Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/25/2019 6:16:03 PM

think about the Galleger case?  Is the President right to try to interfere?  

It reminds me how Obama stuck his nose in some legal cases involving the police and black young men.  

I personally think that Trump should stay out and let the military resolve their own issues.  I don't think it should be up to Trump - it should be decided by the military.  If you undermine the USMJ, what good will it be?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/26/2019 8:22:02 AM (updated 11/26/2019 8:43:38 AM)

Not in the military but if you look at the case you will better understand why Trump rightly intervened.  It was a travesty of justice, the JAG actually spied on the defense, another Seal said he was the one that killed the terrorist and after all the prosecutorial misconduct the JAG attorneys gave each other medals.  I can assure you that Trump got involved at the insistence of military personnel that knew a travesty when they saw it.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/26/2019 8:25:29 AM

Agree with MM

also 

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/197-military-officers-purged-by-obama/

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/26/2019 9:18:54 AM

I remember that during the Obama years, there was a purge of military offiers Captains and Majors and people were concerned that they were hollooutwing out the military.

But if the President decides to interene, what is the value of the trial?  He was acquitted of the murder, but convicted of having his picture with the dead body.  SEALS are supposed to be of higher caliber than average and if you see an officer doing something wrong, junior officer and enlisted will see that they can get away with it too.  I don't think of it as a travesty of justice that he be kicked out of the SEALS and retire at a lesser rank.  He dishonored it.  

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/26/2019 9:25:44 AM

Thanks Phil.  That’s exactly what I was thinking of when I read Hound’s post.  I’m pretty sure Hound was still in the Pentagon when o-BAMMIE flushed out all the non-dimokrap generals who still had spines.  I’ve thought about that a lot, every time I read of a political decision made by the military.  Can’t kill dim muslims, dey beeees my bros.....

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/26/2019 10:59:16 AM

Sorry but we will just have to agree to disagree - he is trained to go into the worst locations and do jobs that few are at that level.  Obama attempted to pin war crimes and murder charges on him and failed, so much like Russia Russia Russia they had to find something to pin on him.  The prosecution team from what I have read should be investigated.

I would think that most military enlisted and officers see this for what it is and would not expect a presidental pardon or think this is a get out of jail free card for everyone in the military but a long overdue correction to abuse.

https://www.militarytimes.com/2019/05/17/secret-tracking-device-found-in-navy-email-to-navy-times-amid-leak-investigation-raises-legal-ethical-questions/

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/26/2019 2:30:26 PM

That is a tough call, with considerations aplenty weighing on the decision. While we take pride in doing the honorable thing, there really isn't a whole lot about war that is honorable. One needs to consider the conditions we place our warriors into...raw, they die or I die situations, with horrors many can't take without having severe PTSD.  One needs to ask if it is fair to use peacetime norms to form judgements on wartime  events.

in the case of Gallagher, he was acquitted of the murder charge but convicted of having his picture taken with a dead enemy.  Was that bad judgement?  Yes, that is dishonoring the enemy fighter as a human being.  Is it understandable?  I think you would have to look at Gallagher's previous service to determine if it was a one-off to an otherwise honorable career or another in a series of questionable acts.  If the latter, pulling his pin might be warranted.  However, if a one-off you need to consider what it might do to the SEALs as an elite fighting force. It could negatively affect morale. It could make it hard to recruit new SEALs.  

Whether Trump should have jumped in is debatable.  It tells SEALs that he has their back.  Might it embolden others to commit such acts? Maybe but I wonder if that one symbolic gesture would be enough to turn the SEALs into a bunch of dirty scumbags.

In my cybersecurity work we often have to answer questions with "it depends".  I think that is probably the best answer here, and would have to consider many variables before coming up with an answer.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/26/2019 4:56:40 PM

it's WAR--s_ _t happens

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/26/2019 5:51:52 PM

There is no easy, cut and dried answer to this question!! As I have stated before, I was a career Air Force officer in the 1960's and 70's. I never had to serve in a war zone, and it is hard to second guess how anyone might respond until they come face to face with life or death situations. I think your response to this question is logical and provides a good summation of the kind of thoughts that must be considered in evaluating a person's worthiness for the rest of his or her llfe.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/26/2019 6:00:10 PM

I understand that it is war and thing happen.  If you accidently kill a civilian - well that is war and stuff happens. But posing with a dead body? I don't think that this crime fits into stuff happens.  You can't have people in elite units doing whatever they feel like it.  Seals already get by with some things.  You know, part of this has implications for the host nation.  They may have demanded that he be tried for war crimes.  

I read an article today that talked about how members of the military feel - and it is split.  Happy that Trump has their back, but then others feel like Seals are held to a higher standard.  

At the end of the day - Gallagher is retiring and this review that was supposed to happen has been cancelled. 

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/27/2019 8:27:00 AM

The photo has multiple people in it with the dead body - Why was he the only one brought up on that charge?  why not everyone involved?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/27/2019 9:49:22 AM

Dats da dimokrap general (o-BAMMIE) way of doing business!

Name:	alatraveler50 -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/27/2019 2:27:26 PM

I believe 'Hound' is right.  I spent 7 years in the Navy as an enlisted man, 1 off the coast of Vietnam.  The US military holds itself to a higher standard than many other of the world's military organizations.  When an enlisted member or officer disregards the Uniform Code of Military Justice there can be severe consequences.  One of those consequences is the lack of trust and respect of those officers and enlisted members who surround you.  I wonder what the other 150+ SEALs who have lost their Tridents (because of much lesser offenses) feel like right now?  Are they going to get theirs back?

As far as 'Phil's pst about Obama relieving 197 officers, you have to look at some of the offences.  "Stated grounds range from "leaving blast doors on nukes open" to "loss of confidence in command ability" to "mishandling of funds" to "inappropriate relationships" to "gambling with counterfeit chips" to "inappropriate behavior" to "low morale in troops commanded.""  Article does not say that any of these officers were demoted only that they were relieved of their commands.

Name:	Dennis0110 -	Reply
Subject:	What do former military people here
Date:	11/30/2019 2:58:07 PM

Yes, I also really think that this author proposed the correct solution to this problem. By the way there is a topic on economics https://www.mundiario.com/articulo/economia/economia-espanola-otono-2015-y-prestamos-momento/20151210135143050644.html