Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Who to believe...SLOTUS or the Mullahs
Date:	4/6/2015 8:52:08 AM

Given his track record I am guessing Iran is telling the truth about the deal...or the framework of a deal.....or the agreeemnt to make a framework of a deal....or whatever this is.  I would make a list of all of dear leader's lies but I don't have the time.  WHen Iran lights up the Middle East with nukes we can all look back and thank Obama for accomplishing what others have failed to do, the destruction of Israel and the murder of more Jews than WWII.  Amazing how far we have fallen that the frogs have more cajones than our leader and Lurch.

Name:	h_hob -	Reply
Subject:	Who to believe...SLOTUS or the Mullahs
Date:	4/6/2015 10:18:41 AM

Apparently many people in the U.S. are waking up to the "Pretender in Chief."  I was listening to FOX News this morning and more and more states are pushing for "open carry" and a U.S. wide reciprocity for concealed carry.  I'm leaning toward the reason for this is more and more people are beginning to distrust the "Pretender in Chief."  I also agree with you about the Iranians are to be more trusted with telling the truth than the "Pretender in Chief."

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Who to believe...SLOTUS or the Mullahs
Date:	4/6/2015 11:39:37 AM

If Iran decides to light up the MIddle East with Nukes, they will do so whether there is a frameowrk agreement in place or not.  They will just make the decision and do it.  Same as Russia, North Korea, Pakistan, India or any of the other nuclear nations.  And it won't have a thing to do with Obama. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Who to believe...SLOTUS or the Mullahs
Date:	4/6/2015 12:46:48 PM

Hound, you are a little off the topic here.  The question is whether you believe what the leaders of Iran are saying about the agreement (which is that it will allow them to develop nuclear weapons) or Obama.  But in response to your point.....

I agree that their decision will have nothing to do with Obama.  But if he does a deal with them that allows them to legally have nukes at the end of the 10-year period then he does have culpability does he not if they use them against Israel which they have often and consistently stated they will?  While the details are still being kept secret (hence the difference of opinion between Obama and Iran on the details) enough has been leaked to lead one to believe that this is the case.  As an example, if you have someone that has told you repeatedly that when they get a gun they are going to shoot their neighbor and you facilitate them getting a gun you indeed have culpability when they go and shoot their neighbor.

If however, he remains firm in preventing them from getting nukes, asks for and gets crushing sanctions if they continue to pursue their nuclear program and assuming they continue to violate non-proliferation agreements he agrees to whatever additional action the international community takes then he can clearly state that he did all he could short of war to prevent it from happening.  Chamberlin made this mistake and Obama is doing it again.  There is a reason the details of this agreement are being kept secret, even from Congress.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Who to believe...SLOTUS or the Mullahs
Date:	4/6/2015 10:01:28 PM

They will get nukes, agreement or not. There isn't anything we can do about it.  Even if we bombed them, it would only slow them down, not stop them.  I personally don't think they intend to bomb Israel.  I personally think they say these thing to see Israel get it's knicker in a knot.  I'm a bit cynical because I spent about 11 years hearing that Iran was going to destroy Israel, yet nothing has been done.  They don't need nuckes to destroy Israel. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Back to your original question
Date:	4/6/2015 11:34:12 PM

Both sides are telling the truth as they see it; or they are playing the press.  Without seeing the agreement, who knows? 

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Back to your original question
Date:	4/7/2015 12:11:52 AM

"Without seeing the agreement, who knows? "  MM knows cause Limbaugh called and told him. If Limbaugh says it MM believes it.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	So what is in the agreement GF?
Date:	4/7/2015 8:53:25 AM

Have you seen it?  I know Congress hasn't and even a number of Dems are questioning it.  Where is the text of the agreement? Prove me wrong if you can.......which of course you cannot because it is still secret, hence either Obama or the Mullahs are lying.  I think we both know who is the bigger liar.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Back to your original question
Date:	4/7/2015 8:57:12 AM

Well I guess that's that.  If they do nuke Israel, which I believe they will if they can, all those in favor of this agreement can shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh well, its just a few million Jews.  Nobody likes them anyway".  Truly amazing.  

I do believe we could prevent them from getting nukes if we and the international community had the will.  They likely don't and the end result could be catastrophic.  But hey, its no big deal.  Wow........

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	2 facts for MM (Maybe somebody will pass along)
Date:	4/7/2015 10:01:41 PM (updated 4/7/2015 10:21:41 PM)

Iran may or may not get the bomb...Israel HAS the bomb.

I know that His Arrogance MM will not read this but hopefully someone will explain the math to him...he says in his post something to the effect that Iran is about to kill more Jews than Hitler.  Hitler, born a Roman Catholic, murdered 6 to 7 million Jews and another 5 to 6  million gays, Jehovah's Witnesses, political dissidents, Gypses, mentally retarded, allied POW's, etc.  If Iran bombs Israel (before Isreal bombs Iran) and kills the entire population of the Jewish state the total casualties will be about half Hitler's and 30% will be Arabs who are overwhelmingly Muslim.  Hard things to think about but if MM is going to think and post about them and ask others to think about them and accept his talking points guided reasoning he needs to have his facts correct...something he typically has little or no concern about.

Now. will MM please begin a campaign to reintroduce the draft which will mean rich N Fulton and Cobb County sons and daughters will be going to fight Iran which will be needed to implement his alternative to a diplomatic solution which Obama (+ Cameron + Hollande + Merkel + dare l say it, Putin and + whoever is currently head honsho in China) are attempting to bring about.  I say let MM lead the first wave!!

MM's posts are becoming more and more hateful  and more and more off the wall the longer Obama is president.  He will be a complete  blithering idiot by the time Hillery finishes her 2d term!!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Back to your original question
Date:	4/7/2015 10:08:32 PM

MM, when I was wearing my Washington Hat (9 years ago), I was frequently in meetings with Israeli officials.  Even then they were obsessed with Iran. I went to Israel a couple of time, and heard the same rhetoric that you are now hearing.  So here we are many years later, and the Israelis are obsessed with Iran, still. This was during the GWB Administration.  I never saw any U.S. Senior Officials do muc more than listen politely and change the subject.   Rationally, don't you think that if Iran wanted to attack Israel that they would have done it?  I personally believe that the Iranians enjoy pulling the chain of Israel, knowing they will whine and scream that much more.  They don't need nukes to destroy Israel - but they don't need to do anything because the Israelis scream anyway.  Iran is not going to attack Israel because they know that it will mean that the U.S. will defend Israel and attack Iran. And Iran doesn't want war with us, despite what the more radical Mullahs say.  And we do not want war with Iran, because we currently have too much on our plate and we don't need the entire Middle East in a blow up.  The situation in Yemen is far more dangerous.  Saudi is on edge becasue there is much there much  at stake for them. 

I guess I'm much less alarmed by what they say publicly, than what is being said privately.  One thing about the Middle East is that what appears to be going on, may or may not be true.  They all play the media very effectively, but it isn't always the truth because appearances have to be maintained.  And I'm not terribly concerned about framework agreements.  That is what they are - a framework for future discussions  It' s more symbolic than anything else.

The Republicans are using this to create fear.   What they really fear is Hiliary Clinton in 2016. 

Name:	h_hob -	Reply
Subject:	2 facts for MM (Maybe somebody will pass along)
Date:	4/7/2015 10:44:53 PM

And your posts say just that for MM.  Maybe you will someday see that by looking in a mirror.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	2 facts for MM (Maybe somebody will pass along)
Date:	4/8/2015 10:53:20 AM

Let me guess, he insulted my intellgence, called me names, spouted nonsense and generally made a fool of himself.  You see, that's why I don't read Archie's posts.  I already know what he is going to post.  All I need to do is remove half my brain and I could write them for him.  

Back to commenting on other people's jokes Archibald.......

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	More reasons not to make a deal with Iran
Date:	4/8/2015 12:40:31 PM

Everyone should fear Hillary given her absymal record of failures and her scandalous actions.  But ready the attached and you will see why this agreement is such an abject joke.  And this is from Iran's own news agency.  There is only one use for these cetrifuges.  But I suppose like their death to America and death to Israel comments, they don't really mean this do they?  As for me, I take them at their word and they

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940118000331

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	More reasons not to make a deal with Iran
Date:	4/8/2015 3:38:35 PM

Then you are going to spend a lot of time needlessly worrying.  My observation about what they say and what they do are often two very different things.  They play the media, just like everyone else.

Yes, Centrifuges are a critical part of making a nuclear bomb, but it is more than just having the parts and the equipment.  It's not very easy. 

I stick with my original comment - The right wingers are busy creating a rumor that there is some imminent crisis with Iran becasue they want to put fear into Americans, because they believe that will cause Americans to vote Republican.  I don't think it will work, because I think that Americans are weary of war.  We can't go around bullying other countries and starting wars.  It hasn't work well for us in the past, and it is not working very well for us now.  All you have to do is look at Iraq and Afghanistan.  If you bomb Iran, then you need to be prepared to put boots on the ground and an occupying force.  Oh, and BTW, don't expect Russia and China to stand idlely by while we do this.  No matter how you slice it MM, it's a bad idea.  It will bankrupt our country to boot.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	More
Date:	4/8/2015 3:56:02 PM

I read the article, and the first thing that sprung at me was it is quoting this MP and that MP.  Well, do you believe everything that comes out of the mouths of Congressman?  Without knowing what their political leanings are, their words may or may not reflect what is being said.  Secondly, we are allowing Iran the opportunity to use the centrifuges to advance their nuclear power objectives.  The article speaks to that.  I didn't see anywhere in there, where it said they were making bombs.  Also, have you forgotten that Iran currently has the most rational government than they have in decades? 

Stop worrying.  You can be sure that intelligence sources in a lot of countries (not just Israel) will be watching what is going on.  And I suspect that there will be multinational inspections.  And we can impose sanctions again. That is what brought them to the table.  2

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	More
Date:	4/8/2015 5:39:56 PM

So tell me oh wise one, if they aren't planning/making  nuclear bombs why are they manufacturing heavy water?  Heavy water has no role in nuclear power but you can't make nuclear bombs without it.  My guess is that is where Isreal  will strike.  It is not easy to produce but will shut down their program.  Of course they can always just buy it from somewhere else with the windfall they are about to receive from selling oil.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	More
Date:	4/8/2015 5:45:37 PM

I would bet you another dinner on this but you are already going to owe me one on Hillary.    Besides, this is far too important and consequences far too grave.  Time will tell and I hope you are right.  But if you're not Obama will be joining Chamberlin in infamy.  But given the opposition of a number of Dems in Congress it probably won't be an agreement with the US anyway and if Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have their way it may not happen at all.  

Regardless, I still believe the mullahs and not dear leader on what the secret agreement actually is.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	MY 2 CENTS
Date:	4/8/2015 6:00:34 PM

I can't believe I am actually reading this stuff between Archie and MM. This is an open Forum. MM, I am surprised you have allowed Archie to control you to the point that you ignore him. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	You believe the Mullahs?
Date:	4/8/2015 9:26:36 PM

Why in the heck would you believe them?  Personally, I don't have any strong feelings about the agreement one way or the other.   Maybe I'm just cynical.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	You believe the Mullahs?
Date:	4/8/2015 10:34:50 PM

It appears to be a relative thing....relative to the words coming out of the individual twice elected - God only knows why - to the presidency of the USA, the words of the mullahs may be closer to being accurate.  We have an anti-American president.  Plain and simple. I hope the yahoos who elected him begin to realize the grand charade that has been foisted upon us.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	You believe the Mullahs?
Date:	4/9/2015 8:43:46 AM

I don't think he is Anti-American. He clearly has a different perspective from you, but that doesn't make him anti-American.   Negotiating a framework agreement doesn't make him unAmerican.  We had nuclear framwork agreements with Russia too and everyone thought that was a great thing.  But the article that MM referenced wasn't quoting Mullahs, it was quoting Members of Parliment. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You betcha
Date:	4/9/2015 8:47:07 AM

Sadly yes, I believe their version of the agreement over what Obama is saying. Maybe if he didn't keep it secret from the American people and Congress we wouldnt be in this position to believe a bunch of murderous Islamofascists over dear leader.  But as we have seen over and over again, he is the most paranoid and secretive president since Nixon (and likely worse).  And he is a documented serial liar.  Put those facts together and his version cannot be trusted.

By the way, did you see our Valley Girl State Dept spokeswoman demeaning the president and his ability to communicate?  What a bunch of rank amateurs.  Would be funny if it weren't so serious.  The incompetence parade continues until January 2017.....unless Hillary wins in which case it will continue for another four years.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Not worth even that
Date:	4/9/2015 8:50:49 AM

There is no between here.  I live rent free in Archie's mind as he slavishly reads everything I post and then begs others to tell me what he wrote.  It's kind of sad and pathetic but I have to admit a certain naughty pleasure in driving him to distraction.  As I said, if I removed half my brain I could post for him but I hate doctors so I will hold onto my intellectual superiority and continue to use facts, logic and reason as opposed to emotion and delusion.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You believe the Mullahs?
Date:	4/9/2015 9:04:00 AM

Said members were restating what they were told, which by the way is consistent with everything the Mullahs have said on a regular basis.  I know you don't believe they will do what they have repeatedly said they will do and I hope you are right because millions of lives are at stake.  Is it worth taking the risk that they are just joshing around?  Maybe from the comfort of Lake Martin or Atlanta. Not so much if you are in Tel Aviv.  Heck, even the Saudis and Pakistanis take them at their word.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	The French govt says Iran is right
Date:	4/9/2015 12:33:09 PM

They agree with the talking points put out by Iran and not those put out by Obama.  Maybe they too are just playing to their internal politics, but somehow I doubt it.  Face it Hound, whether you believe the Mullahs or not there is almost no reason to believe Obama's version particularly given it was written by a known, congenital liar Ben Rhodes.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Actually
Date:	4/9/2015 7:05:16 PM

I don't pay too much attention to what is being said about this agreement.  I may be cynical, but if it like most framework agreements, it probably contains a lot of modifiers and isn't that important in the overall scheme of world events.  I suspect the agreement will end up being reviewed, but perhaps not voted on by Congress.  There are many agreements in place in which they have not been reviewed or voted on by Congress.  I don't see this as much difference. 

MM, have you ever been to Tel Aviv?  I have, several times.  More people are worried about the lone attacker who will decide to bomb the bus ahead of their car, when they are taking their kids to school in the morning, than Iran bombing them.  I think I previously pointed out that if Iran wants to attack Tel Aviv, they have the capability to do it now - they don't need nukes.  Tel Aviv could also attack Iran.  I would put more of a bet on Israel attacking Iran than the other way around.  And Israel has nukes as well.  The only thing that keeps Israel from attacking Iran is the U.S. (and not just this Administration). 

Remember when Bush 43 made his speech about axis of evil?  Ever wonder why these countries have nuclear programs?  Look back to that speech when the leader of the remaining Super Power (with nukes) calls you out as part of the axis of evil.  You develop a defensive program to keep from being attacked, especially when that Super Power has already demonstrated its willingness to act aggressively against other countries.  And that  Super Power supported Iraq in the Inran/Iraq war. 

And by the way, France did not participate in the sanctions against Iran because they have close business ties to Iran.

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	Actually
Date:	4/9/2015 8:30:10 PM

What is your real experience on the ground in Israel?? I mean experience outside a transport from the airport to somewhere diplomatically or militarily photographic. Specifics please because I have been there too, and not in an armored car to the hotel.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Actually
Date:	4/9/2015 9:17:53 PM (updated 4/9/2015 9:40:00 PM)

I realize you would like to paint me as an obtuse government representative, "on tour" and protected from what you see as the "reality" of Israel.  I have no need to explain to you why I was in Israel, what I did when I was there, or who I talked to.  Suffice to say that I believe I have a handle on Israel, both at the political and the military level.  I've been out and about in Tel Aviv as well as other parts of the country.  Met more than a few veterans of the Israeli/Egyptian wars.  it's not like it is vast country. 

I have my opinions on Israel and Iran based on conversations, and other information.  I've seen Israel manipulate the media.  I've seen the Israeli lobby in action -- know some of those people too. 

But I'm not an expert.  But perhaps you are. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Actually
Date:	4/9/2015 9:48:12 PM

Well all I can tell you is that France's fact sheet about the nature of the agreement agrees with the Iranians. Would everyone lie about what is in the agreement and only Obama is telling the truth?  I suppose it's possible but then again flying pigs are also theoretically possible but no one has ever seen one.  Say what you will, but if this was such a good deal it would not be kept secret from the American people or Congress. It's moot anyway as it appears the Iranians are doing what they can to make dear leader,and Lurch look like the fools they are.  I guess they assume given the premature victory speech by TOTUS that they will now agree to anything Iran wants to save face. Obama and Neville Chamberlin.....two peas in a pod......and millions of lives hang in the balance. But maybe you are right and it's all for show.  Time will tell.......but if you and Obama are wrong.......

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Actually
Date:	4/9/2015 11:13:20 PM

No, I don't believe in vast conspiracies.  And obviously the Administration is going to put a positive spin on it because it is their initiative.  And the Mullahs are going to put their spin on it, because they are still thinking "death to America" because we are infidels.  France?  Who the heck knows what they are thinking.  They have their own problems. 

Hopefully at some point when the agreement is finalized they will publish it and we can all read it and see what we think.  I told you, I am a cynic.  I can't worry about how to save Israel... I have plants to tend to and nice weather to enjoy.  I doubt they will nuke Lake Martin.  And if they nuke Washington, will we really have lost anything?

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Actually
Date:	4/9/2015 11:18:51 PM

Yes, Cafe Divan.  A wonderful Turkish restaurant.

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	Even more conjecture
Date:	4/10/2015 6:31:42 AM

http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=52cfc9a00101369223de44ea1&id=3410de5cc6&e=f71119c1ee

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Actually
Date:	4/10/2015 9:31:16 AM

There are a couple of good cigar bars as well.....as for the rest.....meh....