Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/30/2018 2:38:26 PM

According to the Mercatus Center at GWU, Bernie and his millennial socialist acolyte suggestion of Medicare for all would cost $32 trillion over 10 years.  Now let's imagine a candidate for national office suggesting we raise taxes by that amount over 10 years.  Not gonna happen because it is political suicide.  The rich don't have that much income so it would entail either a massive tax increase on the middle class and working poor or a tremendous increase in the national debt.  So which is it Socialists?  Let's get on the record here which you prefer.  Either way it's a huge problem for the Dems as they lurch to the left toward full on socialism.  Whether that appeals to the average voter remains to be seen.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/30/2018 4:08:03 PM

Dems are already talking about a 50+% tax rate.

“Well, it’s not about the number,” Warren said in response to a question about the corporate tax rate. “Here’s how I look at budgets and taxes are at the heart of this. A lot of people think they’re just numbers. They’re not. They are the expression of our values. The values of the Republican Party that passed those tax cuts are to give $1.5 trillion away to the richest Americans and the biggest corporations, and let everybody else pick up the crumbs.”

When Harwood asked if a 50 percent tax rate on the country’s top earners would be “obviously too high,” Warren reiterated: “It’s not about a number. That’s what negotiations are all about. That’s why you sit down and you negotiate over the numbers.”

She noted, however, that the rate for top earners historically has been as high at 90 percent.

Imagine working to give 50-90 cents on the dollar to the government.  GFY would be in heaven.

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/30/2018 8:13:03 PM

The healthcare system is broken. The election of 2016 was pivotal. The current president was elected in part on his campaign promise to repeal and replace. So far neither. This was a significant issue for me in the election - I have worked in the field for many years. And we still have a crisis - don’t favor either extreme but clearly we as a country have to do something. I’m still waiting. 

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/30/2018 8:42:27 PM

What do you think is the best move?

Name:	Casey -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/30/2018 8:43:21 PM (updated 7/30/2018 8:48:34 PM)

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/07/30/koch-funded-hit-piece-backfires-shows-medicare-all-would-save-300-billion-over-ten

https://thinkprogress.org/mercatis-medicare-for-all-study-0a8681353316/

There you have it!

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/30/2018 9:08:01 PM

The gubment will receive 3.4 Trillion bucks in tax revenue in 2018, so your wizards are proposing doubling everyone's taxes just so we can pay for all the freeloading dimokraps.....no thanks to you, GOOF-IDIOT, ARCH-COMMIE, and the ultimate....BERNIE-IDIOT.

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/30/2018 9:16:13 PM

What is your solution Wix?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/30/2018 9:19:07 PM

I asked you first.  Jest bitchin’ won't get it dun.  Gimme your details...

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/30/2018 9:25:12 PM

OK, let’s try this. Since you are a strong right wing guy, how is it your folks ran on a platform to address and haven’t delivered. Let’s leave your personal solution out of it. We have a crisis. I sure do t favor single pay or, and I don’t have much room for tort reform - unless reasonably structured. Insurance companies and drug companies are making the money not the delivery system. So, since the current admin doesn’t want to limit buxbess in any way, we have to focus on where the crazy costs are. 

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/30/2018 9:31:48 PM

All I told my friends/ family is 3016 is that the system is broken and someone needs to come up with a plan. So far, nothing. Costs are continuing to rise. And it’s not the affordable care act - I’m one of the minority who has read every page. That’s not an escape hatch here especially since nothing has been proposed in its place. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/30/2018 11:08:17 PM

I'm not sure that Medicare/medicaid for all is the answer.  As it is, it can be hard to find or change Drs. if you are on either program, because the system is slow to pay Drs., and doesn't pay going costs.  So you still have to have a supplemental plan to make sure that you won't have to go bankrupt.  We are losing Drs, because they can't pay their student loans at the rates that Medicare pays.  

I agree the health care system is broken - Obamacare left people with high deductibles that they can't pay.  

I think tort reform is good, I think standardizing the costs that hospitals can charge  might be the way to go - perhaps regionally. It's crazy to me  that I can have an MRI in one place for one cost and go have the same MRI at another place for a different cost.   I think the drug companies should be subject to audit on their costs.  I think a lot could be done to fix healthcare without resorting to a single payer.  Because I have a feeling even a single payer would still require you have supplemental insurance.  

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/30/2018 11:39:01 PM

The answers are fairly simple, if you open your mind.  Everything the gubment has become involved in has been a boondoggle for private enterprise for a very simple reason.  Private industry is so much smarter than gubment so called experts that gubment is always the loser.  If you go back to the 50s-60s to the Hillman Act which funded all the building of small hospitals in small communities you will learn that shortly thereafter, congress dictated that those hospitals HAD to see all patients who showed up at their door...whether they could pay or not.  The wizards in congress didn't provide any reimbursement to those hospitals....they just had to absorb the additional costs....which meant higher prices to those who could pay.  That was the beginning....now we have that problem times 100, due to the stupidity of liberal congress and judges.  

When my first child was born the hospital bill was less than $350.00 total....no insurance.  What would that cost today?  How much of that cost is unnecessary CYA for hospitals and doctors. Modern society has created the medical industry mess because people are not allowed to pass away in diginity....gotts save 'em.  Go back to the free health care at small hospital ERs and you see cost shifting then and it has just grown over the years and is now the liberal way of life.

The Constitution does not guarantee anyone free healthcare, nor illegals, no one.  Pay your own way or do without healthcare.....it worked up until the 50s.  A free market without gubment stupidity and the cost of healthcare would be much more reasonable.

You've got to open your mind and accept the truth.  Liberals don't have a clue.

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/31/2018 6:52:02 AM (updated 7/31/2018 6:59:32 AM)

Free care even if eliminated wont begin to solve the issue. You have zero understanding of how hospitals run. You said just bitchin wont get it done. I agree. Talk about needing to open your mind. Finger pointing wont solve this. And I’m still waiting for your response to why the current admin and congress have failed to tske any steps to address this issue. 

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/31/2018 6:52:50 AM

Once again, Hound, a reasoned response to a very complex issue that impacts us all. 

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/31/2018 8:34:19 AM

First, I must correct one thing.....the law quoted is the Hill-Burton Act not Hillman....senior moment.  As usual with liberals, you have, so far, refused to post your “plan”.  Suggest you go to dnc.com and find out what you're allowed to say.  Also, it is obvious your vast experience exceeds my 30+ years in the healthcare industry, so share with us.  Yes, healthcare is in a mess....as a direct result of many stupid laws and directives from the gubment.  Yes, profiteering occurs in healthcare....because the gubment is stupid and inefficient.  Now, tell us your plan.....

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/31/2018 9:16:54 AM

Here is an interesting situation:  https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/07/string_of_patient_deaths_promp.html

Know what DRG's are?  Wanna know why your loved ones are sent home from hospital too early, many times.  Read up.

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/31/2018 9:22:41 AM

Hyperbole and name calling seem to be your standard. We both have 30+ years experience in healthcare, mine all in large delivery networks. I’m very familiar with the operations side. Your DNC comment fell flat - I voted for Trump in 2016 and hoped he and a friendly congress would actually do something to help fix the system. So far, zip. Total failure on that issue. 

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/31/2018 9:33:13 AM

OK, so what is your plan?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/31/2018 9:43:32 AM

$350 will get your bloodpressure taken now.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	CASEY-IDIOT
Date:	7/31/2018 9:55:28 AM

The reason Congress has not passed health care reform is that Republicans vote their conscience and Democrats vote as a monolith, where individual members are not allowed to do the same.  I'd be willing to bet there are Dems who would have voted for the reform had they not been threatened or at least feel the threat that they would lose whatever assignments and/or perks they have by doing so.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Nope, Free BP, if......
Date:	7/31/2018 10:01:52 AM

you go to the ER at 10:00 PM and speak Spanish.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/31/2018 10:48:10 AM

There is a list of 29 countries you are free to "migrate" to.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/31/2018 10:48:29 AM

need to have hip replacement-had extensive x-rays; but to relieve pain until the surgery can be schudeled, we agreed to a simple epidural in DR office $200.00)--insurance required , at a cost of $3500.00 an MRI just for the epidural--im really scared what they will want to approve the actual surgery ; health insurance is akin to the Montgomery Public School system , which Mayor Emery Folmar, in 1995,  told me it was totally broken, & beyond repair --ever

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Let's separate the cost and quality of care
Date:	7/31/2018 10:48:40 AM

First of all, I am glad this post generated the discussion it did because once intelligent people see the actual cost of Medicare for all they begin to think twice about the folly of universal health insurance run by the government.  However, I think you need to separate the healthcare system itself from the mechanism for paying for it because they are two very different issues.  The fact of the matter is that the U.S. has the finest healthcare system in the world.  In terms of access and quality of care we are the gold standard and there's a reason why people come here from all over the world to be treated.  And there's a reason U.S. hospitals on the Canadian border have billboards in Canada advertsing that they acccept the Loonie.  Need a hip replacement?  Tough luck in Canada or the UK or pretty much any other universal health care country.  You wait six months or longer and if you are too old they just say no.  Same with a stent or bypass surgery.  Come to the U.S. and you are on the table in a matter of days....unless you are on Medicare/Medicaid/VA.....you know, the ones run by the government.

The issue we have in this country is the system for paying for our medical care.  That is, third party payers, be they insurance companies or the government, separate the consumer from the direct cost of their health care.  When you separate the consumer from the cost impacts, prices always go up beyond what they should (just look at the rise in college prices versus the rest of the economy).  I suggest you look at the cost of Lasik or CT scans, neither of which are covered by insurance.  Both of these are paid with cash and both have not only dropped in price but have greatly improved in quality because of that ugly capitalist idea, competition.  So in my view and broadly speaking, until we get the consumer closer to their health care buying decisions costs will continue to spiral, especially given all the distortions in the market caused by Obamacare.

Universal healthcare run by the government in other countries all have two things in common, rationing (lack of doctors, nurses, hospitals, bloated, inffective govt departments, etc.) and inordinately high income tax rates that stifle their economies.  Had Obama decided to tackle the real issues we faced instead of the monstrosity they foisted on us we would all be better off.  The biggest issues are how to deal with preexisting conditions, portability and providing an option for those that could not get insurance but actually wanted it (as opposed to mandating it for those that don't).  Instead we got a stupid, destructive law that is driving insurance costs out of this world.  Exactly what we predicted would happen because the govt does nothing well. 

There are also a number of other reforms that on the margins would help with the cost side of the equation.  Tort reform would help drive down costs because doctors would be less inclined to practice defensive medicine.  I can tell you as one who has an HSA account, when our doctor wants to do some tests we always quiz them as to why because we pay for them directly.  Once we hear their explanation we then decide whether to have the tests done and we often decline because they are unnecessary.  It would also be nice if we could buy healthcare insurance the way we buy all our other insurance products but that is a lot more complex change than it would appear.  But having a requirement for carriers to limit their reach due to state regulations limits competition. We see that in our business where there are only a handful of markets that can insure our employees across the country, which means less competition for our business and higher prices.  Were that barrier removed we might see more competition and lower prices for insurance.

As for drug companies, I am torn about what to do with the cost of prescriptions.  On the one hand, the prices we pay fund R&D and to the extent we artificially depress drug prices one area where they will cut costs to maintain profits is R&D (at least that's what drug companies claim although they could probably cut other costs to maintain profits but that would likely involve people losing jobs).  Again, my view is that competition will solve some of these problems but the fact is that drug companies try to recoup the cost to develop new drugs with higher prices, especially the exotic ones.  So I think the concept of artificial price controls is a bad one because it stifles innovation and competition.  But maybe there's a solution out there that would help mitigate costs for those that need but cannot afford the really pricey drugs.  That may be an area where effective legislation could help if done right (which would be a miracle given past history).

At the end of the day a majority of Americans do not want to double the federal budget and those left wingers that want to tell us how other countries do it (despite all the problems) is not very compelling.  But we shall see if the U.S. wants to follow socialist countries down this rathole where the govt takes half your income, unemployment norms are 10% or higher and your healthcare decisions are made by unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats.  If they do then we will eventually understand why the U.S. was once the world's greatest economy but we pissed it all away with ideas that have never worked and will never work.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/31/2018 11:32:05 AM

As someone who has been in the trenches of modern healthcare for close to three decades, let me respectfully  state that our healthcare system IS NOT BROKEN.  We have stellar academic institutions that continue to train the best and brightest of our younger generation in not only medicine, but also in the allied health sciences; so much so that foreign applicants continue to inundate our selection committees because the quality of training is so much superior and comprehensive to that of the rest of the world.  Advances in technology, such as robotics and newer materials follow these institutions, resulting in cutting edge treatment of modern day maladays that not long ago, were very inefficiently treated with mediocre results.  Perusal through various specialty journals will reveal a continued zest for research, that I will say, is also fueled by foreign innovation.  One cannot compare the periodic inefficiency of modern medicine with the inefficiency of fortune 500 conglomerates because the measures of success are so vastly different.  

The price associated with the delivery of this high quality product to consumers is certainly alarming.  Equally alarming is the involvement of politics into the discussion.  Why is it that a Certificate of Need is required to build a hospital?  I say bring on the competition.  Efficient healthcare entities will force down the price of healthcare if given the chance.  Competition in the insurance marketplace follows the same logic.  The nieve and uninformed will continue to believe those like Bernie, Hillary, Ocasio-Cortez, Pelosi, Schumer who advocate for a single magic bullet that will address healthcares inefficiencies, but know damn well that what I have said here is accurate.  

We can agree to disagree, but I know that many of you (including me) are enjoying the beauty of LM to this day due to this healthcare system that is "broken".  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Assuming they would let him in
Date:	7/31/2018 11:37:11 AM

I find it funny that left wing nuts keep extolling the virtues of these socialist utopias but never seem to want to move there.  They think that just because other countries have goen astray that we should as well.  I've been in a good number of those countries and I can tell you I have no desire to live in any of them.  There is a reason millions clamor to get to the U.S. and only a small number of Americans move to those countries and stay.  And the only way many of them pay for their socialism is through massive migration from Muslim countries and the U.S. paying for their national defense.  If they had to pay their own way and had to rely on their own birthrates each and every one of them would have collapsed by now.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Let's separate the cost and quality of care
Date:	7/31/2018 11:39:29 AM

Amen MM.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Assuming they would let him in
Date:	7/31/2018 12:58:53 PM (updated 7/31/2018 1:00:14 PM)

You and CRD have provided an interesting and revealing summation of the medical situation as we know it today. It is shameful that our Congress and those like Bernie, Ocasio-Cortez, and numerous others don't have a "clue" about what it would take to provide the medical care they propose. The socialistic changes that we are seeing in our colleges and universities are creating young graduates with the ""mindset" that they are entitled to a free college education and free medical care,etc.. What does it take for anyone with an "ounce" of common sense to understand that anything worth having must be paid for by someone? As one of the "deplorables" visiting my local Walmart yesterday I asked a lady in the "cookie" isle next to me how many ways can you make "graham crackers"?  You see I love my snack of graham crackers, peanut butter, and milk. Walmarts "Great Value" brand is $1.24 a box and Nabisco's is $2.98. The point is that I can buy two boxes of Walmarts "Great Value" brand for $2.48 and have $.50 left over. What a deal! The lady told me that she bought the "Great Value" brand whenever it was available. She also said her 21 year old daughter in Auburn had called her yesterday and complained about how expensive groceries were. Together we said, "welcome to the real world". 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Tax increases to pay for this nonsense
Date:	7/31/2018 1:07:21 PM

Saw an analysis this morning and here is what it would take to pay for this socialist wet dream.  Raise the payroll tax (paid for by workers and employers) by ten percentage points for everyone, impose a brand new 20 percent national VAT/sales tax, and hike income tax rates across the board by ten percentage points.  And that assumed tax rate increase is predicated on somehow magically finding $2T in reduced costs by applying Medicare reimbursement rates across the board, something that will be difficult, if not impossible to implement.  Other estimates are that this would actually add between $4T and $6T in new costs, not reduced costs.

So folks, if you want this kind of taxation in the U.S. (which is eerily similar to European countries) then have at it.  We will have the economic malaise of the Obama years on steroids.  And just so you know, when Sanders was asked about the costs the answer was along the lines of we haven't done a detailed cost analysis but this is in the range of our preliminary estimates.  His millennial acolyte has taken the position that, like, well we need to have corporations and rich people pay their fair share and like, um.....  She should demand a refund of her economics degree from BU.  She got literally ripped off.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Tax increases to pay for this nonsense
Date:	7/31/2018 4:39:33 PM

On top of the fact that we DO NOT have enough money to pay for current government expenses.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Bingo!
Date:	7/31/2018 5:02:05 PM

We are already running huge deficits despite record revenues, even after the most recent tax bill was passed (and most likely because of it as always happens).  And 75% of those expenditures are for entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.  If you had Medicare for all, deficits would increase tremendously and $6.2T of the total $7.2T Federal budget would now be entitlement programs (or 83% of our annual budget).  And these are costs that cannot be touched because of political considerations.  So now our Federal budget is about 21% of annual GDP.  Since GDP will not go up (and would likely go down if we raised taxes to pay for this crazy idea), if we implemented Medicare for all it our Federal budget would repesent almost 38% of GDP.  This is very European, the difference being that they do not pay for their defense against threats like Russia, we do.

As we have seen with states that flirted with the idea of Medicare for all, the costs are simply too high.  The difference is that states only have two sources of funding, taxes and debt.  They realized the absolute folly of this and always step back from the brink.  But not so with the Federal govt.  It can simply print money which of course has all sorts of negative consequences, not the least of which is what it would do to our children and grandchildren.  Just look at countries like Greece and Italy if you want to see the disaster that is.  So its either print money and risk hyperinflation or increase the deficit which at some point the piper must be paid.  The alternative is to abandon this deeply flawed and incredibly stupid idea that only appeals to the economically illiterate and implement sensible reforms, which includes the repeal and replacement of Obamacare.  Whether that can get done in the current political environment is anyone's guess.

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Let's separate the cost and quality of care
Date:	7/31/2018 6:44:53 PM

MM - great post and glad you continued the dialogue. For those who have not yet realized it this is a big darn deal. The ACA, ObamaCare as it’s come to be known, was one solution @ the time. Imperfect sure, but at the time something had to be done and it was. It’s our job - all of us- to improve it. In the litany of disfavored third party pastors I would add Tri care. It too has its limits. 

Our generation has an opportunity to make a difference and avoid going down the path of 50% + tax structures with abysmal healthcare delivery systems and the bad consequences you mentioned. Unfortunately, the issue seems to have moved to the back burner. For now, large systems will continue to lobby through industry groups as appropriate, try to raise awareness, and do their best to control costs so they can continue to hit those 4% margin operating targets (for which you would be fired in any other industry). 

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	7/31/2018 7:28:31 PM

We agree on the besuty of the lake. I have spent time at one of the leading academic medical cemters in the world (MInnesota) and stand by my premise that the system is broken. Light years ahead of the rest of the world as you and MM point out, but we have to be better than we are. 

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Nope, Free BP, if......
Date:	7/31/2018 9:33:30 PM

Ignorant

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Know it all idiot......
Date:	7/31/2018 10:10:43 PM

So what's ignorant about an absolute fact. ......

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Know it all idiot......
Date:	7/31/2018 10:24:02 PM (updated 7/31/2018 10:26:51 PM)

Its not a fact. Its an ignorant, narrow-minded, bigoted opinion from a person not interested in moving the debate forward. 

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Cost of Medicare for all-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Date:	8/1/2018 3:38:53 AM

Abysmal healthcare delivery systems?  Just what does that mean QM?  We have healthcare systems out there that deliver cost effective, efficient, quality healthcare.  Is Mayo one of them?  I don't know, however, these systems WILL and MUST be identified and rewarded by the insurance industry as they become less and less willing to dip into reserves to cover their costs.  Those that don't will fall by the wayside.  Just because a product (in this case, healthcare) has an affordability issue, does not mean it is broken or in a crisis situation in my opinion.  Euphemisms like that encourage reactionary decision making which our elite system has never responded well to.  Also, it must have been an oversight on your part when you failed to include hospitals in your list of those making money off the system.  They have been the silent menace that no one has been willing to talk about.  That is changing as we speak.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Let's separate the cost and quality of care
Date:	8/1/2018 10:11:26 AM

I'm not sure I agree that we were in such a crisis that they had to do something so drastic. Before Obamacare my companies health insurance costs went up around 8% per year, not great but manageable. After Obamacare the average increases jumped to 18% and our last look at the markets the cheapest was 25%. That's when we went to a PEO and now our annual costs are going up around 6%. But the fact of the matter is they had an opportunity to legislate sensible reforms and because they are a bunch of power hungry socialist fools they passed the ACA which everyone who had any sense said it would make things worse, much worse.  And it has as will any solution that entails more govt control of health care. So no, I don't believe there was any crisis that justified Obamacare. They blew it and now the best thing we can do is repeal and replace it with sensible reforms. It is beyond repair. 

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Let's separate the cost and quality of care
Date:	8/1/2018 11:36:41 AM

Typically insurance companies raise rates when they lose money on an account. Was the projected 25% increase based on the losses for your Company? 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I'm glad you asked that question
Date:	8/1/2018 3:50:43 PM

Our loss ratio was slightly lower than the previous two years at the time of renewal.  We were told by our broker that the markets were ramping up for full implementation of Obamacare the two prior years and the last year where we were looking at the 25% increase was the first full year of implementation of Obamacare.  At a CEO meeting I attend every year I heard pretty much everyone our size having the same experience and being told the same reason.  So no, it was not due to any change in our loss ratio.  It was due to Obamacare, period, full stop.  And as we've seen with the exchanges that was just the beginning. 

What puzzles me is the insanity of the left.  When they try something and it doesn't work they never reconsider their position, they just double down and try to throw more money at it.  Just look at our education system or the lost war on poverty.  So Obamacare was a disaster because it is govt run and their answer is Medicare for all?!?!?  Insanity....pure unadulterated insanity.  All in the name of being able to smugly tell each other how compassionate and caring they are and how they mean so well as pretty much everyone else gets screwed over royally.  It's never the results of what they do that guides their thinking, its faux compassion and their so-called good intentions.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Ok, fact denier ...
Date:	8/1/2018 8:16:49 PM

pick the hospital ER of your choice, walk in at 10:00 pm and count the freeloaders waiting to get free healthcare at YOUR expense.  Oh, see how many speak English as their first language.  Report back to The Forum with your info.  If you want to debate pick a subject that is not a known absolute fact.

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Ok, Wix the Bigot
Date:	8/1/2018 9:00:17 PM

You’re a moron. We have ER’s in over 100 hospitals. What you are asserting simply is not true. At best, its geographic. You are a bigot, thats clear. Me a fact denier?  No, you just like fake facts. I’ll check on ER’s in AL, FL, TN and bet I find mostly the base as users 

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Ok, Wix the Bigot
Date:	8/1/2018 9:15:19 PM

My experience with emergency rooms, which is limited, supports Wix and his comments.

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Ok, Wix the Bigot
Date:	8/1/2018 9:19:10 PM

Clearly limited, yes

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD-KRAP
Date:	8/1/2018 10:10:52 PM

Please check all the ERs and be sure to not forget my time factor....I said 10:00 PM, but I'll be generous and say between the hours of 9:00 PM and midnight.  Report back.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Ok, Wix the Bigot
Date:	8/2/2018 12:47:52 AM

I admit my limited visits to emergency rooms. How many times have you been to an emergency room after 9:00 PM from which to draw your conclusion?

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Ok, Wix the Bigot
Date:	8/2/2018 9:07:41 AM

Before 2010, about 150 nights/yr. currently, 2 nights per month, Fri or Sat night. Your bigot buddy’s assertions are simply false - no matter how much he wants them to be true. 5% of the population with no greater than 15% of use in the late night hours. The problem remains low income people of all races and genders using ER for primary care.  

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Let's separate the cost and quality of care
Date:	8/2/2018 11:20:01 PM

I have a question if I may - not intended in the snarky tone that permeates the discussion on this board. If the ACA was so very bad why did the republican congress approve it?  I may be misremembering the justification @ the time. 

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Let's separate the cost and quality of care
Date:	8/3/2018 7:17:06 AM

The Democrat congress passed it. Not a single republican vote was cast in favor and for it. Typical liberal. You believes so much that just isn't so.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Let's separate the cost and quality of care
Date:	8/3/2018 9:58:07 AM

That question displays your absolute ignorance on this subject.

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Let's separate the cost and quality of care
Date:	8/3/2018 10:36:04 AM

This crowd is fun to mess with. So emphatic about so many things you are so wrong about. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Nope, no GOP votes for ACA
Date:	8/3/2018 12:16:27 PM

Actually on this topic they are completely correct.  Not one Republican voted for the ACA.  If you recall the history it is kind of interesting.  At the time it was proposed Democrats had a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and controlled the House (which only needs a majority to pass laws).  Then the lion of the Senate Chappaquidick Ted went to his eternal reward and Scott Brown won his seat.  Knowing that they would lose their filibuster-proof majority they passed the law as written before Brown could be seated (by delaying his swearing in ceremony). 

That's why the ACA doesn't have typical severability language and why if any portion of the law is vacated the whole thing is kaput.  But if you don't believe us by all means look it up.  There was a lot of negative press about no GOP votes in the House and Senate for ACA.  That was because it was going to be a disaster and they didn't want their fingerprints on it.  And judging from the decimation of Dem controlled seats at all levels of government afterward they made the right choice.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD-KRAP
Date:	8/3/2018 2:12:07 PM

And this little ignorance from the world authority on all things healthcare, with 30+ yrs healthcare experience?????

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD-KRAP
Date:	8/3/2018 7:35:23 PM

Ignorant bigot. Stay on the porch if you can’t address my post on ER stats. You don’t have a clue Hanniy doesn’t feed you. 

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	Wix Ignorant Bigot
Date:	8/3/2018 7:38:53 PM

Tell us o wise one about your extensive experience in the emergency department

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD
Date:	8/4/2018 11:09:12 PM

I have health insurance, i didn't have to sit in the ER waiting like you must have done for 150/days/yr!!

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD
Date:	8/5/2018 9:39:27 AM

Q may be a paramedic or possibly an ambulance chaser.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD
Date:	8/5/2018 1:17:34 PM

He mentioned “delivery” as his 30 yr. healthcare experience.  My guess is he either drove the nursing home van, or maybe he worked for central supply hauling goods to ER.

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD
Date:	8/7/2018 10:05:20 PM

God, you’re not only an ignorsnt bigot, you are dense to boot. My sympathies. 

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD
Date:	8/7/2018 10:07:10 PM

Or a physician and hospital administrstor, dipsh!t

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD
Date:	8/7/2018 10:09:39 PM

(Guess you are totally clueless. Provider (healthcare delivery) or payor. I bet you can figure thst one out. Even an ignorant bigot can probably do that

Name:	QuietMan -	Reply
Subject:	LOUD
Date:	8/7/2018 10:10:26 PM

You two are pathetic. Stay on the sidelines.