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Name:   wix - Email Member
Subject:   Pleasure Point problem
Date:   8/22/2013 10:26:57 PM

Looks like this thread is getting kinda long with no end in sight, so I'll just move it up to the top.  I've read all the posts and a couple of issues need clarifying.  One, I think you will have trouble finding any "sewage system permits".  It was my understanding that permits and inspections by the Health Dept have only been around for the last 15 or so years in Tallapoosa County.  Prior to that, no one checked nothin'.  Also, Maxwell/Gunter had to force all of their permanent squatters to break camp and the place became a true short stay campground.  Not sure, but I think it may have been because that land is leased from APCo, and is approved by FERC only as a short time campground.  If you read the posted Recreation Plan it is very carefully worded to not refer to Pleasure Point as either a trailer park, or long term stay camp ground.  It appears they are wanting FERC to believe it's a short term campground.  Notice there are no trailers in the photos, only a boat ramp and picnic tables.  Interesting that they want to take 25.8 acres, the campground, out of Project Lands and keep 6+ acres in Project Lands.  I'm not sure of the significance of such a change.  Maybe someone will know.  There may be a connection between what they did at Maxwell/Gunter and what's happening at PP.  As far as there being a septic tank issue, a call to the County Health Dept should clarify that potential issue.



Name:   DJ - Email Member
Subject:   Pleasure Point problem
Date:   8/22/2013 11:28:37 PM

APCO will more than likely lease the Marina and cabins to someone else as well as the boat storage, they already own Real Island Marina and lease it out. The Marina and the cabins are older than 15 years so any permits would not be an issue as are the majority of the septic systems that are in the place. Sounds like the issue may not be septic permits after all if that 15 years records keeping info is correct. What's missing is what APCO plans on doing with the place after all is said and done. That may come out in the next few days..



Name:   Mike Hunt - Email Member
Subject:   The OUTLOOK is bad
Date:   8/23/2013 6:20:06 AM

 according to the OUTLOOK  has the  rest of the story.  It is not pretty.  Poop Pipes to the lake and stench in many areas. 

looks like someone turned them in to the county health department.

future looks mighty grim



Name:   LoveCamping - Email Member
Subject:   My rumor on Maxwell/Gunter Rec area
Date:   8/23/2013 6:41:49 AM

For what it is worth... I was at the Maxwell/Gunter rec area a couple months ago and I asked the worker there what was going on and if they planned to close the place because it looked dead.  He told me that some Major came to stay at the campground and was very upset that he could not get a choice spot on the water because of all the full time/many years residents who were there.  Apparently this person did not let it drop there and went to Maxwell to the powers that be and got the policy changed to move off the permanent residents and free up the choice spots.  Not sure if this is true but since the guy worked there it did seem reasonable to assume he had some inside information. 

But what doesn't make sense is the shelves in the place are almost bare and he told me Maxwell was not stocking the them and were pretty much ignoring supply orders.  So something amiss does seem to be going on there. 

At the time, my wife and I speculated then that it may not be long before the place closes.

As a footnote, it does seem that the full timers living there did in fact keep the place alive.  Especially during winter when most visitors stayed away.  So evicting them may have really hurt the steady income they had.



Name:   wix - Email Member
Subject:   AHA!
Date:   8/23/2013 8:25:04 AM

Looks like my supposition was off base. There are hundreds of cabins on the lake with a drum for a septic tank and then the "field line" is a pipe run into the lake. Looks like the health department is starting their crusade to clean up the mess. And we think our lke is soooo clean. Have you ever noticed the many trailers off the lake are parked next to a creek or stream.....it's not for the view.



Name:   LoveCamping - Email Member
Subject:   AHA!
Date:   8/23/2013 8:43:23 AM

You never know really.  When large entities want something all sorts of seemingly random events happen mysteriously. 

I looked at Alex City Outlook and did not see an article on PP and the health dept.?  Please post the link Mike H.



Name:   DJ - Email Member
Subject:   AHA!
Date:   8/23/2013 8:51:00 AM

You have to have an account to read all of the story, waiting on my login.


URL: Pleasure Point Story

Name:   LoveCamping - Email Member
Subject:   AHA!
Date:   8/23/2013 9:14:53 AM

Please cut and paste the article here when you do get access.  Thanks



Name:   Julio - Email Member
Subject:   Pleasure Point problem
Date:   8/23/2013 10:08:32 AM

I have a place in PP and received my letter yesterday. According to the letter, there was a disagreement over whether the new state regulations on septic systems apply only to new installations or existing systems as well. PP contends that it has been making legal repairs to the septic system with approval and permits from the Health Department for years without any problem. Now the Health Dept has taken the position that the new regs won't allow any further repairs. PP says they were willing to get a judicial ruling on the issue, but they were informed "verbally" by APCO that their lease would not be renewed regardless of the outcome of any legal proceedings. It was either replace the entire system throughout the park or give up. The letter states that there was no feasible way to replace the entire system due to park configurations and costs. PP decided to give up. The letter also said that a town hall type meeting will be held in the near future to discuss the exit strategy. I don't know how in the world APCO expects everyone in the park to not only leave within the next 9 months but to also have their homes removed. If you've ever been in the park you understand. There are dozens of homes with attached covered decks and retaining walls. It would cost people thousands to do that.



Name:   TotheLake - Email Member
Subject:   I read it, can't copy and paste
Date:   8/23/2013 10:10:31 AM

I can't copy and paste the article but I signed up for the free trial.  Basically the article said the owner of PP didn't really see a problem with it but she was going to talk to APC.  It started when several septic systems started to fail and the Tallapoosa County Health Department was notified.



Name:   wix - Email Member
Subject:   Questions
Date:   8/23/2013 10:37:42 AM

Who sent the letter to renters? Is there a centralized sewer system, or does each renter have their own septic tank?



Name:   Julio - Email Member
Subject:   Questions
Date:   8/23/2013 10:57:43 AM

The letter came from the owners of Pleasure Point Park. There is no centralized sewage system. That's the whole problem. Each home is connected to a septic tank.



Name:   DJ - Email Member
Subject:   Questions
Date:   8/23/2013 11:16:32 AM


i don't know who sent the letters but can tell you some things about the septic systems. The are septic tanks that service two places, not sure but would not be surprised if in some spots the service three. There are field lines under driveways, parking areas, i know of one that is under a gravel road, have seen it leaking water and reported it and they put more gravel and dirt over it so it would not seep out. There are places with pump out tanks that send the liquids up the hill to the field lines. The way places are set up on the side north of the marina store they are very close to each other and have rooms built on, some are completely enclosed. There are small campers up to very large doublewide homes, trees have grown up close to them and would have to be cut down to get the homes and or campers off the lots. Then i think different counties have different laws in Alabama as well as Georgia where some people are from that will not allow mobile homes older than five to ten years to be brought in. Pleasure point had a rule that nothing older than 5 or maybe 6 years old was the limit. This will turn into a very costly process for some folks, some will just walk away and leave it to APCO to remove the things out, and then you have docks, sea walls of every kind that will be left there to be cleaned up. This could cost APCO a pretty penny to clean up. if they have to dig up all the old tanks and field lines that’s an even bigger mess, there is no one that knows where they are.

Something else i noticed on the APCO recreation plan map is that the area north of pleasure point has a place similar to PPP that is listed as being removed, in the description it says it is a former day use area, nothing about a campground or a mobile home park being there? it’s named Lakeside. Does anyone know if the place at the end of Dennis Creek down past River Oak is still there? it's land is owned by APCO and i heard years ago they were told to leave as well but have not been up that way in a long time, it does not show one the map and is not mentioned in the plans? Wow what a big mess that is going to be if they do not get it resolved but it is my opinion they had no intention of renewing the lease before any of the septic issues came up. One last thing, Wicker Point is right across from Pleasure point and that Land is owned by Russell Lands, just sayin.





Name:   wix - Email Member
Subject:   Bridge & RL
Date:   8/23/2013 11:48:39 AM

Building a bridge across main channel with depths of 50 to 120 ft would not prove financially feasible, even for RL, and there is no way the state could justify such an expense for another bridge from nowhere to nowhere. 



Name:   Mike Hunt - Email Member
Subject:   Bridge & RL
Date:   8/23/2013 12:22:48 PM

Where did the stAte build a bridge from nowhere to nowhere



Name:   wix - Email Member
Subject:   Bridge & RL
Date:   8/23/2013 12:53:16 PM

They didn't.  RL built that bridge. 



Name:   wix - Email Member
Subject:   Pleasure Point OUTLOOK article below
Date:   8/23/2013 1:01:43 PM

Article is link is below.

URL: Pleasure Point article link

Name:   LoveCamping - Email Member
Subject:   Thx for the link WIX
Date:   8/23/2013 10:09:15 PM

Thx for the link WIX.  Interesting indeed.



Name:   Crusier - Email Member
Subject:   Pleasure Point problem
Date:   8/23/2013 10:44:55 PM

After reading this thread, hearing about the situation affecting the Pleasure Point neighborhood, knowing that many PP mobile homes are on independent septic systems without issues, seeing the Outlook’s newspaper article, sensing the heart ache of the PP residents and reading the letter from the “lady” at PP Park---many additional thoughts come to mind.  if the consortium (Heath Department, APCo, PP master leaseholder and maybe RL) has this much power to quickly end the lives of good law abiding middle class Americans living in PP---why would anyone ever trust APCo to rent/lease one of the many other leased properties around the Lake? What’s next…could someone always complete a better undisclosed deal with APCo power brokers and have any leased lot revoked? Why would any retiree come to Tallapoosa County after seeing how it allows the mega giant Corporations/local government agencies to treat its residents, especially the ones that are retired and afforded to live in a mobile home?? Even if the course continues to end PP without any prescribed recourses---shouldn’t APCo assist these residents in moving, offering another lease option around the Lake or in the helping cover some portion of the loss in their investments? After all---i think we all see how PP residents got here---APCo either intentionally/or unintentionally created a false sense of status quo since the MHP had existed for nearly 50 years, APCo---a “fair and trusted company” owns the land leased to PP Park and Marina,  APCo representatives many times over permitted these PP residents to make investments in permanent structures over/around the water and to build permanent improvements attached to/around their MHs on the sub-leased lots and since APCo has continuously operated as a land leasing company for many additional residents around the Lake. Given these apparent facts, i truly see how owner residents at PP possessed a strong sense of security in their investments and felt if they paid their lease amounts, the future was secure.  APCo should be ashamed of this treatment created direct/indirect by their hands and should give serious consideration to protecting their reputation by establishing how they can help these park residents out of a bad situation they either directly or indirectly played a major part in creating. if indeed septic systems are problematic within specific locations around the Park, the Health Department and APCo should have already forced improvements in PP and anywhere else that issues exist and we should be reading about how options are being explored to correct the situation for good of all neighbors. 





Name:   wix - Email Member
Subject:   Cruiser
Date:   8/23/2013 11:13:10 PM

Before you get too all soft and squishie for the renters, consider the facts. It appears that the sewage problem is widespread and has gone uncontrolled for many years. The tenants are the perpetrators, not the victims. APC is the landowner not the tenant to the renters. Has the condition gone on too long without action, yes. Are the renters innocent, no. Are the renters adults, yes. Are the renters responsible adults, yes. Interestingly, it may surprise some that APC is in the process of selling all of its leased individual lots to the lease holders, a good deal for the lease holders. There is probably much more information about this situation than we know. We don't know what requirements were placed on the "old lady" by APC that she failed to accomplish. APC has more lawyers than anyone in the state, so I feel pretty sure they know they're in a strong position. Can you imagine what would happen to them if they knowingly allowed pollution in the lake to continue. My feeling is the tenants of the "old lady" knew they were violating the law, and were willing to take the risk. They got caught. Bad for them, yes. But don't blame the landowner.



Name:   DJ - Email Member
Subject:   Cruiser
Date:   8/24/2013 7:13:35 AM

If you go look at the information in the re-licensee application you will see it is dated long before the septic system problems so APCO appears to have been planning to terminate the lease with PPP before the complaint was filed with the health department.



Name:   10toLife - Email Member
Subject:   Bama Park
Date:   8/24/2013 7:27:26 AM

Is Bama Park APC property? Just wondering. I have no idea. 
But I can imagine there might be the same situation there as many of those properties are on the lake -- and would require a sub pump to get sewage to an appropriate area. Someone mentioned the Dennis Creek area.. I remember that from years ago but have not been down there so don't know if its still there -- Lakeside I think they said. 
Does anyone know what happened to it?

 From reading Julio's post who has a lace here seems like it's a done deal and everyone is just accepting they have to go. They are having an EXIT meeting. Sad that the sins of a few have affected everyone there. 



Name:   rga82 - Email Member
Subject:   Pleasure Point problem
Date:   8/24/2013 7:36:02 AM

Anyone know how much "the old lady" paid APCO for the lease?  If each lot pays @ $350/month and there are 75 residents that's over $300,000.00/year income.  That's a pretty nice cash cow.  



Name:   wix - Email Member
Subject:   Bama Park
Date:   8/24/2013 8:13:09 AM

Bama Park used to be a private day camp with sand beaches, ski beach, etc. APC did not own the ground. As close together as those trailers are placed, they have to have a centralized sewer system. I hope.



Name:   boataholic - Email Member
Subject:   Bama Park
Date:   8/24/2013 8:27:16 AM

Lake Martin RV Resort aka Bama Park does have a proper sewage system. Pumps to send it all up hill to a large field of several acres. The lots are all deeded so Ala Power has no say beyond the usual oversight of docks.



Name:   Lifer - Email Member
Subject:   Russell Crossing
Date:   8/24/2013 5:38:02 PM

Russell Crossing is the park in Dennis Creek. They got get out. Six month notices went out. Most all of the off water folks left then they v Got never mind letters. Most of the waterfront places were still there last time I cruised thru some months back. But I am pretty sure RL owns that land but not absolutely sure. I seem to recall that the reason given in the get out letter was an intended development by RL.



Name:   DJ - Email Member
Subject:   Russell Crossing
Date:   8/24/2013 6:35:14 PM

APCO owns that land, looked it up yesterday. It is not mentioned on the application they just filed.



Name:   Lifer - Email Member
Subject:   Russell Crossing
Date:   8/24/2013 7:57:04 PM

I guess I just associated with RL due to the name. Should a known they would never be associated with a trailer park.



Name:   spud - Email Member
Subject:   wrong name..
Date:   8/24/2013 8:42:22 PM


it is Russell Ferry Estates.



Name:   Lifer - Email Member
Subject:   wrong name..
Date:   8/25/2013 8:54:50 AM

You are correct. One of my frequent brain f@rts.



Name:   Lifer - Email Member
Subject:   wrong name..
Date:   8/25/2013 8:54:50 AM

You are correct. One of my frequent brain f@rts.



Name:   Crusier - Email Member
Subject:   Pleasure Point problem
Date:   8/25/2013 4:18:18 PM

in regards to some defending APCo and the other larger entities with huge legal teams steering toward their own end goals using the convenience of the Health department as their defense, the people i know in PP are honest law abiding retirees living in a mobile home. They would never knowingly break laws or let others break the law despite what these Corporate/Government/Private for Profit entities with their vast legal teams might say.  Many updates in this forum might lead you to believe that all people in PP are bad and willingly have set out to destroy our community and the Lake.  i like you, have never read PP as being a crime-ridden neighborhood, neither have i read any crimes coming from that area. Other than these unsubstantiated septic issues rumored to exist across the entire PP neighborhood, please respond back if you have facts supporting different information.  As for septic systems, i know that many are on independent single tank systems being pumped every so many years like all of us should be doing.  Rules call for septic systems to be pumped every 3 to 5 years, maybe more/less depending on family size and usage demands.  Hoping that all of us around the Lake are doing this prescribed action.

Further, everyone that has now read the FeRC report filed in 2011 knows that a greater end goal is in play here and with our current day reading realizes it must have been goal of APCo to eliminate PP even though residents were in the dark. Maybe PP residents were not reading every piece of output from APCo like most of us. i guess i am most bothered that APCo continued to allow residents to make permitted improvements/investments like had been the case for nearly 50 years, obviously APCo had visited PP as landowner many times as indicated by recent permitting/other inspections and as we now read, obviously had a future master plan for the property. even more bothersome is the apparent intentional silence that has happened while APCo’s own permitting department allowed additional investments to be made by residents with PP.  i think these facts will have an interesting outcome if ever viewed by a group of neutral unbiased peers.

 So while easy to say good riddance to the PP residents and to see these neighbors charged with unexpected substantial costs to move their homes to an unknown destination and to incur huge losses of investment dollars while maybe being on set incomes---i see this as our neighbors being done wrong.  The Lady and some residents maybe are guilty on septic systems without my knowledge as is the same case with some deeded landowners at Lake and elsewhere. That said, the PP residents known to me are not guilty of anything but, blind trust. Something stinks here and its smells of something far bigger than a sewage smell that should be correctable.  





Name:   montmom - Email Member
Subject:   Pleasure Point problem
Date:   8/25/2013 5:18:19 PM


I agree 100% .



Name:   Lifer - Email Member
Subject:   What he said!
Date:   8/25/2013 5:43:33 PM

An investigation is definitely in order.



Name:   DJ - Email Member
Subject:   What he said!
Date:   8/25/2013 9:51:08 PM

 
Gray water is what was reported as being sent into the lake, that is bath tub, sink, washing machine water and is not sewage like what would come out of the septic tank, I bet you could inspect stick built homes on deeded lots and find the same discharges being done, maybe using those waters to water shrubs, garden and grass. Not saying it is OK to discharge that into the lake just pointing out the type water going into the lake. I have been going to Pleasure point for 22 years and been all over the park and there was never any sewage spilling into the lake. My past dealing with the "Lady" when our pump went out was dealt with very quickly, on the weekend they came out dug up the tank lid and the pump out tank, replaced the tank, pump, float switch and had them clean out the tank. If someone had a septic system failure and did not report it to her that was a big mistake. The lease covered systems that were in place, if someone came in cleaned off their own lot, put utilities in and had a septic system put in then she was not responsible for that system.
She has links and copies of all the documents I found online and is turning them over to her attorney. She had an agreement to stay there for 25-30 years (if I remember right) and she passed that on to everyone in the park. In my opinion there is something else planned for all that land.



Name:   whitebass - Email Member
Subject:   Pleasure Point problem
Date:   8/25/2013 11:58:08 PM


i believe you speak from the heart and with common since , thank you for your insight , we need more people who understand the human heart and help the ones who cannot find the way to help them selves , again thank you .




Name:   whitebass - Email Member
Subject:   Cruiser
Date:   8/26/2013 12:01:36 AM


i have never seen any sewage in our area and we asked before we signed the lease and we where told we do not have a problem last year to our face from pp so we wrote a check for our place ... again this was the first i had heard of a problem since i have been there .



Name:   Ulysses E. McGill - Email Member
Subject:   Ditto...
Date:   8/26/2013 1:21:24 AM

I also agree 100%







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