Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Uh oh!
Date:	11/20/2019 8:56:19 AM

Sondland's opening statement has just been released.  MM and CRD you ain't Gona like it!

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Uh oh!
Date:	11/20/2019 9:22:52 AM

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6554291/Opening-Statement-of-Ambassador-Gordon-D.pdf

Not sure we are reading this the same, you are reading it with your trump hating glasses.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Uh oh!
Date:	11/20/2019 9:50:14 AM

I read the entire opening statement and find that there is something there for just about everyone.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Uh oh!
Date:	11/20/2019 10:50:12 AM

Have not read it.  Does he have verifiable proof that a high crime was committed or is this his personal opinion statement?

Did he say that Biden was guilty of much more, but since he is running for office, he is immune from prosecution?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Which Sondman do you believe?
Date:	11/20/2019 1:33:13 PM (updated 11/20/2019 2:13:51 PM)

The one that stated unequivocally that Trump told him no quid pro quo or the one that belatedly now assumes the investigation of Burisma was at the direction of Trump with zero evidence other than what he read in the papers?  So we have a veritable litany of witnesses that exonerate Trump, we have Sondland in his own words exonerating Trump and then we have Sondland throwing pretty much everyone under the bus based on his opinion.......sorry Archie, but one guy's belated opinion in the face of the actual words of the President himself to Sondland is where the truth lies.

And note that Sondman conveniently ommitted the crucial discussion with Trump from his opening statement.  When asked about why he left it out of his 23-page opening statement is that he "didn't have room for it".  This statement alone convinces me to believe the guy who relayed what the President told him......23 pages and he couldn't fit the actual words of the President but was able to fit in all his opinion and speculation about what the President was thinking......come on Dems, surely you can do better than this.  And this from a guy who admitted he did not take notes.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Another reason they got nothing
Date:	11/20/2019 3:15:34 PM

Just look at all the fake news out there about Trump quoting Sondland about no quid pro quo and claiming Ken Starr said it was over.  Both abject lies that get around the world before the truth even gets up in the morning.  On the former, Trump correctly quotes Sondland and the AP headline is Trump Contradicts Him.....when in fact he correctly quoted him.  Retweets of the original 7,000......retweets of the note removing the tweet 400.  Even a cnnBS Never Trumper called out AP for this lie.  That's how this works folks and why we know its all a charade.  As for Ken Starr, he quotes what Pencil Neck is saying and the media attributes that quote to him.  And he was very clear that he was quoting Schitthead....followed by his statement that it wasn't going to happen in the Senate.

Like Archie making stuff up below, if they really had something and knew it they wouldn't have to lie about it.  They got nothing.  And they know it.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Notice the silence
Date:	11/20/2019 4:05:35 PM

Archie got all orgasmic over the opening statement and then the actual testimony quite literally blew it out of the water.  So now we get silence....no crowing about Trump must resign.....no claims they will convict in the Senate.....nothing.  They got their clickbait, the govt media got their short lived headlines......then the questioning began and it all fell apart.  On three occasions Sondland stated that Trump specifically told him no quid pro quo, wants nothing from Ukraine except to do the right thing......it all fell apart but they got their moment in the sun and Sondland maybe gets the Democrat congressman harassing his wife's businesses to back off.  Witness intimidation? Extortion?  Nah.....only Trump can do that without actually asking for or getting anything in return.....  In essence his subsequent testimony completely undermined his opening statement and corroborated Trump's claims....including many questions from Dems..to the point they needed to harass him.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Notice the silence
Date:	11/20/2019 4:46:19 PM

Maybe he went whistling?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Notice the silence
Date:	11/20/2019 5:07:52 PM

I suspect he doesn't want reality to invade his short-lived happy feelings.  Let him enjoy the moment because it won't last as the truth is eventually working it's way into the media.  Sadly it takes a lot more time and effort, especially to reach the low information headline readers who never delve into the details that don't support the headline or ever read the subsequent retractions.  So I expect a short-lived bump in approval for impeachment but it won't last as the quotes from Sondland's actual testimony get disseminated.  Congressman Turner raked him over the coals, and rightly so, for the media firestorm and Pencil Neck's hasty presser to claim he had the goods on Trump.  They all know that it would not withstand even a modest amount of inquiry as we have seen.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Is Sondland acting
Date:	11/20/2019 5:44:29 PM

Or is he naturally scattered?  He is purposely not include in his opening Trumps "I want nothing"

was he baiting the media to declare bribery before he blew them out of the water?  Lol.  This is a guy who gave $1 million to Trumps campaign.  Lol.   You can't make this stuff up!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Bottom Line per Sondland
Date:	11/20/2019 11:26:04 PM (updated 11/20/2019 11:37:59 PM)

there was a quid pro quo and Donald Trump was calling the shots. 

As I said below, MM you are grasping at straws.  You were right in 2016 in your assessment of Donald Trump.  Unfortunately you, like others have drunk the Kool Aide and party over the constitution and the country...sad for the nation, so sad.

I do not call for and never have called for Trump to resign nor do I want or expect him to be convicted in the senate thanks to the gutless wonders that make up the Republican caucus.  I want and expect the American people in their righteous anger to throw his sorry azz out in 2020. I also expect the US Marines will have to remove the SOB from the White House kicking and screaming while his well armed nutcase base screams obscenities!! 

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Again MM
Date:	11/20/2019 11:43:53 PM

why do you believe Trump never lies and believe every single other person that says otherwise, whether witnesses and accessories to his Ukraine adventures or the women who say he molested them, never tells the truth?

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Bottom Line per Sondland
Date:	11/21/2019 7:59:49 AM

You mean similar to the righteous anger exhibited by voters in WISONSIN who, in recent polling, now have Trump beating every Dem candidate on the slate?

US citizens are now seeing, thanks to Schiff and this circus, the true colors of a Washington bloated, slimy bureaucracy and Dem hypocrisy.  You are happy to work hard and send your money overseas to corrupt entities and have it come back in politician's pockets.  I am not.  Good for Trump looking out for my hard earned money and requiring, as the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty states, cooperation with governments to root out financial and other forms of corruption that exist prior to receiving aid.  If you have a problem with that, as far as I am concerned, YOU have drunk the kool-aid in toxic doses.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Wow, a military coup
Date:	11/21/2019 8:08:52 AM

Will the army battle the Marines and Air Force over head and the Navy by water?  General Biden leading in the wrong direction.  CNN will get advanced notice and drones with cameras.  Hey, I think I've seen this movie!

too much fun here.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Except that's not what he said
Date:	11/21/2019 8:16:22 AM

Do I need to provide you with the quote?  All he did was guess what was driving the investigation push based on what he read.  But the quote blows your fantasy out of the water.  It must be really hard to be you Archie.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Again Archie
Date:	11/21/2019 8:37:20 AM

Of course Trump lies.....he is a politician and they all lie, none more than Clinton and Obama.  But I do know this, Trump claimed he never colluded with Russia despite dozens of leftist Democrats claiming otherwise and we now all know who was the liar.  So on issues like this I will believe Trump.  And I will also believe all the witnesses who answered no to the questions about bribery, extortion and quid pro quo.  Go look it up Archie, every single one of them said no to that question.  All the rest is smoke and mirrors and immaterial.  No quid, no quo, no bribery, no extortion.  And that is the answer until someone can provide proof....which of course can't happen because there was no investigation of Bidens and Burisma, there was no announcement of an investigation, there was an offer for a visit, the funding was provided and Ukraine and all the other witnesses said there was no pressure on them to investigate......but otherwise you got himdead to rights for wanting to make sure Ukraine dealt with corruption in order to get our hard earned money.....imagine the gall, not wanting our money to end up in Swiss bank accounts of cleptocrats.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Uh oh Archie....just one of many Q&A's
Date:	11/21/2019 9:46:25 AM (updated 11/21/2019 10:30:26 AM)

This is the guy Archie thinks put the nail in Trump's coffin......HAHAHAHAHAHA  From his lips to your deranged eyes Archie....

During the five minutes he had to question Sondland, Turner focused on whether Sondland could name anyone who had told him that Trump had tied aid to Ukraine to these investigations.

“So, no one told you. Not just the president?” Turner said to Sondland during today’s hearing in the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

“Giuliani didn’t tell you? Mulvaney didn’t tell you? Nobody?” said Turner. “Pompeo didn’t tell you? Nobody else on this planet told you that Donald Trump was tying aid to these investigations? Is that correct?”

“I think I already testified to that,” said Sondland.

“No answer the question: Is it correct?” said Turner.  “No one on this planet told you that Donald Trump was tying this aid to the investigation?” Turner persisted. “Because if your answer is ‘yes’ then the chairman’s wrong and the headline on CNN is wrong. No one on this planet told you that President Trump was tying aid to investigations? Yes or no?”

“Yes,” said Sondland.

“So, you really have no testimony that ties President Trump to a scheme to withhold aid from Ukraine in exchange for these investigations?” asked Turner.

“Other than my own presumption,” said Sondland.

“Which is nothing,” said Turner.

And then there is this text exchange that occurred in real time during the events in question.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	And with that Archie goes AWOL
Date:	11/22/2019 3:05:26 PM

Funny how facts that fly in the face of a good fantasy are all it takes.  Archie, you should have remained silent.  

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	I give up on you MM
Date:	11/22/2019 3:57:02 PM (updated 11/22/2019 4:02:43 PM)

You are so biased that you hear only what you want to hear without any relationship to what in fact was said!  I'm sure you do not agree and make the same accusation of me, but in the hearings I listened to EVERY SINGLE WITNESS in the end agreed that in fact a quid pro quo was at least understood by ALL parties involved.   If you never heard it form a single witness you were perhaps listening but obviously not hearing.  As further proof of your and your fellow traveler's hear things differently, one need only to compare your stated opinion of the words of Schiff and Nunez.

Tell me, if your hero is so concerned with fighting corruption in other nations allied with us, when will he announce we are going to cut the 4 billion in aid we send to Israel every year?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	is that the same obviously reliable poll
Date:	11/22/2019 4:11:03 PM

That shows Booker beating Trump?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Excellent news!
Date:	11/22/2019 7:01:44 PM

I gave up on you a long time ago.  I use facts, logic and reason from answers to direct question and you rely on the feelings and opinions of partisan hacks in their opening statements that wither under cross examination.  No help for that.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Archie
Date:	11/22/2019 9:51:43 PM

Not a single witness said "Donald Trump told ME that there would be no aid if the Ukrainians didn't investigate the Bidens".  Nothing but assumptions and presumptions.  Maybe the witnesses WANTED it to be true. That doesn't make it true. 

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	is that the same obviously reliable poll
Date:	11/23/2019 11:00:12 AM

Don't know.  Marquette University Law School Poll.  Check for yourself.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Archie
Date:	11/23/2019 11:02:40 AM

Assumptions and presumptions in Archie's world are synonomous with fact when addressing anything Trump.

Name:	krtracker -	Reply
Subject:	I give up on you ARCH
Date:	11/23/2019 12:14:30 PM (updated 11/23/2019 12:16:28 PM)

sounds to me that you love the party that wants..... free healthcare for illegal immigrants,  allow anyone without question to come live in america,  willing to spend trillions of bucks to make sure we dont have farting cattle adding to greenhouse problem,  allow all immigrants to attend college on taxpayers dime, (ie mexican girl graduates from USC free of charge and waving mexico flag on stage while accepting diploma),  granting drivers license to illegal immigrants, allow abortions on third term babies,  turn blind eye to any illegal offense by the party  you worship, remove the second admendment of constitution, give african americans free bucks for our fore fathers poor judgement  100 years ago,  wipe out christianity,  not allow free speech on college campus (unless its socialist speech), dont believe in capitalism, allow illegal immigrants so many barriers to employment that they qualify for never ending gov. funds, believe that there is no sexual gender, (therefore pronouns he, she, male, female cannot be used), allow homeless drug addicts to take over big city streets because they have that right, refuse to cooperate with federal gov. directives ( not allowing ICE arrests ), giving every man, woman and child 1000.00 bucks every month just cause, getting rid of electoral college, think the constitution needs rewriting, wipe clean all american historyof events because it may offend people ...... l could go on and on but have made myself DEPRESSED AND QUESTIONING MY LIFE AS A CAPITALIST, WORKING ALL MY LIFE TO OWN HOME, PAYING MY HEALTH INS. BELIEVING IN CHRIST, SAYING MERRY CHRISTMAS, TEACHING MY KIDS WHAT AN AMAZING COUNTRY AMERICA IS. I AM SO GLAD I NO LONGER TEACH. I DONT THINK I COULD EXPLAIN WHAT  IS HAPPENING TO OUR COUNTRY TO KIDS.