Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	RIF
Date:	1/15/2019 10:29:17 AM

Saw this on one of my news sites this morning - Pretty sure unless someone does something we will go past 30 days without a change - may be a way to trim the federal government.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/workforce-restructuring/reductions-in-force/

The U.S. Office of Personnel Management develops policy and provides guidance to Federal agencies regarding Reduction in Force (RIF). This page serves as a portal to assist you in locating pertinent information and content related to RIF in the Federal Government.

When an agency must abolish positions, the RIF regulations determine whether an employee keeps his or her present position, or whether the employee has a right to a different position. The regulatory requirements governing reduction in force are contained in Title 5, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 351. Federal agencies must follow the procedures contained in the Code of Federal Regulations when conducting a RIF. The law provides that OPM's RIF regulations must give effect to four factors in releasing employees:

1. tenure of employment (e.g., type of appointment);
2. veterans' preference;
3. length of service; and
4. performance ratings.

An agency is required to use the RIF procedures when an employee is faced with separation or downgrading for a reason such as reorganization, lack of work, shortage of funds, insufficient personnel ceiling, or the exercise of certain reemployment or restoration rights. A furlough of more than 30 calendar days, or of more than 22 discontinuous work days, is also a RIF action. (A furlough of 30 or fewer calendar days, or of 22 or fewer discontinuous work days, is an adverse action.)

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	RIF
Date:	1/15/2019 12:56:08 PM

I have wondered every time there ia shutdown about back pay. Why is it that everyone gets back pay. I fully support the back pay for essential workers who are required to work  during shutdowns but why is it the ones who get to sit at home get back pay also? It seems very unfair to me.

Hound can you offer any insight?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	RIF
Date:	1/15/2019 9:24:09 PM

The back pay is not automatic.  Congress has to determine if back pay is warranted.  In the past, it was viewed that the government shutdown is due to no fault of the employees.  The longer this goes on, the less chance for back pay to be gratned (in my opinion).  Since management declares who is "essential" and who is "non-essentail", only essentail employees are allow to show up and work.  I suspect in the past that they have just made it blanket for everyone, because it is easier and less likely to engender lawsuits.  

Regarding a RIF beiing a good way to reduce government.  RIFs cost the government money in the short term, because severance pay will be due.  RIFs usually hurt the lowest graded employees (unless they are veterans).  When they eliminate jobs, the people that are in those jobs have the right to bump lower grade employees, who likely have less time with the government.  To further complicate it - Verterans have preference and generally can't be bumped -(disabled vets are the most protected - they are called 10 pt. veterans) other veterans are 5 point veterans) then comes every one else.  So if a disabled veteran's job were eliminated, he would have bumping rights of 5 pt veteran, who would then be able to bump someone with no military service.  From there it goes by years of service - there is a roster, so you can see exactly where you stand and who you can bump or not.  And it is also divided by "supervsiory or non-supervisory" so each of those have their own list and bumping rights.  So poeple start bumping downward and the people that actually go out the door are the youngest or less time in service.  It's complicated, it takes months, and it is very expensive in the short term.  Further, if you are bumped from a GS-9 to a GS-7, you retain your pay as a GS-9 for two years (while you are doing GS-7 work) and if you regain your old grade (GS-9), you will gain 2 steps of pay on your repromotion.  Senior Executives and Polical appointees are exmept, of course.  All these things require months of prior notice, and written notification before anything can happen.  A person can be bumped multiple times.  At one point there was talk about taking the last 2 performance appraisals into account, but that system is so over inflated, and I don't know that it would make much difference.  

I got riffed early in my career from a GS-5 to a GS-4.  But I had the right to apply for jobs as a GS-7 and was promoted.  

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention - before you can have a RIF, you have to offer an "early out", so that anyone within range of retirement, can go out on retirement.  They've been running them for years now, so I'm not sure how many people are left that fall linto that category ( you have to have 30 years and you lose 2% of the retirement pay for every year you are under 55).  

And let me say this - just because somone is designated "non-essential" in a shutdown, does not mean their job is not important.  While they are sitting at home on furlough, their work in piling up and they will have a huge backlog when they get back to work.There is generally only 3-5 people per office that are desigated "essentail" and all that means is that they will be there to keep minimal operations going.  Unless by policy change or legislative change, their work does not go away.  

If you want to reduce govenrment you either have to change why the job exists via consilidation or elimination, they not let the job be filled when someone retires or quits.  These days, it just means that they will hire some contractor to do the job - which BTW, cost the government just as much, but the color of the money is different, so it looks like you have done soemthing.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	RIF
Date:	1/15/2019 9:24:10 PM

The back pay is not automatic.  Congress has to determine if back pay is warranted.  In the past, it was viewed that the government shutdown is due to no fault of the employees.  The longer this goes on, the less chance for back pay to be gratned (in my opinion).  Since management declares who is "essential" and who is "non-essentail", only essentail employees are allow to show up and work.  I suspect in the past that they have just made it blanket for everyone, because it is easier and less likely to engender lawsuits.  

Regarding a RIF beiing a good way to reduce government.  RIFs cost the government money in the short term, because severance pay will be due.  RIFs usually hurt the lowest graded employees (unless they are veterans).  When they eliminate jobs, the people that are in those jobs have the right to bump lower grade employees, who likely have less time with the government.  To further complicate it - Verterans have preference and generally can't be bumped -(disabled vets are the most protected - they are called 10 pt. veterans) other veterans are 5 point veterans) then comes every one else.  So if a disabled veteran's job were eliminated, he would have bumping rights of 5 pt veteran, who would then be able to bump someone with no military service.  From there it goes by years of service - there is a roster, so you can see exactly where you stand and who you can bump or not.  And it is also divided by "supervsiory or non-supervisory" so each of those have their own list and bumping rights.  So poeple start bumping downward and the people that actually go out the door are the youngest or less time in service.  It's complicated, it takes months, and it is very expensive in the short term.  Further, if you are bumped from a GS-9 to a GS-7, you retain your pay as a GS-9 for two years (while you are doing GS-7 work) and if you regain your old grade (GS-9), you will gain 2 steps of pay on your repromotion.  Senior Executives and Polical appointees are exmept, of course.  All these things require months of prior notice, and written notification before anything can happen.  A person can be bumped multiple times.  At one point there was talk about taking the last 2 performance appraisals into account, but that system is so over inflated, and I don't know that it would make much difference.  

I got riffed early in my career from a GS-5 to a GS-4.  But I had the right to apply for jobs as a GS-7 and was promoted.  

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention - before you can have a RIF, you have to offer an "early out", so that anyone within range of retirement, can go out on retirement.  They've been running them for years now, so I'm not sure how many people are left that fall linto that category ( you have to have 30 years and you lose 2% of the retirement pay for every year you are under 55).  

And let me say this - just because somone is designated "non-essential" in a shutdown, does not mean their job is not important.  While they are sitting at home on furlough, their work in piling up and they will have a huge backlog when they get back to work.There is generally only 3-5 people per office that are desigated "essentail" and all that means is that they will be there to keep minimal operations going.  Unless by policy change or legislative change, their work does not go away.  

If you want to reduce govenrment you either have to change why the job exists via consilidation or elimination, they not let the job be filled when someone retires or quits.  These days, it just means that they will hire some contractor to do the job - which BTW, cost the government just as much, but the color of the money is different, so it looks like you have done soemthing.  

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	RIF
Date:	1/15/2019 10:24:51 PM

That is a very interesting explanation. Thanks.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	RIF
Date:	1/16/2019 7:15:52 AM

Very interesting. Convoluted like only the government can do. I actually read yesterday evening that the bill POTUS ia about to sign will provide for those that worked but will not pay those that stayed home. Like you, I think  they  always just paid everyone because it was easy and the time frame so short that nobody actually missed paychecks if goes till a second paycheck is missed NanChuck will start to feel the heat. It's hard to claim your negotiating when you won't even come to the table.