Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Dems think they've hit the jackpot...not!
Date:	10/29/2019 9:41:03 PM

With another guy proudly wearing his uniform and wrapping himself in the flag.  But he was only one of many that was on the call and others have already testified.  Most likely the new guy is one of the sources for the weaselblower and is basically telling us more of the same lies in the Schiff produced document. And most importantly and decisively we have the actual transcript of the call.  We've heard from Zelensky that there was no pressure.  Zelensky has never said he would investigate Burisma or Hunter Biden and as fas we know no investigation has happened.  Taylor was obliterated under cross examination and revealed as yet another passing along heresay and the lies of others with an axe to grind.  All but a very few witnesses have denied a quid pro quo or pressure and those that claimed one have withered under questioning.  The Ukranians did not know of the delayed funded until long after the call and the funding was released without any specific action taken by them.  If that's impeachable then vote and lets see where this goes.  Interesting that Nancy said they will vote on Thursday and then backtracked mostly I suspect because Pencil Neck has made such a mess of things with his Star Chamber secrecy, selective leaks and influence peddling with so-called witnesses and she may not have the votes as yet.

Interestingly, according to the NYT this new guy was actually advising the Ukranians behind the scenes......hmmmmm.....  What these deep state actors have never understood and refuse to accept is that the President is the one who sets foreign policy.  That's what the Constitution says and the way its always been.  If you don't like it, then have some ethics and quit.  What is wrong is this coup attempt by the deep state.

And all this is happening while we move ever closer to the release of the IG report and the criminal investigation by Durham.  I say panic is setting in with Democrats and the deep state and they are getting very worried this will all blow up in their faces in 2020.  The GOP is laready prepping their ads to show the Democrats as a do-nothing Congress with zero accomplishments and the waste of time on a phony impeachment.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Dems think they've hit the jackpot...not!
Date:	10/29/2019 10:26:30 PM

Vindman was not advising the Ukraine's behind anyone's back.  He was the NSC desk officer for Ukraine and Russia, so he was likely on the phone call.  He would be working with his counterparts at State and Defense.  So all this "deep state" crap is just that  - crap.  As a desk officer, if he was concerned about what was going down, it doesn't surprise me that he would discuss it with the NSC lawyer.  This wasn't a formal process - he stopped down the hall and talked to the lawyer.  He didn't ask for an investigation.  

What you are summarily dismissing is people that actually care what happens, not some deep dark political conspiracy.  Now this LTC may had more concerns about Ukraine, given it is the country of his birth.  I know a lot of Ukrainians who are naturalized citizens and also serve in the military and it seems natural to me that he would be a soldier-stateman for that region, given that he is a native speaker and clearly understands the history.  There is a program in the active duty Army to become a soldier -statesman, and when they graduate from the program all of their future assignments will revolve around their specialty.  Don't forget that the military wanted to have a lot of Russian speakers, because of the cold war and also as the Soviet Union was broken apart.  

Vindman was not trying to make foreign policy - the money had already been allocated to the Ukraine for security assistance.  And yes, sometimes it is held up for one reason or another - but people were concerned because the SA money would expire at the end of the fiscal year (September) and it doesn't appear that Trump enlightened the staff.  This is why there is a problem with Rudy over there making demands on the Ukranian that they had to investigate the Bidens.  You know, MM, I've seen money held up for democratic goals to be met, I've seen programs suspended for corruption, but it is very much out of the norm for the President to lean on a country to achieve his own goal.  That is not the normal way our government conducts businesses.  We might pull assistance or greatly reduce assistance as we did in Central America once the war in El Salvador was resolved.  

At the end of the day, I don't think Trump will be kicked out of office via this impeachment, but what he did is irregular and I can understand why people would believe that it could harm national security with regard to our relationship with Ukraine and Ultimately Russia.  The fact that he released the funds tells me that he realized that he had stepped in it, and the feedback he was getting from his "shadow diplomacy" said the Ukraines were confused about exactly what he wanted.  Just because a quid pro quo didn't take place doesn't mean that it wasn't intended.  

I support a lot of objectives that Trump has, but in this case, he was wrong.  He stepped on it, and this is just what the Democrats were waiting for.  The Democrats don't want to resolve this, this year.  They will try to carry this into next year to make up for the fact that they don't have an electable candidate.  

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Dems think they've hit the jackpot...not!
Date:	10/29/2019 11:11:12 PM (updated 10/29/2019 11:12:14 PM)

Martini, you come across  dumb as a rock with your FOX conspiracy theory. He came to the US as a 3 year old and served his country in Iraq and rceived a Purple Heart while Trump had Dr. assigned bone spurs in the 1960s. You need to find points to post that don't make you come across as someones pet rock.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	MM comes across as exactly what he has become...
Date:	10/29/2019 11:20:08 PM (updated 10/29/2019 11:21:57 PM)

A captive of the Trump Personality Cult!  Hound comes a cross as what she was, in my opinion, before she was momentarily distracted by a shiny object in Donald Trump!  In the end Hound knows the difference between Chicken sh*t and chicken salad...MM does not!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/30/2019 8:20:11 AM (updated 10/30/2019 8:23:53 AM)

What I am pointing out and you are completely missing is that this guy is being presented as something completely new and some unimpeachable, new source of information when if fact I would bet you anything he was one of and maybe the only source of the weaselblower's lies. But they think they've hit the jackpot because the guy wears a uniform.  Considering how you characterized military officers from your experience in DC in many of your past posts I am more than surprised you are falling for it as well.  The uniform doesn't immunize them against human nature, having political views and maybe even disagreeing with a politician's approach to a foreign country.

But most importantly, WE HAVE THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE CALL!!!   If you think what Trump said on the call is an impeachable offense then just say it.  I think it's a complete joke that this is even being discussed as such and if it is so politically damaging then the Democrats should be able to defeat Trump easily in 2020.  But they know they can't with the clown car of candidates.  They have been talking about impeaching him ffrom day one. They struck out with the Russia collusion hoaxes and now this.

My Lord, the things that people fall for as news absolutely amazes me.  It's like a new headline with breathless reporting of an old story with video of the actual event when another witness comes forward a day later.  So frigging what.  A normal person would say, "Why is this news?  We've seen the video.  Man, somebody must think we're stupid."  I can't believe you are falling for the Democrat's politicial stupidity.......I guess PT Barnum had it right.  And of course you can see who your admirers are so there's that.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I knew you'd like their shiny new button
Date:	10/30/2019 8:34:13 AM

As I point out to Hound below in a longer post, we have the actual transcript.  We already knew that people were concerned.  That the Democrats are wrapping already known facts in a shiny new covering doesn't change anything.  We know what Trump said.  We know what Zelensky said.  We know the timing of the funding delay.  We know there was no quid, there was no pro, there was no quid pro quo.  Hold the vote, impeach him, send Nadler to the Senate to make his case, let them vote.  Then in 2020 the American people can decide whether they approve of the process, especially after he is acquitted as a result of all the evidence being presented.  Look at what happened when they impeached Clinton for an actual crime......I truly hope they do it.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Nah....
Date:	10/30/2019 8:39:33 AM

I just have the ability to think logically using facts and reason and I don't suffer from a mental illness like you and Goofy.  The reality is that Trump mentioning the Biden's in the call was politically unwise.  He does a lot of things that go against the normal grain which is why he was booed at a baseball game filled with people suckling off the govt teet.  I could care less about that and look for results. 

I get it you want him impeached because you know none of the Socialists running for president can beat him.  As I've been saying for a while, hold the vote, impeach him, send him to the Senate for acquittal and then we shall see how it works out in 2020.  Look to Clinton's impeachment for a clue......I truly hope they do it.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/30/2019 8:56:52 AM

Just remember that Tulsi ( also former military ) is a Russian agent according to Cankles. So apparently not all former military are treated the same.

I have seen several reports that NSC staff are not supposed to be in uniform - not sure if true or not, but I can imagine that he chose his dress blues for the optics.  Funny that Schitt shut down multiple lines of questioning from republicans - it is a show trial and only to meddle with the 2020 election.

Hopefully the Americans without Antifatech blinders see this chicken schift for what it is.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/30/2019 9:07:06 AM

Yep, not surpised Goofy and Archie have fallen for the shiny new button.  I have zero doubt this guy was the source for the weaselblower.  But when the guy went to Schiff and his staff they embellished it to the point of being a nearly total lie because they knew it was nothing.  But then to their surprise and shock Trump released the transcript....what a brilliant move by a very stable genius.  He knew it would be politically harmful because he mentioned the Biden's but like the Russia collusion hoax he knew there was no quid pro quo and that Zelensky would back him up.  He also knew it wouldn't matter and he did it so the American people can see the truth and judge for themselves.  I say hold the vote, impeach him and he can take this and his acquittal into 2020.  But Nancy has a problem with her caucus.  A number of Dem congress critters in districts that voted for Trump are balking.....and at least one has said publicly he'd vote no and I am sure there are a number of others who have said so privately to Nancy.  She isn't holding the vote until it is unanimous on her side of the aisle, and wisely so.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/30/2019 10:27:24 AM

You have some version of the call that was released by the WH.  Apparently LTC Vindman's insertions were not included when they circulate the transcript for comments.  He filled in the ellipicals, and his comments were not included because they didn't support the WH narrative.  What you don't seem to get is that when something is circulated for comment to the people that were on the phone, protocol is that you don't just get to ignore what you don't like.  It doesn't work that way.  LTC Vindman's insertions had to do with specific comments that Trump told the Ukrainian President that there was a video of Biden.  

MM, don't allow yourself to be manipulated just because you want to support Trump.  That all these people in different positions were not comfortable with what was going down should tell you that they aren't all "hidden Democrats" or part of some swamp that Trump has convinced himself exists.  What he did was highly irregular.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/30/2019 10:33:56 AM

Phil, the military has changed and now uniforms are expected to be worn on duty.  And Dress Blues are now considered Office attire.  They did away with the green uniform and left the dress blues for the office.  Recently they have designed a new service uniform that they are transitioning to, and I believe Gen Milley was wearing it at the press conference the other day.  But these things are transitioned in slowly.  As far as his wearing is medals, he is expected to wear his metals no matter which uniform he wears.  Granted that the dress medals stand out a bit more, but if he is entitled to those medals, then he has to wear the medals that are appropriate to the uniform.  

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	He was elected becasue he is irregular
Date:	10/30/2019 10:51:24 AM (updated 10/30/2019 10:59:04 AM)

We knew he was bombastic in his rhetoric before the election and since has shown himself to be just as much so in his actions.  Just what the country needs at this dire time.  We are at a crossroads and the future of the country as we know it is at stake.

Now please name just one of these "witnesses" that has not been proven out to have deep ties to the democrat swamp dwellers and deep staters.  TDS is ruining some good folks.  

Also irregular doesn't equal illegal of even impeachable.  Hell in DC irregular means actually getting results.  Simply out of the norm or a protocol faux paus doesn't mean a crime occurred. 

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/30/2019 10:58:36 AM

Government "regularity" was what we voters decided we wanted to get rid of Hound.  I am all for Trump "irregularity", not because I necessarily am a blinded Trump supporter, but because the "regular" ways of Washington resulted in what Durham is investigating now. 

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	The fat lady hasn’t yet sung
Date:	10/30/2019 1:27:46 PM

Tomorrow's vote will seal the fate of our representatives!  Doesn't get better than that!

very entertaining

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Think about who you are believing
Date:	10/30/2019 3:10:50 PM (updated 10/30/2019 4:07:12 PM)

Sorry, but I will take what the person transcribed in real time while listening to the call over someone else's memory of the call (regardless of how many medals they parade around wearing).  You know as well as I do how accurate transcripts are as they are done by professionals.  One would think you would recognize that given the significant lies in the weaselblower's account of the call.  And we now know from the NYT...so it may be incorrect...that our military hero tried but failed to alter the record to fit the lies he told the weaselblower.  This is not going to end well for those that fall for the latest fake news.

As for Trump's veracity versus Democrats I only refer you to the Russia collusion hoax.  The very same people that lied through their teeth claiming for two years to have the goods on Trump are the ones you amazingly choose to believe today.  I'm not the one being the rube in this case because so far the only one we know who has told the truth is Trump.  There is a reason Trump was eager to release the transcript.  It's the very same reason that he cooperated fully with the Mueller investigation.  He did nothing wrong in either case.

And let me address this canard about being smitten by Trump.  Nothing could be further from the truth and that is an argument from a position of factual weakness.  My position actually has nothing to do with Trump and has everything to do with his accusers.  They are all lying sacks of excrement as we learned from the whole Russia collusion thing.  Your disdain for certain aspects of Trump's demeanor and how he reacts to things has blinded you to the reality that you are believing what you hear from partisan hacks that have been caught lying and manipulating the system in their quest to find a crime for which to impeach.  Beria famously said, "Show me the man and I'll find you the crime."  That is exactly what is going on here and for some reason you are falling for it.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	The fat lady hasn’t yet sung
Date:	10/30/2019 3:15:48 PM (updated 10/30/2019 3:23:49 PM)

Totally agree and I have been calling for a vote for a while.  Still not sure Nancy has the votes in her caucus but the whip is most likely cajoling, threatening and bribing away to get the stragglers in line.  Let's get on with this in public where Republicans can make their case and let the American people decide.  Unless we learn something substantially different from what we already know I am guessing the numbers supporting impeachment will begin to drop as the so-called patriots whither under cross examination.  And let us not forget this fact, Bill Clinton was impeached from having pled to an actual crime but was not convicted in the Senate.  If I were a GOP Senator that is all I would say.  I am following the precedence set by Democrats telling us an actual crime is not a high enough bar for conviction and this doesn't even remotely rise to that level.  Trump is going to take this into 2020 and the Republican base will be fired up like never before.

And right on time there is a new poll by USA Today about the Zelenksy call.  Here are the results:  So Suffolk/USAT asked: In your view, is call a) impeachable offense; b) wrong, but not impeachable; or c) nothing wrong? Results: Impeachable 38%; wrong, not impeachable 21%; nothing wrong 31%.  So a full 52% think it is not an impeachable offense and only 38% do, which is amazing given that all they know is what has been selectively leaked by Schiff and the relentlessly negative media coverage.  Imagine if they saw the actual transcripts of the testimony and the media were even slightly less biased.  It would be even worse for Democrats.  So far the American people are far more reasonable than Democrats and the looney left.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/30/2019 4:26:50 PM

Like I said - just going by what I did see on a few sites regarding was it appropriate for full dress / medals.  But again all the CNN/ABC/NBC reporters were BOMBSHELL DECORATED BLAH BLAH BLAH.  It is all about painting a picture of someone whose motives can not be questioned, which is why I also included the Cankles comment about Tulsi being a Russian agent.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	I BELIEVE
Date:	10/30/2019 4:51:36 PM

I believe the Colonel and that the "transcript" is not a real transcript and left out key phrases from the conversation. That is the reason Trump agreed to release it.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Of course you do....
Date:	10/30/2019 5:05:01 PM (updated 10/30/2019 5:06:55 PM)

Then again you repeatedly stated the belief that Trump colluded with Russia.....which turned out to be a lie.  And you repeatedly stated that you believed that Trump obstructed justice.....which turned out to be a lie.  So tell me, why should we care what someone suffering from raging TDS believes?  I believed the first two were lies and I was right.  I believe that the unimpeachable source of the weaselblower lies is lying....and my record is way better than yours.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/30/2019 5:58:37 PM

I think the uniform is the least of it.  All I am saying is that he wasn't improperly dressed.  At this point, he had no other uniform to wear, other than camo fatigues, which I think we can both agree was not appropriate.  I see him as a person who is standing on his integrity.  There are still people who do that.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	He was elected becasue he is irregular
Date:	10/30/2019 6:20:47 PM

I think I have said that I don't think he will be impeached.  I was merely stating that this is not the way things are normally done.  Sitting here in the cheap seats, I think I would have been rolling my eyes about this whole thing.  The good news is that Ukraine still got their money, it didn't expire.  I don't fault those that testified that they were alarmed.  It's a marked change from the way we normally conduct our relationship with other countries.  I can think of a few situations when diviating from the norm, didn't end well for us.  You know what else bothers me?  This nagging thought that Trump got the idea from Putin.  Putin would love nothing more than to see Ukraine collapse.  Without US aid, that will surely happen.  So did Trump figure he could lean on the new President and use him?  If this hadn't come to light when it did, would the security assistance continue to be withheld and potetially lost?  Maybe Ukraine was not the object of the quid pro quo, but maybe the quid pro quo was with Russia/Putin?

You know, Trump is a very self confident guy - a stable genius, by his own words.  So in my mind, he should think he had no competition - so why is he looking for dirt on Biden?  Without knowing what was in Trump's head, who really knows what he thinks?  In my mind, I don't think we should be inviting foreign governments to get dirt on our citizens - it wasn't right what Clinton did with the dossier and it isn't right for Trump to be trying to dig up dirt on Biden.  I don't think that what happened wth Biden's son was right, but it wasn't illegal.  Biden bragging about his actions was wrong - but I think the bigger punishment will be when Biden is not the next President.  He doesn't have a good track record as a Senator, he was Obama's lap dog, and nothing that I see leads me to conclude that he's the savior of the Democratic party.  

I don't have TDS.  But I'm willing to call a spade, a spade.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	He was elected becasue he is irregular
Date:	10/30/2019 6:20:49 PM

I think I have said that I don't think he will be impeached.  I was merely stating that this is not the way things are normally done.  Sitting here in the cheap seats, I think I would have been rolling my eyes about this whole thing.  The good news is that Ukraine still got their money, it didn't expire.  I don't fault those that testified that they were alarmed.  It's a marked change from the way we normally conduct our relationship with other countries.  I can think of a few situations when diviating from the norm, didn't end well for us.  You know what else bothers me?  This nagging thought that Trump got the idea from Putin.  Putin would love nothing more than to see Ukraine collapse.  Without US aid, that will surely happen.  So did Trump figure he could lean on the new President and use him?  If this hadn't come to light when it did, would the security assistance continue to be withheld and potetially lost?  Maybe Ukraine was not the object of the quid pro quo, but maybe the quid pro quo was with Russia/Putin?

You know, Trump is a very self confident guy - a stable genius, by his own words.  So in my mind, he should think he had no competition - so why is he looking for dirt on Biden?  Without knowing what was in Trump's head, who really knows what he thinks?  In my mind, I don't think we should be inviting foreign governments to get dirt on our citizens - it wasn't right what Clinton did with the dossier and it isn't right for Trump to be trying to dig up dirt on Biden.  I don't think that what happened wth Biden's son was right, but it wasn't illegal.  Biden bragging about his actions was wrong - but I think the bigger punishment will be when Biden is not the next President.  He doesn't have a good track record as a Senator, he was Obama's lap dog, and nothing that I see leads me to conclude that he's the savior of the Democratic party.  

I don't have TDS.  But I'm willing to call a spade, a spade.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Think about who you are believing
Date:	10/30/2019 6:30:14 PM

But the point is this - the transcript was reconstucted from voice recognition software and notes made during the call by the various participants.  The ellipcals are supposed to be where the voice recogniton software didn't catch what was said and when the draft transcript was circulated, people were supposed to consult their notes and fill in the gaps.  This wasn't from memory.  People took notes.  Notes, MFRs are official working papers and cannot be destroyed under law.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Think about who you are believing
Date:	10/30/2019 6:37:39 PM

So basically you think this is all a big conspiracy to make Trump look bad?  You do realize that people take an oath to tell the truth before they testify?  

This is damaging the reputation of the U.S., and we will be seen as an unreliable partner.  The way things are done have been good enough to get this country to this point, but now you think that it should all be thrown out because Trump has poor impulse control and has a crackpot like Guiliani (who seems to be believe that he is somesort of Ambassador without portfolio) running around acting like a gangster threatening countries?  That might be the government you want, but it's not the one I want.  

MM, I am sorry but you are hopeless  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	No, you are hopeless
Date:	10/30/2019 8:09:31 PM (updated 10/30/2019 8:21:32 PM)

My goodness Hound, you act as if the entire Russia collusion hoax had never happened.  It literally amazes me that given all that we know that you are still believing what these abject liars are saying.  Astounding really.  You just cannot imagine that there was a concerted effort in the bureacracy to oust Trump despite absolute proof that it happened.  These latest development pale in comparison to the original hoax and yet for some reason you are buying it hook, line and sinker.  

As for the claim about errors in the voice transcription software, all I can say is that you are competely out to lunch.  No doubt it can miss a word here and there.  But when you look at the weaselblower report it would have had to miss entire sentences (possibly paragraphs), multiples of them, not just words.  I've used the off the shelf stuff and it is way better than that.  And what they use is high end software, not Dragonspeak or some others.  Might I suggest you spend a few minutes comparing the weaselblower's report to the transcript and come back and tell me if the software they used is really that bad.  This is not even a serious conversation as my iPhone does a better job transcribing voice messages.  But hey, maybe the Federal government uses a completely worthless program that misses entire paragraphs.  Go look and come back and tell me its a transcription error.  If you do, I will have to put you into the same category as Goofy and Archie, a TDS sufferer.  But if you look at it with an open mind you will see that it is simply impossible for the software to account for the difference between the actual call and what was falsely claimed.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/30/2019 8:14:27 PM

You do realize he never wore his uniform in his official capacity, right?  Nor did he wear his uniform as a registered agent for the Ukranian govt, a capacity he held while working the government.  I continue to be surprised at your falling for these theatrics....you of all people that know exactly what the general officer corps is like and have told us frequently.  Lot's of good ones doesn't mean they are all good or honorable or are incapable of lying.  I learned that from you from your government experience as you pointed out to us many, many times.  Sad, but likely true....unless what you have said those many times in the past was untrue.  I somehow doubt that but only you know for sure.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	He was elected becasue he is irregular
Date:	10/30/2019 8:17:52 PM (updated 10/30/2019 8:19:27 PM)

I agree with most of this but your conclusions based on the timeline, which is all wrong.  Ukraine didn't know about the hold up of funding and the funding occurred before the weaselblower report hit the news.  Also, I don't think Democrats have a choice but to impeach...their base will have nothing less.  He won't be convicted unless something other than what has been revealed comes to light.  But otherwise I agree with most of this.  Maybe I'm not so hopeless after all?!?!?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	CRD you are blind
Date:	10/30/2019 9:17:47 PM

if it has not become crystal clear by now that you are a ''blind Trump supporter'' and an abject Trump apologist that refuses to accept any, and I mean literally any, criticism of this man or his actions.  It's time to wake up and see!!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	''MM, I'm sorry but you are hopeless.''
Date:	10/30/2019 9:24:38 PM

Not to mention a member of the ordained clergy in the Donald Trump Cult of Personalty!!

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	whistleblower
Date:	10/30/2019 9:53:51 PM

https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/30/anti-trump-whistleblower-worked-with-dnc-operative-who-sought-dirt-on-trump-from-ukrainian-officials/

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	MM
Date:	10/30/2019 10:31:33 PM

You have to remember, Hound existed among Deep State creatures for many years.  You can leave and claim you're cured....but someone indoctronated for decades is never cured.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/31/2019 8:24:28 AM

So he only wears dress blues to work daily?  He does not have a normal suit that he wears monday - friday when he is not at a hearing?

I call Bull schift.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	He was elected becasue he is irregular
Date:	10/31/2019 8:39:34 AM

I think it is less about getting dirt on Biden because I dont think he will be the canidate - I think it was about finding out where the multiyear million dollar BS Russia investigation started.  If that falls on Obama and Biden, let the chips fall where they may. 

If you are not supposed to attack your political rivals etc - then what the F do you call the Russia investigation at this point?  There is more then enough evidence that it was a sham, political dirt and foreign election meddling bought and paid for by DNC/Hillary/Obama and weaponsized by all "17" intelligence services and other alphabet offices.

It used to be that we had a transisition of power, when some felt that Hillary could lose they knew that they could not allow this president to move his agenda forward and crippled his administration with BS after BS attacks all relating back the "Russian" claims.

If it was OK and legal for Obama and his minions in the alpabits groups to do what they did - then why in the hell is it illegal for Trump to basically do his job and attempt to figure out who were the ones who actually put their thumbs on the 2016 election scale, even if that makes a small ripple in the 2020 election. 

Do you feel that with the information that is coming out about the start of the Russia investigation that it was "normal" or "business as usual" ?? - well for Obama, IRS and his alphabet minions we have seen that it was business as normal, but that is not the way our government is supposed to operate, and if it is allowed to continue you can kiss this the rights of citizens goodbye and welcome to the United States of Venezuela.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Another govt school fail
Date:	10/31/2019 9:06:09 AM

Archie, not only did they fail to teach you basic civics but you have a reading comprehension issue as well.  As I stated above, this actually has nothing to do with Trump. It has everything to do with his accusers and my ability to read the actual transcript, the weaselblower report and the leaks from the Star Chamber.  But now you idiots expect us to believe that the transcription software left out whole sentences and paragraghs but everything in between sounded like a perfectly flowing conversation.  Are you really that stupid? Wait....don't answer that.....I think we already know.

But more to the point, those running this sh!t show are proven liars and those accusing him are part of the very same deep state that spied on a candidate for President, perpetrated the Russia collusion hoax and set up the wasted Mueller investigation.  But now all of the sudden one of them shows up with shiny medals and we're supposed to forget the last three years?!?!?  Sorry, but only someoone suffering from a mental illness could do that.....which means you and Goofy.

Ask for a refund Archie.....you really deserve it.  Get help for your TDS....professional help.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	MM
Date:	10/31/2019 9:16:03 AM

She's generally been very sensible about all this and I am really surprised she seems to be falling for this latest tactic.  So we have this guy leaking to the weaselblower and that all blows up and so he probably figures they're gonna find out it was him anyway.  So he coordinated with Pencil Neck to march out in his dress blues as his patriotic duty when all he's doing is immunizing himself against the leaks and the mess he created in the first place.  Makes me wonder if the weaselblower saw his cover being blown and he told our patriotic friend that if he is under oath he isn't going to lie so the guy runs to some Democrat lawyer and asks for advice.  And shabam!   We get Mr. Patriot.

And his failed attempt to alter the record was now all of the sudden because the software that transcribed the call (which sounded like a perfectly normal conversation) missed entire sentences and probably even paragraphs when you look at the discrepency between the transcript and the weaselblower report.  So as his solemn patriotic duty he decided to add sentences and paragraphs that the software missed that he was certain he heard and transcribed perfectly unlike that faulty, unreliable software, right?  I am an Occam's Razor proponent and I am going with the simplest explanation.  He was trying to alter the record to match the lies he told to the weaselblower to cover his tracks.  And I get that Goofy and Archie and other TDS sufferers will believe anything anyone says as long as it is anti-Trump, but the rest of us can actually think.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/31/2019 10:11:26 AM

It is.  It has been reported that he wore a suit to work in the WH.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/31/2019 10:38:39 AM

wait a minute, at what point was he a registered agent for the Ukraine.  The man is a military officer and would not be permitted to be a registered agent for the Ukraine.  For that, you have to have to make it public and get approval and would not happen.   How do you know what he wore to work everyday?  In my experience, all military wear their uniforms to work, unless they work for an intelligence agency and the NSC is not an intelligence agency.  Do you even understand the purpose for having military working in the offices? 

There was a time during and right after Viet Nam, when the military that worked in DC did not wear their uniforms to work, but that hasn't been the case in years.  For a while, the Army was wearing their BDUs to work to show solidarity with their brothers in arms, but that was stopped shortly after I retired and when they did away with the service uniform (the green uniform), the dress for office work was the dress uniform.  They are transitioning into a new service uniform, but I doubt it is widely available yet. 

What LTC Vindman is, is a desk officer for a portfolio that includes Ukraine.  He is what is known as a foreign area officer, which means his assignments outside of the troop Army, would be centered in jobs that region.  I was a desk officer for the Middle East and later, for Latin America for the Army.  The NSC is an assignment like any other made by his assignments officer with the Army.  He's not an agent, he is not a lobbyist, he is in his job because he is a foreign area officer.  He is the White House face to the country, in this case, Ukraine.  He's required to be an expert to advise the President via his chain of command.  

Y'all are so out in left field it is scary.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/31/2019 10:43:08 AM

You can call it anything you like, but yes, that is the uniform.  Has been for at least 5-6 years.  They did away with the service uniform which was green with a lighter green shirt.  That left the camo BDUs.  Military District Washington made the decision that for Army, the office uniform for Washington was the dress blues.  

To my knowledge the only ones that are permitted to wear other than a uniform to work are those working in an intelligence agency, and that is to keep them from being targeted.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/31/2019 10:43:55 AM

Who reported that?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Phil
Date:	10/31/2019 10:50:34 AM

They paid to have that false dossier put together.  This is different because Trump is the President of the United States, using his position to obtain dirt.  

But ask yourself, considering it all, is it correct for anyone in official public life - including Hilary, to be trying to obtain dirt on another American, solely to try to win the election?  At some point, it has to stop.  Just watching Trump for years and years, this is probably SOP for Trump in business; however it changes when you are now the President of a country.  None of it is right and it is making our political process look like that of a 3rd world government. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/31/2019 10:55:47 AM

Righto....numerous sources in the NSC stated that he wore a suit to work, not his uniform.  Not sure what he wore in his other capacities but at least at NSC military folks apparently wear suits like everyone else.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	CRD you are blind
Date:	10/31/2019 10:57:32 AM

Archie, news for you.   I am a  supporter of limited government interference in my life, retention of second amendment rights, limited taxation, no freebies for those who don't want to work for it, no erasing of whatever debt, be it student loans etc on my back, absolute inpenetrable borders that will keep individuals wanting to enter my country illegally on their side of the border, strict constitutionalist judges, sentences that support the crime and no universal healthcare.   If DJT's platform and agenda accomplishes these and then some, then damn right I am a Trump "apologist" and proud of it.  You see, your lib/progressive strategy is to associate my politics with whatever problem you have with Trump.  Won't work on me, and polling data says it ain't working with flyover America either.   

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Think about who you are believing
Date:	10/31/2019 11:04:08 AM

Hound, you must be kidding me.  I can perform surgery, head to a telephone, transcribe my report and have a copy of it in my EMR and office in 2 hours.  Verbatim.  No errors o/t punctuation.  And you wonder why we are so frustrated with the workings inside the beltway?

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	We have the transcript
Date:	10/31/2019 11:06:45 AM (updated 10/31/2019 11:07:45 AM)

Hound is right about the Pentagon and civilian dress.  As a young Air Force Captain I worked on the Air Staff (HQ USAF) starting in the Fall of 1974.  Our "uniform of the day" was civilian attire, coat and tie.  I am not sure how long that lasted but would say within a year we were directed to wear our uniforms every day at work.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	No, you are hopeless
Date:	10/31/2019 11:11:30 AM

I hope you understand that the government does not invest in high quality electronics.  A number of people testified that the voice recognition software often misses words and phrases.  Why else do you think that the transcript was circulated around the staff participants for insertions and corrections?  There are eliipicals in the written transcript, so if the voice recognition program was perfect there wouldn't be any ellipicals at all.  

I do not have TDS and I am nothing like Arch or GF.  And yes, I do think that the Democrats have been out to get Trump from day1.  And I do believe that the Whistleblower did coordinate with Schiff.  However, I do not believe that means everyone else is rogue, that people had concerns about what happened in that phone call.  Apparently some of them knew about Guiliani, but others didn't.  It's not a vast left wing conspiracy.  It isn't a swamp when people have valid concerns that they raise.  I can tell you that if I got called to testify before Congress, I would feel obligated to do so and I would tell the truth as I knew it. Doesn't mean that every one of my perceptions would be true, or that I knew everything there was to know.  These people can't control Congress or what Congress is trying to do and most likely they know that their careers in government are over.  so why wouln't I just tell the truth as I know it.  

Don't pretend you understand the mindset.  Yes, there are rogue players in the mix, but not everyone is rogue.  Some people try to do the right thing and actually believe in our system of government.  Generally speaking, people who play in the security assistance and diplomatic corps believe in what they are doing and are trying to do it right.  

Frankly, one of the reasons I retired when I did was that I was incensed by Bush and his decision to invade Iraq.  An idea by a bunch of political appointees with some pie in the sky idea that they were able to sell Bush.  I saw what was going on with the intell, and I thought it was wrong.  Had I been called to testify, I would have told them the truth as I knew it.  I agreed with Colin Powell.  My career would have been over, so there would have been no reason not to tell the truth.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	MM
Date:	10/31/2019 11:37:37 AM

thank you - I do actually think.  I have an understanding that some of you don't have.  I accept that.  Just because what is being said doesn't fit that narrative that you all seem to believe, doesn't mean I'm right or I'm wrong, we just see it differently.  

I do not understand this phrase that Trump made up "deep state" and I don't think it exists.   Just because there are a few rogue players, doesn't mean every one is corrupt.  Just like because they have caught a handful of spies from the CIA, doesn't mean that the CIA is corrupt.  I suspect that Trump got that from Rumsfelt who believed all civilians were people trying to give his new idea and desires the They are the ones that want to be surrounded by "yes" men who will never raise a counterpoint or try to explain why their big idea will not work.  Just like Colin told Bush "you break it, you bought it".  And he broke it and we are still paying for it.  But Bush didn't want to hear that.

I can not agree with what Trump has done here, but still believe what  he has done the right thing with immigration, and what he has done with the economy is good.  People screw up - even Presidents, because they are human; but it doesn't necessarily mean that everything he has done is worthless.  You really have to have had the occassion to work with foreign governments to understand the trust they put in us.  For them, security assistance means they can fight and defend their country.  To us, we want them to be our allies and to be able to remain independent and to defend themselves.  We want them to fight with our weapons and to train with us, because that builds that level of trust.  We want them to see how democracy works and how it is possible for the milltary to serve whomever sits in the WH.  I spent over 20 years working in that enviroment.  I know how it helps our own military and how it benefits our defense industry.  I've known Ambassadors and country teams and know the difference between those that are politcally appointed because of campaign donation and those that are Foreign Service Officers who have moved up through the ranks.  

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Know the feeling
Date:	10/31/2019 12:19:14 PM

It is a sense of hopelessness, but you have all these years in service that you dare not lose in the retirement formula.  I felt like a prostitute and retired the moment it was possible.  Mine was at the state level but know exactly how you felt.  Since that time I've seen the deep state get worse and self serving.  Sad but we all have our stories of learned helplessness.  

what is going on in the House today is like a banana republic coup.  I still have faith in Americans as a whole!  

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Kangaroos
Date:	10/31/2019 12:51:08 PM

Would be insulted if their name was to be associated with this "court".  Pitiful exercise of power just because they can.  Not interested in justice, just power, with no concern whatsoever about the means as lon as the end is accomplished.

And the sad thing is that those who rely on the mainstream media for information will never be told just how wrong this process is.  

If Trump is indeed impeached I look forward to the WHOLE truth coming out in the Senate trial.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Phil
Date:	10/31/2019 2:00:31 PM

They paid to have that false dossier put together.  This is different because Trump is the President of the United States, using his position to obtain dirt.  

So as long as Hillary and the DNC paid for it and not Obama / Biden you see no problems with it, or them feeding it into the FBI/CIA/DOJ etc to utilze it to spy on a campaign????  Holy cow, you accept that as OK but Trump because he is president and has been accused of being a russia asset for 3 years now can do nothing to push back against it because it is improper???  Dear God, with that I now understand why Washington DC is so screwed up.

But ask yourself, considering it all, is it correct for anyone in official public life - including Hilary, to be trying to obtain dirt on another American, solely to try to win the election? 

You mean like the Steele Dossier / Ukraine Black ledger ???  no it is not correct, should never had been done - and had it not been done Trump would not have to be looking into who started this crap.

At some point, it has to stop.  Just watching Trump for years and years, this is probably SOP for Trump in business; however it changes when you are now the President of a country.  None of it is right and it is making our political process look like that of a 3rd world government. 

You are damn right it has to stop, but ask yourself this - without actual consequences for the acts in the 2016 election will it stop?  Do you think that people like Hillary, DNC, Obama who used paid for bull schift from foreign sources and used the entire government basically to attempt to alter an election and the future of a president - do you think that they will wake up at some point and go "woops, we should not have done that and should not do it again", or more along the "business as usual in Washington DC"  is more along the lines of "We got away with doing it and will do it again whenever it is to our advantage politically"

If you think anything in Washington will change without major players going to prison or paying major penalities then you are whistling past Archies graveyard with blinders on. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Nope, don't believe you have TDS
Date:	10/31/2019 2:12:11 PM

I do think you fell for their latest shiny object as if it was something new and unimpeachable.  As for the software, I have to admit I am extremely skeptical that they are using voice recognition software for calls made by the President of the U.S. to another foriegn leader that is so awful that it misses multiple sentences and paragraphs of conversation but is so sophisticated that it makes the rest of the conversation appear normal, flowing, cogent and sensical.  Dragonspeak can be had for $49 and would never miss entire sentences or paragraphs.  So no, I am not even remotely buying it.  Nor am I buying this latest guy as being a paragon of virtue, especially as we learn more about him.  He was upset with some of what Trump said, maybe he totally disagrees with their strategy toward the Ukraine.  He leaked the conversation and either he lied about what was said or the weaselblower, who we now know is a partisan hack who was fired from the WH, lied about what he was told.  And now we learn he tried to alter the official record to match the lies in the weaselblower report.  Either way, this entire thing is a scam and now that they have committed political hari kari we will see how it works out.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Rev MM
Date:	10/31/2019 2:15:08 PM

your reply post reinforces and affirms my post!!!!  You are a hopeless convert to the cult.  Amazing how your comments have drifted from disgust and concern to adulation and blind defense since 2016!

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Nope, don't believe you have TDS
Date:	10/31/2019 2:17:35 PM

If the software is so error prone and crappy - why do they not just record all calls between between anyone high up such as POTUS, speaker of house, heads of departments etc.  ? and then there is never any doubt as to what is said/who said/ no blanks.

I do agree that their solution is probably 50 years old and is probably outdated and crappy - that seems to be what the governemnt does best is spend top dollar on old outdated solutions and never keep up with the times.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Yet again you are unable to comprehend
Date:	10/31/2019 2:24:20 PM

simple English.  If that is what you get from my post Archie then I fear for every building you have designed.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Phil
Date:	10/31/2019 6:37:54 PM

Let me be clear:  I do NOT condone any of it.  But since when did one bad turn deserve another?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Know the feeling
Date:	10/31/2019 6:44:35 PM

I never felt like a prostitue and thanks to a generous inheritence, in my later years of my career, I was never in the golden handcuffs.  In fact, I took an early out and retired at age 51.  

I don't believe in deep state or deep defense or deep anything.  I saw things done that I didn't necessarily agree with, and I only got very disgusted when Bush allowed Doug Feith to set up an alternate intel group who would cherry pick intelligence that supported what he wanted the President to believe.  As we know, that ended up with the invasion of Iraq.   That particular ball was never in my court, but I was close enough to see what was happening.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Kangaroos
Date:	10/31/2019 6:55:55 PM

We can only hope that the complete truth will come out.  I agree that this is the Democrats in a death spiral over the 2020 election.  They do not have a strong candidate and they are absolutely panicked.   I lay the blame strictly on the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Schiff.  

Tim Morrison had to say that he didn't hear anything illegal in that call, because he did not register a formal concern.  I have no idea if it is illegal for the President to make a request to foreign government, and that will be part of the complete truth.  I just don't think it was right to play on another country's vulnerability.  It doesn't much matter if they knew their money was on hold or at what point they knew, but they definitely knew they were being leaned on.  And that is what I think is wrong.  If you are going after Biden's son pedaling influence for personal gain, let's go after everyone's kids that do that  and members of Congress that squeeze lobbyists.  Nothing says that Trump couldn't construct his own investigation.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Nope, don't believe you have TDS
Date:	10/31/2019 7:04:37 PM

It didn't miss whole paragraphs.  What was missing was his reference to Biden's video and something else.  No one has said that whole paragraphs were missing.  If there is nothing missing - why the ellipicals in the transcript?  How do you explain that?  

I don't believe Vindman anymore than I believe anyone else.  I'm just saying when you have a number of people testifying and they may disagree on small details, but their narratives pretty much the same.  Now you can call that a "conspiracy" or you can believe that a number of people were involved and had pretty much the same recollection.  Morrison's testimony pretty much support Bill Taylor.  

For me, it isn't as much about the phone call - that was the result of a lot of behind the scenes manipulation by Guiliani, Sondson, and whomever Guiliani was working with.  I had to laugh today when he said that Trump wouldn't hang him out to dry.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Here are a few examples to ponder
Date:	10/31/2019 10:21:02 PM

You need to read the weaselblower report and compare it to the transcript.  There was a lot more missing than one sentence from what was in the report.  Here are just three glaring errors although there are many more.

The complaint accuses the president of requesting that Zelensky "locate and turn over servers used by the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and examined by the U.S. cybersecurity firm Crowdstrike”

But that never happened.   Read the transcript and you'll see one short reference to Crowdstrike and no request for the server.

The complaint accuses the president of urging Zelensky to hold onto then-Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Yuriy Lutsenko, who was later ousted from his post on Aug. 19.

But that also never happened.

The complaint stated that President Trump explicitely threatened funding if they didn't investigate the Bidens.

But that also never happened.  Maybe someone could convey this threat in a single sentence but I doubt it.  Had he threatened their funding I can assure you it would have generated a response from Zelensky.  Maybe the threat and the response could be done in a single sentence but I seriously doubt it.

There is simply no way all those could have happened in a single sentence nor could that specific content have been magically absent from the transcript due to faulty software.  The complaint claimed people were on the call that weren't.  He stated that it was classified secret even though no classified information was in it.  That was false as it included Zelensky criticizing other foreign leaders which would always make it classified. 

Face it Hound, there is simply no way to blame faulty software for the discrepencies, especially since it completely comports with what all but two witnesses have stated happened.  Including Morrison who claimed the transcript was accurate, there was no pressure, no quid pro qou and no illegalities whatsoever.  I seriously do not understand why you are choosing to believe two people over the half dozen, including Zelensky, that have a completely different recollection of the call and which are all consistent with the transcript.  Especially knowing what we know about the ones that have a different version of the call.  As for the ellipticals, they designate an incomplete sentence and the beginning of a new thought, not a bunch of missing text.  It's fanciful thinking at best to try to fill in entire sentences in the place of the ellipticals but that's what they did even though it made no sense.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Phil
Date:	11/1/2019 9:29:25 AM

I get the whole idea of two wrongs do not make a right.

But, in your honest former government opinion.  Lets play Archibalds hypothetical game.

Lets assume the worst for a moment is 100% factual.

1. Obama told the CIA/FBI to find a way to tie Trump to Russians anyway they could to destroy him in the election

2. All "17 of the ICs" got right on it paying for and digging dirt from every foreign source they could get.

3. IRS/DOJ/FBI/CIA/XYZ/FISA was weaponized against Americans, spying on a rival campaign, attempted to force the canidate out before the election.

4. #3 above was continually used to harass and derail most agenda items and consumed the first term of a presidency and is being used to swing votes for the 2nd term.

5. That same administration that was weaponizing the agencies used foreign governments to spy on Americans, our presidential canidate and incoming president.

Now I am not going to claim that it is all true.  But just for fun, lets assume that it is mostly factual.  We are now 2016 election + 3 years and as of right now they got away with all of the above in the 2016 election,  What in you opinion is going to stop them from doing similar things in 2020 and even when Trump is out of office- doing this to the next person who is elected president?  What is going to stop politicans and unelected bureaucrats from deciding that they do not like this persons policies and personality so that they have no choice but to bring the full force of the intelligence community, FBI and CIA against someone.

What the Obama administration did to this president should never happen again.  If the investigaion into quid pro quo of the president that is currently going on in the Basement of Schift is enough to have him removed from office, at the least Joe Biden should not be allowed to run for President based on the video of him admitting to a quid pro quo.  

Nothing will change as long as long as it is DC "business as usual", change does not happen because one or two people woke up one day and decide that what they did was wrong and should never happen again.  

I am sorry, I believe that a someone who gets away with crimes or actions that they do often just makes them bolder in the future as they feel that they have got away with it for so long that they are untouchable.  They do not wake up one day and decide that they are  a bad person doing bad things and should start doing what is right.  They will continue to do bad things, and graduate to worse things over time because they keep getting away with it.

Keep in mind also that what has happened for around 4 years now could now be considered precedent.  Since no laws have been suggested, no rules have been changed, nothing other then investigate Trump for Russia connections in the 2016 election  we can assume that everyone is OK with what happened with 2016 foreign dirt.  We have not seen anyone on either side pass new rules/laws/resolutions/non-binding crap that would in any way condemn what happened in 2016 other then the Mueller inspection that focused 100% on Trump and his adminsitration.

But now that we have some people looking into the wizard behind the screens that put it all into motion to determine if it really was legal with the possiility that wrongdoing may actually have a punishment -All we hear is that what Trump is doing is wrong because it is different.  Well sorry, but if the above does turn out to be true, then different may be a good thing.  And at the worst maybe it will mean some laws/rules that actually change washington for the better and not the worse.  I keep saying it can not get much worse, but then they find some way to make me decide they can always find a way to go lower.