sworn in? MM do you believe WW or the statistics of the BLS?
Do you ever get tired of throwing up smokescreens to hide the inconvenient truth? Have you always found difficult or impossible to say "yes you are right in what you say, but...." before you change the conversation to something that you are more comfortable with?
I have answered your constant questions about "why I have such low expectations of Obama". I have on many occasions made it clear am disappointed in the Obama recovery but also am grateful it is a strong as it is considering the headwinds he has faced from day one in the Senate which refuses to let anything they oppose get voted on and for half his term in the House. I have pointed out the stats which indicate the recovery is slightly below average if considered from the beginning of the term but a bit above average if taken from the low point of Feb 2010.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Just answer this WW
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Date:
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3/11/2013 7:07:02 PM (updated 3/11/2013 7:21:02 PM)
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Do you still claim that the "real fact" is there are 3 million fewer people working today than on Jan 20, 2008? Do you deny the BLS stats which show that there are actually 2.45 million more people working? Today there are 3 million fewer working than in Jan 2008 when W began his last year...but that was not your claim...make Obama look awful but don't injure the "legacy" of a Republican. Is it within your intestinal ability to admit the truth...to admit that you misspoke in your original post addressed specifically to me which started this discussion? Since you addressed the post to me did you not expect me to respond? Get your facts straight WW then go for it. I might not like your facts but if they are correct you will get no dispute from me.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Hmm...not that I recall
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Date:
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3/12/2013 1:59:22 AM
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I just don't recall you agreeing that the recovery has been lackluster but I will take your word for it. But the point I am trying to make is that this has been the worst recovery since FDR for a very simple reason. Obama is making all the same mistakes that FDR made and it is extending the misery for no apparent reason other than a slavish devotion to a failed ideology.
But what I cannot for the life of me understand is the double standard. If you don't care about a pathetic recovery and all the unnecessary pain being inflicted on Americans fair enough. But hold the GOP to the same low standard. Given the abysmal results, especially for blacks and latinos that voted for Obama in droves, one can only conclude that they likewise hold him to a very lower standard of performance and also have a double standard. I just don't get that.....but maybe ideology does trump performance, which probably defines the low information voter.
Archie, we are not going to agree on this issue and I am frankly bored of it. But on an unrelated note, I have learned how to post pix so I will inundate you with graphs, etc. Should get your juices flowing when I do.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
MM
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Date:
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3/12/2013 8:34:22 AM
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I'm afraid your digital and technological advances may soon condemn me to sink into the mire of irrelevance. Until then I will continue to try to keep lit and afloat the bright lamp of reality, truth and reason in this tempest-tossed digital sea of blind political passions.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Very poetic.....
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Date:
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3/12/2013 9:26:40 AM
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But like the poets it seems filled with more wishful thinking than reality.
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