Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/25/2015 11:43:46 AM

Good ole Amer Express raising card rates 2-2.5%; reaffirms my decision to never have their card--#love cash

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/25/2015 4:04:50 PM

If you pay each bill in full, what difference does it make?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/25/2015 4:25:23 PM (updated 2/25/2015 4:26:14 PM)

Hound, even if you pay the full amount it costs you a lot.  Vendors that accept AMEX pay a perecentage of every dollar charged which I can assure you they pass onto the customer in the form or higher product prices.  AMEX is especially brutal which is why a lot of vendors won't take them or want to charge a "convenience" fee, especially for large purchases.  So even if you pay your bill in full each month as I do you still get hit with the cost of using a credit card, AMEX being the worst of the lot.

Notice you were AWOL from the forum for a while.  Was beginning to wonder about you.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/25/2015 5:23:58 PM

We traded five guys from the Food Forum and got her back!   But this time it was a fair trade.

Name:	Summer Lover -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/25/2015 6:35:51 PM

It has been about 30 years since I was in a small business and had the pleasure of dealing with the credit card "benefits".  From what I recall, unlike the other two credit card service providers, AMEX charged more - maybe 5.0% vs. 3.5 %, and had to be paid from AMEX directly - could not go in the deposits...  I always wondered why someone would pay to have a personal American Express card – maybe $50 – 55 / year for a green card (CC not worker documents), and $120 / year for a gold card…

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/25/2015 7:23:24 PM

I have a"Rewards" card from one Credit Union  and a checking account in another that pays interest.  I just charge everything to the rewards card, getting points that I then trade for Visa gift cards AND get interest on the money lying dormant in my checking account. Then at the end of the month I pay the full balance shown on the Rewards Visa statement.  Don't pay any interest and get paid interest.  I keep wondering if I will wake up some day and realize it is too good to be true.  Have about $400 worth of gift cards stashed away, waiting for a good reason to use them (they paid our entire Hilton bill for a vacation visit we took to Savannaha few months ago).

I see no reason to try to keep my corporate Amex card (I recently retired from that company) when there are much better options available.

Name:	HARRY -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/25/2015 9:11:59 PM

And the vendors that accepted your rewards card paid extra fees on your purchases so you could have your "free" vacation.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/25/2015 10:37:41 PM

I fully understand that and did from the beginning.  No regrets.  If I didn't take advantage of it others would and the prices would go up anyway.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/26/2015 5:43:19 AM

So we paid for your vacation and you did not even bring us a T-shirt.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	FREE IS GOOD
Date:	2/26/2015 8:52:30 AM (updated 2/26/2015 8:54:55 AM)

So the RIGHT suddenly likes FREE. I like my FREE EBT card and my FREE phone. Now, explain how do FREE rewards that we all pay for through higher prices differ from an EBT card that is also paid by all in higher taxes? Oh, I forgot....If not me than someone else. 

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Goof wizard
Date:	2/26/2015 10:16:22 AM

There's a difference between a free market decision to offer customers benefits to increase company business, and o-BAMA's dimokraps giving away benefits to buy votes that all working (key word) people have to pay for thru taxes.  Goof, this message is directed only to you.....everyone else already knows it.

BTW, the best credit card deal I've seen and use is the Sam's Club MC Card.  It pays 5% rebate on just about all gas purchases, 3% on all restaurants, and 1% on every purchase.  Not bad...

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/26/2015 10:22:57 AM

Don't pay an annual fee for any of my credit cards.  I get "cash back" rewards on both AmEx and Mastercard.  Since my last milestone birthday, I've decided to stop worrying about certain things like how an increase in AmEX's rates will be passed onto the customer.  Yes, I realize this is the case and it sucks but it's always been this way and forever more shall it remain.  AMEX is about to lose its relationship with Costco, so they are probably having to raise their rates to compensate. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Goof wizard
Date:	2/26/2015 11:02:40 AM

Mine is through the Pentagon Credit Union and is very similar. 5% gas, 3% grocery stores, and 1% eveything else.  Plus I get 2% APR on the money sitting in my checking account waiting to be applied to the monthly CC bill.  Its a no brainer. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Really on AMEX and Costco?
Date:	2/26/2015 11:15:29 AM

Had not heard that but it will be worse for AMEX than Costco.  Sorry to hear that as I pay for everything at Costco with my AMEX for the Delta sky miles points.  

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Credit cards
Date:	2/26/2015 12:25:20 PM

MM you are right about AMEX and their discount rate to retailers.  When last I was dealing with them my MC/Visa was at about 2% while AMEX was 4.5%.  Anytime I got to working off a close margin I would ask the method of payment they planned to use.  Some times I might be as low as 10-12% margin in order to close a larger sale and AMEX would take nearly half of it.  In some instances I would even ask cutomers to write a check instead of using plastic due to the cost of taking credit cards.  Most folks don't realize that processors also charge a 'transaction fee' to the retailer that could be anywhere from 5-25 cents each time they swipe a card plus the discount rate.  On top of that the industry also charges retailers as mcuh as they can get away with for a 'statement fee'.  I have seen that fee anywhere from $5-25 per card per month.  A fee for simply mailing a statement!! Now it is usually email also.  They really stick to small and medium size retailers because they have them by the gonads.  They don't have enough clout to negotiate good rates but absolutely must take plastic in todays world.

Just last week I advised an aquaintence to drop her acceptnace of CC's.  She has a small but successful resteraunt that seves lunch and breakfast buffet only.  She has priced the buffett at $10 tax and drink included.  I told her to put in an ATM for folks that dont carry cash.  Wtih and ATM they will actually pay her for each transaction.  Last year she paid over 10K if fees for taking plastic.

Then there is one of my pet peeves, the 'conveience fee'.  NEVER pay one.  It is illegal for the retailer to charge.  Only government and quasi-governmental agencies are allowed by law to do so.  Although I really feel the pain of the retailers if folks refuse to pay the fee in big enough numbers it will make the industry fight harder for fair practices. It is legal to set a 'minimum purchase' to use plastic but not to pass their fees onto the consumer.  These laws are passed under the guise of consumer protection.  Just another way the government really puts the screws to small business.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Hodgie
Date:	2/26/2015 1:48:04 PM

"Plus I get 2% APR on the money sitting in my checking account waiting to be applied to the monthly CC bill."  Check again, I think your tiered checking account is paying closer to 0.20% and not 2.00%. On a $1,000 balance I believe you are receiving $2.00 per year interest.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Yes, it is true
Date:	2/26/2015 1:55:42 PM

Costco and AMEX are ending their 16 year relationship next year.  Understandstand COSTCO is talking to Chase about Mastercard. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	And
Date:	2/26/2015 1:57:11 PM

I believe that is the reason that AMEX is likely raising their rates.  They had a really bad day the day it was announced.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Yes, it is true
Date:	2/26/2015 2:40:26 PM

Yeah I looked it up.  Can you believe that Costco sales are over $110B and I am willing to bet a lot of that revenue went to AMEX.  I read that the Costco AMEX card accounts for $140B in revenue to AMEX which is mind boggling.  No wonder their stock dropped when it was announced.  I can tell you not being able to use an AMEX at Costco will not change how much I spend there so the big loss is theirs.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Hodgie
Date:	2/26/2015 2:42:16 PM

Wrong.  2% annually means 1/6% (0.01666) on a monthly basis.  That is more like a buck seventy per thousand, and that is what is being added to my checking account every month.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Yes, it is true REALLY???????
Date:	2/26/2015 3:52:42 PM

"Yeah I looked it up.  Can you believe that Costco sales are over $110B and I am willing to bet a lot of that revenue went to AMEX.  I read that the Costco AMEX card accounts for $140B in revenue to AMEX which is mind boggling."

How did 2014 Costco sales of $110B result in $140B of revenue to AMEX?  Did you look it up on FOX or a reliable souce?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Dumb question....but I asked it too
Date:	2/26/2015 4:06:30 PM (updated 2/26/2015 4:08:19 PM)

LOL GF.  I had the same question when I first read it so at least I know I am not alone.  The doh! moment occurred when I realized that the people with Costco AMEX cards use them at other places and not just Costco.  Makes you wonder what will happen with those Costco AMEX cards and how many will drop AMEX altogether.  

Would also be interesting to know how much of Costco's sales are with Costco AMEX cards.  My AMEX cards are not the Costco version but I always use them when I go there.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Dumb question....but I asked it too
Date:	2/26/2015 4:40:15 PM

The definition of revenue is interesting. For 2013, AMEX shows total revenue of $32.9B including $18B of discount and card fee revenue. They earned $5B for the year. The $140B must be total monies collected for charges to the card and not really revenue. It is the loss of the discount and card fee that matters.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Dumb question....but I asked it too
Date:	2/26/2015 4:50:44 PM

In 2014 over $268B were charged on AMEX cards worldwide so $32.9B in revenue means they take in 12% of total charges in revenue which to me seems  high but given what they charge for fees and interest it probably makes sense.  I am surprised that the Costco AMEX card represents over half of their total charges and am a little dubious.  I agree that they will miss the fees and interest more than the revenue stream.  

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	GOOF Wizard
Date:	2/26/2015 6:26:28 PM

AMEX's revenue from a card issued thru COSTCO does not limit the use to Costco only, wizard...therefore, customers use to buy stuff everywhere; thus, increasing AMEX's revenue.  Duh.

BTW, the real hook for Costco/AMEX has been that the AMEX annual fee was included in the COSTCO annual fee of $55.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Wizard Wix and Martini Mix Perfect Together
Date:	2/26/2015 6:54:10 PM

The point is that the total revenue that AMEX collected from card discounts for 2013 is $18 Billion.  That total is for ALL of their cards...not just Costco. The $140 Billion from Costco cardholders is NOT revenue but simply money they collected as a billing agent. From that, they deduct their 2-3% around $3.5 of the $18 Billion.

I use my  EBT for food and my credit card for all other items when I shop. The best of both worlds.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Goof Head
Date:	2/27/2015 1:26:37 PM

I do understand the "card sales, revenue, profit margin concept" since I worked in the real world.

BTW, you should take lessons from your coharts and use your EBT (welfare debit card) to buy crack, meth, gas, cigarettes, and LOVE (sex)!!!

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Goof Head
Date:	2/27/2015 3:22:50 PM

"BTW, you should take lessons from your coharts and use your EBT (welfare debit card) to buy crack, meth, gas, cigarettes, and LOVE (sex)!!!"

Why do you think I need lessons???  Give me alittle credit.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Goof Head
Date:	2/27/2015 3:36:07 PM

You don't need an EBT card to practice the kind of self love that will make you go blind GF.......