Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/22/2016 3:52:01 PM

The esteemed authority - former Gen McCaffery - says that the problem with Europe is that they have no borders.  The Muslims immigrate there with no intention of assimilating and they are angry, disinfranchised and unscreened, leaving Europe vulnerable.  Donald Trump is right - we need to stop immigration until we figure out who the refugees are and how are we controlling them. 

Donald Trump is also right about how we are engaging this enemy.  In WWII, we attacked and bombed population centers, and brought them to their knees.  We won that war.  We haven't won one since, because we send our military to fight, and then tie their hands with politically correct policies.  Now someone will say, "well the Generals say Donald Trump is wrong".  I've spent some time working for and observing Generals.  They like being Generals, and speaking out is not good for your career.  IMO, we have raised a few generations of military officers who are not leaders.  In the Army, there is a saying "cooperate and graduate", emphaisis on cooperate.  They saw what happened to McCrystal when he voice an opinion.  The military is now as politically correct as the rest of our society.  When I have been to military classes, some General will always speak and say "don't be afraid to be the one to stand up and point out a mistake".  And everyone smiles and knows what happens to those who do.  Read Sun Tsu. Go on-line and find one of the videos of ISIS beheading Westerners.  You'll say, "I don't want to see that", but it is really important that you do.  So you can understand exactly who we are dealing with.  You may be tempted to say "we're the U.S., the guys in the white hats, who set the standard for fair and moral behavior", but I would submit to you that once you watch the video, and see ISIS set the severed head on the body's chest, you may change your mind. 

People say that there are law against targeting innocents, and to that I say, laws can be changed, laws can be suspended when the ocassion calls for it. 

And then there is the case of torture. Once you look at that video, tell me how you feel.  If you are like me, you'll won't give a darn if those people are tortured.  Do we believe that if we don't torture, then our enemy will say "oh well, since they don't do it, we shoudn't do it either"?  Heck no.  They think we are weak.  We talk about bringing them to justice and they laugh at us.  They are ready to die for their cause, so we appear weak while we dither over civil court vs. military boards and do civil laws apply or are they subject to the USMJ?  And if we detain them, then what?  Send them to prison without a trial?  I think Donald Trump is right - why do we care what happens to these people?  They are the enemy.  Instead we worry if the rest of the world thinks we "nice" and just."  We're living in an unjust world.  The world has changed.  If we are the guys in the white hats, we are also the guys in the black hats when it suits our purpose. 

I'll end with one final thought that I saw on FB today:

In WWII, 18 year olds took the beach knowing that death was almost certain. 

In 2016:  18 year olds need a safe place, because words hurt and they need a place to go where no one will hurt their feelings. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You are too modest.....
Date:	3/22/2016 4:23:30 PM

I would say you underestimated your reflections on the Belgium attacks......they are really good reflections.  I think where we are totally missing the boat is understanding what is at work here with Islam.  If you haven't already read The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright you have to get it.  It should be required reading for everyone in government (political or civil service) that has anything to do with our security.  Europe is committing societal suicide by allowing Muslim immigration.  These people adhere to a 6th century belief system that is totally at odds with modernity and civilized behavior.  The percentage of Muslims that believe in Sharia law and the lesser percentage, although still in the hundreds of millions, that believe in jihad should be enough.  

I have little faith that this will be anything more than a bump in the road for the demise of Europe.  They have lost their way, lost their belief in God and are doomed.  And we are not much better off where our current president is doing the wave at a baseball game in Cuba with ruthless dictators and Hillary's first instinct was to warn us not to respond too forcefully to this threat.  Trump and Cruz have both been very good about this issue but as you pointed out in your closing line, I am not sure America is much better off than Europe.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/22/2016 5:33:06 PM

Well said, and spot on.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	OMG, Hound....
Date:	3/22/2016 6:44:52 PM

finally we agree.  Your post, from military politics, to European stupidity, to muslim danger are absolutely correct.  Success in the Army as an officer depends on playing politics, brown nosing, and never making waves.  I think o-BAMA has deleted all officers in all branches except the ball-less slugs that play his tune.  This ain't gonna play out well.

Name:	Old Diver -	Reply
Subject:	History Repeats Itself
Date:	3/22/2016 7:02:53 PM

Back in the 30's Stalin purged almost all of his experienced Army officers. He paid a terrible price for it when the Germans attacked. And now we....... 

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/22/2016 7:20:18 PM

Amen. Well said and spot on.

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	History Repeats Itself
Date:	3/22/2016 7:25:51 PM (updated 3/22/2016 7:26:44 PM)

@ Hound         Agree with all but the torture.  It has been proven that torture reveals little facts one can use.

As a nation of decent people, we should reject the notion.

Maybe the reason radical muslims are vengeful is the blowback from us over there blasting away at hundreds of thousands of

people including women and children.

@ Old Diver @ Wix          Yes,  Barry has gotten rid of anyone in the military that disagrees with him.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Did FEB steal 'Hounds password....
Date:	3/22/2016 8:02:07 PM (updated 3/22/2016 8:02:50 PM)

The more I think about it, maybe FEB hijacked her site....   Bet half on the site doesn't even know about FEB!

Name:	HARRY -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/22/2016 8:20:45 PM

Agree with all and I wish that all of the uninformed voters in this country could read this and ponder on it.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	History Repeats Itself
Date:	3/22/2016 8:25:47 PM

I never said that I thought it nets us anything, but I'm an eye for an eye, kind of person.  I just said I don't care if they are tortured.  Did you go online and look at the beheading video?  I had to force myself to watch it.  But once I did, I don't care what we do to these people. 

and I don't think the terrorist attacks are retribution for collateral damage.  I have been told, the only things the terrorists want is publicity, body count and to create fear and uncertainty. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Did FEB steal 'Hounds password....
Date:	3/22/2016 8:27:44 PM

I manage to have my own opinions, thank you very much.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/22/2016 8:32:04 PM

they are too busy worrying if eveyone thinks the US is "nice".  They believe in the "diplomatic solution".  A good friend of mine, who is a dyed in the wool liberal and has a PhD in European History, just tried to convince me that we just need to keep doing what we are doing and every thing wil be okay. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	And Hodja
Date:	3/22/2016 8:36:01 PM

Please do not accuse me of not liking or supporting the military.  I care enough about them that I hate to see them sent off to die with no chance of winning.  I'm just waiting for someone  to say that if we build ISIS roads and school and give them understanding, they'll embrace us and understand we mean them no harm.  Or some brilliant mind in the State Department will think we can solve this by throwing money at it and negotiate our way to peace.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	It's just that....
Date:	3/22/2016 9:39:32 PM

those opinions have done a 180 in the past 6 months.  Congratulations!

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	And Hodja
Date:	3/22/2016 10:06:49 PM

Since I have been on the forum I have noticed an edge to your posts about officers...but not enlisted...and having lived the Air Force life and twice lived on Army installations...and spent three years with the OJCS, flying with the National Airborne Command Post and living side by side with other service officers, I can understand.  I have noticed a real element, to differing degrees, of careerism in the military, and frankly some forget why they are there in the first place.  Careerism occurs at differing levels, among the different services, period.  You may not have realized it, but your disdain for those "career first" and "I am the best thing since sliced bread" officers has crept into your posts on occasion over the years.  Just my observations.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Hodja, my personal
Date:	3/22/2016 11:17:22 PM (updated 3/22/2016 11:28:57 PM)

Experience.  Accepted Regular Commission with career plans, but after observing the personal integrity sacrifices necessary to climb up the ladder, I decided against a career.  Gave them four years, bailed, and never regretted my decision.  Interestingly, I have several friends here that are retired career service guys (mostly 0-6s) and I detect their willingness to make those sacrifices....and I still don't like it......just me.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hodja, my personal
Date:	3/23/2016 7:04:19 AM

Fortunately my experience was pretty much the opposite.  I entered OTS upon graduation from college, received my Reserve commission, and fully intended to do four years and re-enter civilian life.  I was lucky to have some great bosses along the way and at about the eight year mark received a Regular commission.  As I said in a previous post there is careerism, and indeed some who were hiding behind the door when the ethics were being passed out, but I wasn't subjected to working with them, but just the opposite, had the pleasure of working alongside and for some class individuals and true patriots.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	It's just that....
Date:	3/23/2016 9:58:17 AM

No, I haven't changed. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	And Hodja
Date:	3/23/2016 10:21:35 AM

Most of my experience with the uniformed military has been with Army, Air Force, lesser Marines and Navy.  Earlier in my career, most of the career Military I worked with were Army Officers that had served in Viet Nam and they had one set of attitudes (speaking very broadly, of course).  As I moved from that environment to DC and the Pentagon, and time moved on, I encountered a different attitude (again, speaking very broadly) - more of a "I'm going to change the world" attitude.  Now I have met miliary who didn't like or respect civilians, and they could be quite distainful -but in my personal experience, once they found out that I was as dedicated to the mission as they were, and would work as many hours as it took to get the job done, they changed their attitude - at least towards me. 

But I wonder if the shift in attitude accounts for coming from an actual war time experience to a more theoretical military experience.  I found those with actual war experience (Viet Nam, mostly) to be more down to earth, dealing with reality.  A lot of them had been drafted, and then decided to make the military a career.  Later, these were all volunteers, war was a theoretical exercise and they had a lot more time to worry about their personal career.  Or it may just be because they were in the Pentagon with a lot more exposure to Generals and higher ranks people and they found it a heady experience.   I know the first time I ever went into the Chief of Staff of the Army's office, I was overwhelmed, thinking of who had sat in that office and decisions that had been made there. 

But I have never felt distain for the military on the whole. Individuals have sometimes disappointed me, and the attitudes of some of the most senior miliatary have shocked and disappointed me, but someof my very best work friends have worn the uniform.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/23/2016 4:44:20 PM

A couple of thoughts on this…   first of all, it’s the most complicated circumstances I can imagine and I  don’t have any simple suggestions to make it all right.   Far from it, I think we are going to have to live with this for a long time to come and the best advice comes to this:  if we don’t know what to do, let’s just try not to do anything that will make it worse.   And I think it’s clear we don’t know what to do in this huge mess that combines geopolitics with economics and a religious war that has been going on now for about a thousand years between Shia and Sunni Muslims.

I am extremely cautious about being sucked into escalations of all this by calls to increase the bombing and raining hell down on everyone in the region.  I assume that most of the people in the Middle East are like the farmers in the rice paddies of Viet Nam.   They care nothing about the politics of the government, and only about whether they will live long enough to feed and raise their children.   And I think that up to now, our military efforts have simply led us deeper into a quagmire.   Unlike WWII, where we believed ourselves to be liberators….   This notion has been applied and rejected in the Middle East today.

Your reaction to videos like this is understandable, as is the urge to strike back just as hard and forcefully as vengeance requires.   But I’m thinking that this is the response that the video was intended to create, that it is scripted to achieve a level of revulsion that will prompt us to retaliate in kind.   I think the strategy of Islamic Jihadists is to suck us into an ever increasing war of attrition that will only increase the alienation of the Islamic world and give more people cause to hate us.  Before we make a decision about how we will react to it, I think we should ask this:   what does ISIS want our response to this to be?  What are they trying to get us to do?   I think we should carefully consider that question, and be sure that we don’t do exactly what they wish… escalate, retaliate, bring on more military missions with catchy titles like ‘shock and awe’.   If we do that, we are probably assisting the grand strategy of the Islamic Jihad by bringing more believers into a war with the Great Satan. 

As best we can, we need to leave this war to the Sunni and the Shittes  until they realign themselves into whatever they wish to become.   The Christian West cannot determine the outcome of their religious war any more than Arab Sultans could have intervened to stop the Christian Reformation in Europe. 

I am against sanctioning torture as an operational policy of the United States military or Intelligence services.   Embracing it, I think, would have consequences beyond what we see now.   As with so many precedent setting events, we could simply cross that moral line and convince ourselves to view it as casually as we have accepted targeted assassinations anywhere over the globe using aerial drones.

After all, what is torture and where does it stop?   Did the grunts who took suspected Viet Cong up in helicopters, throwing one out the door while telling the others to cooperate … engage in torture?  If we can torture a suspected Islamic radical for information, should we also use the technique on his family members to get him to crack?

Yes, ISIS is a bitter & harsh enemy, undeterred by any of our notions of decency or morality.   And yes, where there is war, there has always been torture & brutality.   But officially embracing the methods of our enemy isn’t going to win this war… it will supply the enemy with more history to condemn us by. 

Finally, the idea of stopping immigration across borders strikes me as pretty problematic and likely to create unintended consequences.  How, for instance, does someone answer the questions at the border?  What is your religion?   Can you prove that you are a believer in an acceptable religion and reassure officials that you are telling the truth?  What if you don’t have a religion?   Are you going to be suspected of hiding something?   There isn’t a stamp on my passport for religious affiliation, and I wouldn’t want one.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Dear Leader's solution
Date:	3/23/2016 5:04:02 PM

"But we defeat them in part by saying you are not strong, you are weak. We send a message to those who might be inspired by them to say you are not going to change our values of liberty and openness and the respect of all people. And I mentioned at the baseball game yesterday, one of my proudest moments as president was watching Boston respond after the Boston marathon attack."  BO in Argentina

This is the thinking of a four year old child.........utterly amazing and incomprensible.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/23/2016 5:50:26 PM (updated 3/23/2016 5:52:23 PM)

I understand your pacifist leanings, but think you may be misunderstanding what we are up against.  If we take your approach, it will just be a matter of time before we are being forced to bow to the East and subject to Sharia law.  You cannot reason with unreasonable people.  We are engaged in World War III but most either don't realize it or don't accept it.  

The only thing that will work against this threat is strength and the will to use it.  Copper, once again you can't reason with unreasonable people, nor can you rationalize a response based on your frame of reference.  We are in a new world order, like it or not (I don't), and the sooner we address its consequences and take strong action, the less we will have to suffer as a nation and society.

Copper, the world is full of evil people.  I had rather we address this element sooner than later.  How many innocents have to die before you understand that the only thing they understand and the only thing that will deter them is the destruction of their center of power and knowing that we will do whatever we need to preserve our society and way of life?  I wish we had the luxury of addressing the issue as you suggest.  I don't think we do.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/23/2016 6:01:03 PM

 I have to agree with Hodja.  And in order to win, you have to break the will of the enemy to fight.  They will not respect our weakness. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Dear Leader's solution
Date:	3/23/2016 6:02:34 PM

It is "wishing it were true" thinking. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Dear Leader's solution
Date:	3/23/2016 10:15:21 PM

It's the old saying that a frog wishes he had wings so he wouldn't bump his butt.  OK for a 4 year old but kind of humiliating for a grown man.  And what is even worse is how many on the left believe it is acceptable for the president to think like a toddler.  I am waiting for hi to whine that it just isn't fair......no wonder he cheats at golf. 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/24/2016 9:19:35 AM

I hear what you guys are saying, but that’s not the only way to look at it.   I wouldn’t characterize what is going on as WW3 because doing so inflates the importance of Islamic radicals well beyond what they deserve.      That said, they can and will do much harm in Europe…. but terrorist attacks over here are more likely to be felt thru ‘lone wolves’ who are less well trained and coordinated.    Lone wolves are certainly dangerous, but they are not an existential threat to the US.    Terror cells in Europe during the 70’s were setting off bombs but didn’t bring down the world order… though at the time, there were certainly people who thought that it would.

The world is full of evil people, I agree.   Our best hope is not to become part of that evil by making emotional decisions that pull us further into this quagmire.   I tend to be more than a little cautious about our mindset as a nation… are we inflating the threat posed by ISIS with our own rhetoric?  After all, we invaded Iraq by following faulty information about the true threat level and talked ourselves into believing we would be hailed as hero-liberators.   We bombed Libya’s government into oblivion without enough thought to the subsequent impact on that region.    Now we are again building toward another action, but we really don’t know where the target is.   It really troubles me that we might even consider massive attacks on population centers in the Middle East.   This is a war with an unconventional enemy.   They have no navy, no missile systems, no air force, and the equipment they obtained from our previous efforts to arm the Iraqi army will wear out quickly.  What they do have is lots of people who can still be radicalized.

I do have strong pacifist leanings, but mainly I am concerned about how we talk ourselves into taking actions that we later regret, or that we may be seduced by our anger & revulsion into taking steps that result in exactly the opposite of what we hope to accomplish.   When you don’t know how to solve a problem, you just have to focus on avoiding things that make it worse.   

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/24/2016 9:31:02 AM (updated 3/24/2016 9:35:54 AM)

But it is not like we are trying to decide to engage or not - we are already there.  I agree there should be a certain amount of cautionwhen you are deciding whether you should engage initially.  But my feeling is that once you are engaged, then you should fight to win, and not hamstring ourselves.  The thing is this - ISIS does not love us and they will not love us no matter what we do - so we should engage decisively and win and get out. If not, we should just stop now.  A war like this, left to drag on, will bankrupt our country.  it's costing us billions - billions that could be better used for other things. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/24/2016 2:37:47 PM

Should the three who neutralized the attacker on the French train not have taken action because one of them might suffer a knife wound? If they handn't risked themselves, how many might have been killed?

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/24/2016 5:39:10 PM

Yes, they did and I hope that I would have enough courage to have done the same.  But isn't that different than ordering a military strike on a target in total, or even partial disregard for noncombatants?   At what point in a conflict does that become justifiable?   What are our decision parameters?. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/24/2016 9:05:49 PM

I would love for the threat to disappear.  I would love to live in a nation free from a threat like the terrorists pose.  But if it is us or them I choose us.  What might have happened in past occurrences like this are no predictor of what will happen now if the threat goes unchallenged.  The world has and continues to change, and has grown much smaller.  Yesterday France, today Belgium, tomorrow ?.  I would choose to not have "USA" substituted for the question mark.

Copper, the longer this threat goes unchallenged the harder it will be to check when we do challenge it.  We must go after the source of their power.  True, economic disruptions like destroying their ability to turn oil into cash are important.  Making them pay a dear price for their incursions into our right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness must happen.  

And all of our counterterrorism bullets need to be coated in bacon grease.  A Muslim rendered impure through contact with any kind of pork forfeits his seven, seventeen, or seventy virgins (however many it is).

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/25/2016 11:02:30 AM

I am 100% in favor of defeating ISIS.   You raise a good point, we should focus on their source of power... but exactly what is this?  Is it a city?   An entire region?  A religious philosophy or the social/economic conditions of that part of the world?  

At this point in this thread, I feel like we are chasing our tails.   We could debate a strategy, but no one has articulated one that is clearly defined and likely to have some success.   The idea of coating bullets with pigs blood is pretty far out in my mind, but it does raise an pretty interesting idea:   It would be great if we could find a way to use their own religious mythology to undermine the determination of their fighters.  

Multiple news reports in recent days describe the retreat of ISIS in Syria & Iraq, examples being reported of ISIS fighters melting away quickly when under attack & in retreat.    They haven't mounted an offensive in months.  Mosul & Palmyra are close to being recaptured, Raqqa (sp?) encircled.     Recent Brussels attack appears to be carried out by fighters who returned from the war zone and perhaps avenging the military set backs in that region.   Another interesting point is that these bombers may not all be highly motivated religious zealots who adhere to belief in Islamic purity, but street level criminals with less religious motivation.   Some of the bombers decided to save themselves and escape rather than commit suicide.   Maybe this is a change in terrorist profiles we should pay attention to.

If their collective religious zealotry were to be diminished (after all, suicidal fighters have a really limited shelf-life, so to speak)... and ISIS has to recruit fighters more interested in self-preservation & loot rather than some mythical glory in the afterlife... I think we can more easily defeat that kind of enemy.    For now, that is a big IF.... but one I will pay attention to.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Reflections on the Belgium attacks
Date:	3/25/2016 7:22:25 PM

Indeed, no one has come forward with a strategy, and that is a big reason why this president is such a miserable failure.

I don't know if the bacon grease/pigs blood method has any merit in fact, but it makes a nice story.

My wife and I are returning to Alabama tomorrow via commercial airline.  Washington National Airport may well be a zoo.  I just hope the animals don't start yelling Allaha Akbar.