Name:	Old Diver -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground
Date:	6/20/2021 8:48:19 PM

   The McCloskeys stood their ground with firearms to protect their property and lives. They would have been a damn fool not to as armed creatures invaded their property and threatened them! Too bad he didn't empty the mag.

    The D A and others who charged them should be disbared and horse whipped! REMEMBER THIS COME NEXT ELECTION TIME! 

  https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/17/us/st-louis-mccloskeys-plead-guilty-to-misdemeanors/index.html

Name:	MountainMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/20/2021 11:34:25 PM

Diver - ever been to STL?  I lived there for years and have walked that neighborhood. The group didn't enter their peoperty, only the neighborhood. Those people were in no fear of imminent harm. I have known their lawyer for years - had they been acting lawfully they would not have pled guilty, even to a misdemeanor. 

Name:	HARRY -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 8:38:51 AM

Maybe they assumed that a judge would do the politically correct thing and find them guilty and charge them with a felony. They plead out and paid a couple thousand in fines. Now he can get back to his bid for Senate. 

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 10:24:21 AM

So did you destroy the gate to in too?

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 10:26:33 AM

He has also already been out showing off his new AR-15 that he legally owns.  Small price to pay to get on with life.

Name:	MountainMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 11:59:41 AM

Im sure you are aware that Judges don't charge people. And, despite news reports there was no damage to the neighborhood or any of the homes. 

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 12:20:58 PM

https://www.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/john-reeves-appellate-attorney-speaks-out-about-the-case-against-the-mccloskeys/

Well someone smashed the gate and was tresspassing ....... Or are you attempting to state that the gate collapsed on its own?  Does this qualify as "no damage to the neighborhood"?  If you have a fence around your yard/neighborhood and you find the gate broken and people wandering through your yard - does this qualify as tresspassing? If you and your spouse are home and lets say you have 50 people who are chanting, beating drums and walking through what was a locked gate do you feel concerned about your safety?

I am guessing that if 50+ people kicked in your door/fence and tresspassed you would feel different about your safety.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 12:23:45 PM

Obviously, phil, you are misinformed.  Certain groups "destruction" does now qualify.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 12:25:42 PM

video from earlier in the day shows gate intact, after its smashed.  So mountedman either owned a property inside the community, invited by a guest of that private neighborhood or he was tresspassing while walking that neighborhood for years.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 12:32:57 PM

Sorry my eyes lie to me often - I hate it when there is pictures and video that just cause me to misunderstand damage. I did also see a news report from ealier on that day witht the reporter standing in front of that date that showed the gate intact with chains and padlocks  - so I am guessing spontaneous gate self-collapse syndrome just at the time the "mostly peaceful group" decided to walk by.  The gate was probably racist and wanted to frame the group as well.  I am suprised the gate did not tie its metal into some nooses or scream this is MAGA country at the passerbys while sporting the rebel flag with hidden Nazi symbols in its scrollwork.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 12:36:46 PM

I call BS.  They pled to a misdemeanor because it saved them a boatload of attorney's fees as the STL DA has taxpayer funding at his/her disposal for prosecution.  Pay a small fine, get back to normal life, pay their attorney a relatively small fee and get on with normal life.  They will suffer no ill will from their decision.   Now I will say that a Senate seat is no consolation prize for these two.  

Name:	MountainMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 9:51:36 PM

Yea, still no response to "have you been to STL."  Thought so. I have friends in that area as well as that specific neighborhood.  Cute pic - not sure in what state - or country - it was taken. I was just a few houses away from there in May - "behind the gates" - and it's so sad what has been portrayed in national media. It's almost like parallel worlds. Oh, forgot, that's what we currently live in.   

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/21/2021 10:59:37 PM

Back in the 70s STL metro had something like 95 separate cities….done so that each area could have their own school system w/o busing and integration.  Was that your memory and experience?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/22/2021 11:53:28 AM

So you are saying the image of the broken gate is not in the city or state - or just not sure where it is from but you have friends in the area and have been in the area recently...

St Louis Post-Dispatch must not know what state they took a video of the broken gate in, or what city for that matter.  Sorry MountedMan, I have to call it like I see it and you must not know your a$$ from a broken gate that local St. Louis reports took video of - I would think they would know the address, and if the gate did not exist or was not broken they would probably have reported that.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/watch-now-a-closer-look-at-the-portland-place-confrontation/video_3da6ee55-ce57-584c-916d-be29d5aba0e0.html

or a local fox reporter with video of new gates being installed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muFwZxuJbo4

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/22/2021 12:31:38 PM

Interesting that he claims to know something far different than all the news reports, video and photo documentation from the actual event, all of which until he came along were undisputed by anyone. 

Classic progressive mentality.......when the facts are in opposition to what you want to be true you simply make up your own facts, claim some sort of moral superiority and use a host of logical fallacies to bolster an untenable, unhinged and untrue position.  It would be amusing except these people can and do vote.  Remember, when you argue with an idiot they will eventually drag you down to their level of stupidity and then beat you by experience. Your facts are indisputable but they won't matter to him.  He will continue to make the absurd claim that he knows better than the photo documentation.  This falls into the category of "I'll take Things that Aren't Actually True for $500, Alex".

Name:	realfast64 -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/22/2021 12:47:15 PM

    Mountain man i must reply I was in STL in 2001. I was traveling to South Dakota with a Fifth wheel in tow. I Stopped at a Lowes parking lot about 9:30 pm as many travlers do.  I walked around my rig to check thing then entered my camper and went to bed. I awoke somewhere around the 7 oclock hour put on a pot of coffee and again walked around my rig checking tires and oil and such. As I reached for the door handle to enter a police car pulled up. My mind raced as to to why i was getting a vist from a officer of the law. Was i in violation of some law or was he checking out who I was.  The officer was a rather large black man. A very impressionable officer of the law. He says something like good morning sir, did you have a good night? To which i replied yes yes I did it was a long day.  He replied good.  He then asked where are you headed, Sturgis ? To which i said does it show? To which we both laughed. At this point he asked if i knew where i was at? With a perplexed look i said STL.  His reply was yes the worst part of STL you could have stopped in!!  But you were alright we watched over you last night. If we had not you would not have had tires to check or a truck to continue to Sturgis!!!   Wow I could not shower and dress fast enough! From that conversation i checked on the places i stopped at night along my travel routes!  

  With that encounter nothing would surprise me from that town. Now I know video can be altered to push a agenda but with careful examination one can see the truth and what has been staged. But when the keepers of the city tell you it is a bad area one needs to pay attention.  

  The saying use to be "Good fences make good neighbors" but not so sure now. Reason is because if someone doesnt have self respect they AINT going to respect you or YOURS.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/22/2021 1:23:29 PM

It is sad that he is almost as delusional as the mental patient in the White House.

Name:	MountainMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/23/2021 12:06:46 AM

Have you walked the area, Martini Mouth?  Didn't think so. you can take the RWW position all you want - doesn't make it any more true. 

Name:	MountainMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/23/2021 12:08:47 AM

you mean the one who claims he didn't really lose and will be retaking 1600 soon. 

Can't wait for the next installment. 

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/23/2021 8:31:40 AM (updated 6/23/2021 8:46:47 AM)

Trump claimed that someone smashed his gate and trespassed on his property?  Buuuuttttt TRRRUUMMMPPPPP - always the goto when you have nothing left.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/23/2021 8:33:11 AM

I am really doubting you have walked anything around the area since you are claiming the gate does not exist - Ill take reporting from CBS, NBC, BBC and fox over you any day.

Name:	MountainMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wow - ignore button is pretty cool
Date:	6/23/2021 11:17:53 PM

No static at all

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Wow - ignore button is pretty cool
Date:	6/24/2021 8:10:06 AM

Get caught being full of BS- Just block those who call you out for being full of chit, that solves your BS problem.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground
Date:	6/24/2021 1:58:03 PM

When this happened, I tried to put myself in their place.  There had been a lot of violent demonstrations and the crowd did break down the gate.  We all know that people will do things in a crowd, that they might not otherwise do.  I don't know that I would have gone out there with my weapon, unless I felt like I was being threatened in some manner.  I don't know how they felt.  I do know that while I have never faced that situtation, I have felt nervous when confronted with a group of black young men who were coming toward me - and then I felt foolish later because of my own reaction.  

Since no shots were fired on either side, it was a tempest in a teapot, that was raised by the media who clearly sided with the Black people involved.  Because the McCloskeys are wealthy white people, living in a mansion in a gated community, the media would have to make them seem ridiculous.  But, I have no idea what they felt or why they felt it prudent to go out with weapons.  I don't think this really falls under "stand your ground" but that is just my opinion, but I don't think they should have been charged eitherr.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground
Date:	6/24/2021 3:53:06 PM

Hound I'm surprised at your stance--you gonna just invite them in for tea & cookies ??? --when it comes to threats to your person/family  & damages to property & trespassing   stand your ground definitely applies in my opinion--hope you never have to encounter

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground
Date:	6/24/2021 4:15:12 PM

They have every right to defend themselves and their property, but it seems that if they were standing in their doorway rather than out front they would be on better "Castle Doctrine" ground, rather than being out front waving the firearms around. 

In my opinion a firearm should not be actively used as a deterrent, only to defend.  They were trying to deter the mob from destroying their property.

I have one question:  Had they called 911 before they went outside with the guns? 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground
Date:	6/24/2021 10:27:09 PM

No, I wouldn't invite them in for tea and cookies.  But I also would not be waving my weapons around.  I read a lot of accounts about that day, but I could never figure out if anyone left the sidewalk or did anything that would be considering threatening.  I think I would have stayed inside with my weapons by the door at the ready if I needed to defend my life or property.  You know the pictures were just fodder for "crazy white people" threatening black people and also for the anti-gun lobby.  

As I said, I have tried to imagine myself in their place and thought about what I would have done if I were in that situation.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/25/2021 8:16:47 AM

I literally do not get why you continue to argue undisputed facts widely covered in the media and not even controversial, all based on the claim that you were there once as if that means a thing.  News flash Sparkie, I've never been to Nagasaki but I know they dropped a nuclear bomb there to end WW2 cause I saw the pictures and read the news  I've never been to Paris but I know the Eiffel Tower is these cause I've seen pictures and read news stories about it.  And I know they destroyed the gate to get into the GATED community because I've seen the pictures and read the news stories.  And here's another news flash for you.  I grew up in Pittsburgh and lots of things have changed, structures built and structures destroyed, etc.  The fact that I grew up there doesn't give me some omniscience that allows me to dispute facts, pictures and stories in the city.  I know, for some reason the fact that you walked there once does.....very telling.

Had the facts surrounding their entering the GATED community been disputed you might have some credibility.  But they aren't and you don't.  Sometimes it's best to stop digging your hole deeper......but I doubt you have the integrity to realize you are just being a contentious a$$hat for no other reason than you can't admit you are wrong.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wow - ignore button is pretty cool
Date:	6/25/2021 8:21:43 AM

Ya know, the more I think about it the more I am wondering if this yahoo is Archie.  It's kind of hard to imagine more than one person taking such ludicrous positions.  He reminds me of people on Twitter that post something so abjectly stupid and then block everyone that points out that they are a moron.  I haven't put this guy on ignore because so far he hasn't posted anything morally objectionable like Archie did.  But he does lower our collective IQ with posts like those in this thread.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground
Date:	6/25/2021 8:29:48 AM

Of course they broke down the gate to get into a gated community.  Interestingly, if you go back and look at the footage my recollection was there were a lot of white, woke leftists in the crowd that were threatening them.  I did have to laugh that they had to turn in their guns but simply went and got new ones.  Such is the idiocy of govt.  And I can assure you the DA was probably very proud of that photo op which turned out to be utterly meaningless.  And given the left wing nut jobs out there they were very wise to publicize that they are able to protect themselves.  Message sent.....

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Wow - ignore button is pretty cool
Date:	6/25/2021 8:48:57 AM

Im not so sure - I think there are two different levels of stupid involved.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground - They Didn’t
Date:	6/25/2021 8:57:59 AM

I think you are correct.  He showed up when archie dissapeared and like archie and his infamous "doctor friend" and "pharmacist friend" and others that he is always claiming to back up his idiotic opinions that he posts.  I won't bother to look them up but when it first happened there were multiple videos posted on social media showing them tearing down the gate, because those idiots just have to video all their cr@p so they can get "likes" and "shares" and maybe even more followers to prove how important they are.  

I'm jsut surprised archie hasn't come on to tell us how the white supremists and Nazi racist have taken over Buckhead and are trying to get out from under Atlanta's rule.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Stand Your Ground
Date:	6/25/2021 11:03:14 AM

Yes, I agree about the guns.  Totally stupid and that was just a publicity stunt by the DA.  

I don't know that any real message was sent by them hoisting their guns in front of their house.  I'm an avid gun rights person, but even I thought they looked a little ridiculous.  I remember the crowds claimed that they were headed to the Mayors house, but the mayor didn't live there.  

What I find much more threatening is the black militia that marches the streets with their open carry AR's over in Georgia.  Now that is a thrreat.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wow - ignore button is pretty cool
Date:	6/25/2021 7:33:57 PM

The thing is this guy is epic stupid.....Archie was evil stupid.  But I am guessing they are one in the same and this is the way for Archie to get around the ignore button.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Wow - ignore button is pretty cool
Date:	6/26/2021 7:50:57 AM

Not being one to label, I see confident ignorance and arrogant imbecility.