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Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Biggest monthly income drop in 20 years
Date:	3/1/2013 11:51:58 AM

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/01/news/economy/income-spending-saving/

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Biggest monthly income drop in 20 years
Date:	3/1/2013 2:03:59 PM (updated 3/1/2013 2:06:55 PM)

Encouraging to see you are now getting your financial news from CNN. Without reading the article, I assume it has to do with the ireinstatement of the 2 pencetage point SS tax.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wrong headline
Date:	3/1/2013 2:23:24 PM

That was the headline that take home income plunge was the highest since 1959. Regardless of the cause, taxes lowers the income of Americans, layoffs/reduced hours, etc. to avoid Obamacare lowers the income of Americans, pretty much everything Oblamer does lowers the income of Americans.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Wrong headline
Date:	3/1/2013 4:20:48 PM

I just read artticle. The drop was caused by companies like Wal Mart paying dividends in December to save the wealthy a possible increase in tax on dividends in 2013 and the increase in SS. Otherwise, without these two items there would have been an increase.

Young man, the truith shall set thee free.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Which bad economic news?
Date:	3/1/2013 8:35:17 PM

The drop in income or the other one? Either way that is a ridiculous explanation.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Which bad economic news?
Date:	3/1/2013 9:48:42 PM

I did not make it up. This is direct from the article posted. You need to stop acting like a liberal and read what you post before not after.

"Monthly income was unusually high in December because companies paid out early dividends to avoid upcoming tax hikes. Companies like Wal-Mart (WMT, Fortune 500), Oracle (ORCL, Fortune 500), and Costco Wholesale Corp paid special dividends to their shareholders at the end of 2012, instead of waiting until 2013.

In doing so, they helped their high-income shareholders (individuals earning at least $400,000 a year, or married couples earning $450,000) avoid paying higher taxes on their gains. In their last-minute fiscal cliff deal, lawmakers decided to raise dividend tax rates for high-income households from 15% to 20%.

The payroll tax cut's expiration also played a role in January's drop, because most workers have to pay 2 percentage points more in taxes this year. The Commerce Department's "personal income" calculation subtracts out individuals' contributions to government social insurance programs like Social Security, which are funded by the payroll tax.

Excluding those special factors, the Commerce Department estimates that after-tax income actually increased 0.3% in January."

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Your turn MM?
Date:	3/1/2013 10:08:06 PM

Well played GF, jolly good!

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Your turn will come MM
Date:	3/1/2013 10:17:43 PM

It will be fun to see the how right argues when the Feb numbers are released based on the low January numbers.
They will suddenly argue the reverse for February. 'You can't use Jan as the base for Feb"..............

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Who cares why?
Date:	3/2/2013 7:56:34 AM

As I stated above, who cares what caused the drop income. It is what it is and it's bad economic news because 70% of GDP comes from consumer spending. If, if , if......if your aunt had testicles she would be your uncle. My point remains......it is bad economic news...DWIP

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	OK MM
Date:	3/2/2013 9:10:25 AM (updated 3/2/2013 9:22:34 AM)

Let's agree, you are correct, it must be considered bad economic news when personal income takes an unexpectedly large drop relative to the previous month when it there was an unexpectedly big jump...got it. Then how do you interpret last Thursday's unexpectedly large drop (22,000) in unemployment insurance claims relative to the 2 previous week's claims which were generally in line with expectations...would you consider it good news or "who cares why"?

BTW: Last week's new unemployment claims were less than half of the typical weekly slide in W's final months (final year come to think of it) and is at a figure which typically, if sustained, forecast moderately robust employment growth. Now Obama deserves little if any credit and W deserves little if any blame, but the FACT is...things are much better , at least in the direction we are heading, in early 2013 than in late 2008!

PS: MM just for the heck of it try to be "fair and balance" on occasion when you review, interpret and comment on the news...economic and otherwise.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You're happy about that?!?!?
Date:	3/2/2013 10:12:17 AM

Truly Oblamer is the affirmative action president. This has been the worst recovery from a recession since FDR turned a depression into a great depression and you are happy? Talk about lowered standards for president. I do hope you will have the intellectual honesty to hold the next Republican president to those very same low standards but I am not optimistic. Here's a prediction Archy. Just as we are seeing in Europe, the U.S. seems to be headed to a double dip recession. Q4 numbers point that way. Assuming it happens, Oblamer will blame it on the sequestration (his idea by the way and one he wanted to see happen) and the GOP. This despite the fact that the govt will spend $15 billion more in 2013 than 2012, the Dem-led Senate hasn't passed a budget in going on 5 years while the House has passed several and TOTUS' budgets can't get a single vote from either party as they are that silly. And the govt media will go right along like the sycophants that they are (as recognized in the polls but not by you) and low information voters will soak it in like the mind numbed zombies they are. And on a final note, because you seem to continue to be oblivious to this common piece of knowledge, the recession wasn't caused by one thing that Bush did. It was caused by a collapse in the housing bubble created by the govt distorting the markets through the CRA, Fannie and Feeddie. So who cares what the jobless claims were back four years ago? It was mostly the Dems fault that it happened and it's ancient history. What is important is the destruction caused by Oblamer's feckless policies and the facts on that are there for anyone to see, if they so choose.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Why is it MM
Date:	3/2/2013 1:25:24 PM (updated 3/2/2013 1:28:29 PM)

that you are such a doomsayer? Why can the glass never be half full for you, why is it always on the brink of being knocked off the table and smashed on the floor by "Oblamer"? How is it always bad news when a negative economic result is announced and also bad news when it is a positive economic report? You are so blinded and enraged that Obama is president and that his socio-economic ideas are not in alignment, that you are unable to see or admit the reality.

I always point out my belief that W bears little of the blame for the collapse. Neither does the CRA, Freddie or Fanny. Neither do losers borrowing money they know they cannot pay back. Neither do the banks that competed with each other to throw other peoples money at the feet of those losers. Neither do the mortgage bundlers who kept transferring tainted funds from one bunch to another collecting a huge commission with every move. Neither did Phil Gramm's giving the financial institutions carte blanche to do any damn thing they pleased, neither did spending 100+ billion a year on an unnecessary war. Neither did probably scores other of things. But, they all contributed. Now we are trying to get out of it. The American people in their "wisdom" have twice rejected the ideas you espouse and instead asked Barack Obama to lead the effort. We are making a little progress in that recovery, and that is in-spite of your "sides" efforts to use every trick short of a coup d'etat to block any policy that the people voted for and Obama has tried to put in place. No, we are not where we want to be, but we are getting there against all odds and obstacles. We live in a nation that abides by the rule of law and the results of free elections. You and the other Obama deniers have every right to your opinion, but it is way past time for you to stop bitching and moaning and accept the will of the American people. You need to admit and recognize, if not embrace, reality. I voted for Bush in '04 and lived to regret it. I never publicly or privately felt or expressed the disdain for Pres. Bush as a man or his policies as you and many others on this forum spout in such tiresome and lockstep fashion every single day against, not just Obama, but every soul in this nation who does not consider and publicly proclaim Obama the devil incarnate.

Name:	comrade -	Reply
Subject:	Why is it MM
Date:	3/2/2013 4:37:33 PM

In summation: When rape is inevitable, it is best to relax and try to enjoy it. It's all in your mind MM. Perception is reality.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	The left is living in fantasy land, not me
Date:	3/2/2013 4:59:38 PM

I continue to be amazed at the lower standards you hold the affirmative action president to and seem content to do so. Income dropping is good mews?!?!? Pardon me Archie, but my understanding of how the economy works makes it patently obvious that it is bad news. The glass isn't half empty for the 8 million people that over the last four years have given up hope of finding a job, it's is all empty. That glass isn't half empty for the 11% of Americans that are unemployed, it is mostly empty. And the businesses being harmed by Obamacare and tax increases and so on. The fact is you have lowered the standards for acceptable economic performance that every GOP president in the last 100 years would be a genius compared to Oblamer. And yes it's Oblamer. Nothing is ever his fault, even the ideas he dreams up. I have no rage toward him, he is a product of the warped culture and we are getting what we deserve as a country. And you are dead wrong about what caused the recession. It was caused by the housing collapse. It wasn't caused by the Iraq war. It wasn't caused by taxes being owered. Honestly, I can't believe I even have to argue this point as it is common knowledge.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	MM
Date:	3/3/2013 10:22:31 AM (updated 3/3/2013 10:30:07 AM)

Your biggest fantasy is the fantasy that policy and politics you are living, supporting and believing is not a fantasy.

PS: As always check your stats...The NET private sector job growth during Obama's first term already exceeds that for all 8 years for Bush. So, lets rewrite to say "Every GOP president for the last hundred years except...oops... W and...oops... Hoover............................."

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	ya know MM
Date:	3/3/2013 10:40:25 AM

You are a bright guy. I realize you hold strong opinions but I think (at least hope) you are intellectually honest.
Then why do you always refuse to give any credit to any positive report? Just because it is not as positive as you or I might consider adequate, does not negate the fact it is positive news. You do yourself and those who think as you a disservice when you throw up a smoke-screen or change the subject rather than be able to even give the smallest nod when anything, and I mean absolutely anything whatsoever, good happens on Obama's watch.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Sigh.......
Date:	3/4/2013 9:17:10 PM

Archie, just look at the labor participation rate and you will understand what you are describing is a fabrication. I will repeat the analogy so you can see how absurd it is. CEO of corporation with two divisions. Division 1 adds 1,000 jobs. Division 2 loses 2,000 jobs. Corporation loses a total,of 1,000 jobs. CEO asks for big bonus because Division 1 added 1,000 jobs. Board not likely to fall for it unless composed of low information voters like those that gave the affirmative action president a gimme because of low expectations. It is such a silly thing to talk about I am almost embarrassed for those that fall,for it.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Sigh.......indeed
Date:	3/5/2013 9:52:09 PM (updated 3/5/2013 10:13:37 PM)

OK, I get it...our expectations are now so low that even when they are met it is still a failure...give me a break!! Good Lord MM just admit what everybody knows...for you, If somehow for whatever reason employment in 2015 goes up 3,500,000, unemployment falls to 4%, GDP is going up at 5% a year, and the deficit is cut by 2/3ds it is either...1/ not good enough or 2/ happening in-spite of the president. Of course if the same thing should come to pass under a Republican (especially a T partier) it would be hailed as the 2d coming! My problem is you are unable to acknowledge it.

A few months ago I went back to look at the posts on this forum in the waning months of W's 2d term...didn't notice you being hot and bothered about us losing 800,000 jobs a month, or ranting about a GDP contraction of 6.7% a year, or complaining about job growth for the entire term of W which was at best anemic and in fact much lower than under the final 3 years of Obama's 1st term. All you were ranting about was the awful Democratic candidate Barack Obama. Why didn't you complain about economic conditions then? Guess your OK with "low expectations" as long as one of your guys is at the helm.

Sorry...I just get really turned off by hypocrisy on either side.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Sorry but the numbers don't work
Date:	3/6/2013 10:47:29 AM

There are 8 million fewer people working today than on the day that Oblamer took office. That is a fact and it is right there in the labor participation rate. That you only want to focus on one side of the equation as if the other is meaningless is nothing short of bizarre. I can assure you that jobs created in the last 4 years means absolutely nothing to those 8 million people whose lives have been destroyed. As the head of the Black COC said, Obama doesn't feel our pain, he issues it.

And yes, affirmative action is the only explanation for what we are seeing today versus the years of the Bush administration when 6% unemployment was the end of the world, yet today 11% is just fine to reelect him. And $180 billion annual deficits were going to bankrupt the country and were totally irresponsible but today after four years and counting of trillion dollar plus deficits it is just fine to reelect him. For 8 years we heard how Bush and Cheney were evil incarnate for waterboarding Islamofascist terrorists that killed Americans but not a peep about TOTUS using drones to kill American citizens on or off our soil without due process. I could go on and on but these are but a few examples of where Oblamer is held to a much lower standard than our previous president which we know is the foundation of affirmative action. As best I can tell from his education and background, the only difference between him and prior occupants is his race, again another essential factor in affirmative action. So no, I am not going to give you a break on this. What am I missing?

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