Name:	RickLake -	Reply
Subject:	Vapor barrier in crawl space
Date:	12/12/2016 9:55:00 AM

I would like to properly install a vapor barrier in my crawl space. I got a price from AFS and it was too high.  Anyone know of another company or a couple of experienced guys that can properly install a vapor barrier?  House is on Little Kowaliga Creek. Thanks

Rick

Name:	Samdog -	Reply
Subject:	Vapor barrier in crawl space
Date:	12/12/2016 3:24:02 PM

Had it done a while back and I don't remember it being too expensive. Swat pest control did mine.

Name:	RickLake -	Reply
Subject:	Vapor barrier in crawl space
Date:	12/12/2016 3:40:09 PM

Thanks!  I just set an appointment with them.  Were you happy with the job?  Did you have anyone else take a look at it?  Do you have any pictures of the finished product?

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Vapor barrier in crawl space
Date:	12/13/2016 12:59:52 PM

SWAT is very reliable & does good work for a reasonable price

Name:	itisd -	Reply
Subject:	Vapor barrier in crawl space
Date:	12/14/2016 9:58:58 AM

It is very easy to do. If you can't crawl around hire a couple of teeagers or yard workers and supervise them. I had one helper and we did 2600 sq ft in 1/2 day. 

Name:	RickLake -	Reply
Subject:	Vapor barrier in crawl space
Date:	12/14/2016 10:42:17 AM

Certainly can't do it by myself and my kids are too young to help.  Did you attach the barrier to the side walls?  Tape all the seams?  From where did you buy your materials?

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Here is what I learned the hard way
Date:	12/14/2016 10:43:56 AM

If you are going to staple or nail the plastic under the joists you must make sure that all HVAC vents/piping is properly sealed to prevent any leakage. If not you have warm and cool air mixing which causes condensation which leads to pooling of moisture which causes way more problems than the vapor barrier alleviates. Also all holes where pipes pass through the floor must be air tight for the same reason. I grew up on a slab house and when I bought my first house it had a crawl space so I insulated with the plastic barrier.  I wished I had left the plastic out of the equation a few years later when I was replacing insulation. The was before mold became homeowner enemy number one too. Looking back I probably should be dead from lung disease. In this zone  the usefulness of a vapor barrier is debatable IMHO especially on older homes crawl spaces. Some recommend simply covering any exposed dirt with plastic on the ground as opposed to hanging it also.

If you hang it make sure it is airtight and inspect it regularly.

Name:	RickLake -	Reply
Subject:	Here is what I learned the hard way
Date:	12/14/2016 5:14:14 PM

I plan to lay on ground and seal off ground as much as I can.  I don't have any insulation on the underside of my flooring.

Name:	itisd -	Reply
Subject:	The way I did it
Date:	12/14/2016 8:27:57 PM

I used 4 mil 12-200 visqueen and doubled it , so 8 mil thick. I lapped each run by two feet and taped with duct tape every lap. Don't run it up the wall. Leave about 9" to 1 foot open around the perimeter. This allows moisture to be vented out of your foundation vents.

Name:	itisd -	Reply
Subject:	The way I did it
Date:	12/14/2016 8:29:40 PM

I used 4 mil 12-200 visqueen and doubled it , so 8 mil thick and laid onto the soil. I lapped each run by two feet and taped with duct tape every lap. Don't run it up the wall. Leave about 9" to 1 foot open around the perimeter. This allows moisture to be vented out of your foundation vents.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Here is what I learned the hard way
Date:	12/14/2016 8:32:14 PM

Wise choice. I don't think taping is necessary if you have enough overlap. Probably 2-3 feet, but taping seams definitely won't hurt. The oversized staples used to hold landscape fabric are good for holding in place.

Name:	John C -	Reply
Subject:	spray foam
Date:	12/15/2016 8:11:21 AM

I just had spray foam done at my house, on the underside and in the attic. huge difference. I took pics and video and will be posting them soon.

Name:	Zman -	Reply
Subject:	spray foam
Date:	12/15/2016 11:05:50 PM

Can't wait to see the pics.

Why so enthusiatic about results?  Less money, more comfort or both or something else?

Standing by

Name:	John C -	Reply
Subject:	spray foam
Date:	12/20/2016 5:00:02 PM

so far I don't have a fair test with the system running, but once I do I will post. Keep in mind my AC is an old package unit that is at least 25 years young. I did get them to spray the ductwork underneath the house. 

The best result I have seen is: before we sprayed on a cold day I went by there. It was like 48 outside and I promise the thermostadt read 46 inside. 

After spraying, I went by on a cold day last week and it made careful note: 39 outside, 51 inside. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	spray foam
Date:	12/20/2016 9:07:50 PM

I have a friend who did spray foam throughout his new house.  Utility bills plummeted and he set up an office in his attic because he could, and still be comfortably cool.  The utility savings is indisputable, but my concern would be the lack of ventilation.  To be healthy a house has to "breathe" and foam has a tendency to seal things.  John C is there a remedy to stale air in a foamed house?

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	spray foam
Date:	12/21/2016 6:41:34 AM

There are a couple of options with foam. You can stay directly on to the ceiling which leaves the attic at outside temp or you can spray onto the bottom of the roof which keeps the attic at basically house temp. Either way you have to provide ventilation.  A Ridge vent or power turbine or a combination of both is still needed.  Also the foam does not go all the way to the point of where eaves meet roof line. They actually make a plastic channel that goes between the roof rafters from the eaves to about half of two thirds up the roof line to allow air passage from the eave vents to the peak vents. This allows air flow through but will maintain Temps comparable to the house if you spray the bottom of the roof and assures the eave vents aren't blocked by foam if spraying o  top of the ceiling. I think every situation is different but it basically comes down to personal choice. If you want to gain some use of the attic under the roof is best. I think directly on the ceiling probably provides greater efficiency.

There is also two types of foam, a closed cell and an open cell and once again specific application usually determines which is best for a particular situation.i am no expert but have done some reading on the subject. You can also order the spray and DIY. It comes in two tanks with a wand and mixes in a chamber in the wand. If you have some courage and basic skills you can save a ton of money o  installation. There are also YouTube videos to show step by step how to do it. It definitely is the best insulation method. A neighbor did an addition a few years ago and foamed the extension but opted to not retrofit the existing structure. Everyone advised to have the fiberglass removed and the entire attic foamed but he went cheap and didn't. Early in the 4first summer he had them back to remove the fiberglass and spray the older structure. There was such a difference in the attic Temps that it was condensing and "raining" in his attic.

As stated I am no expert and strongly advise you do some research before making any decision. There are some folks who are just showing up and sealing everything and not allowing for the house to breath, which is crucial even with foam. Hope this helps.

Name:	John C -	Reply
Subject:	spray foam
Date:	12/21/2016 11:22:41 AM (updated 12/21/2016 11:26:20 AM)

MrHodja, Sorry, I don't have any tips on stale air. I would leave that to the pros because I don't really understand the issue and have heard varying opinions on both sides. I can say in my particular case, all of our windows are the old aluminum kind. When the wind is blowing we can feel it inside, so I am not worried at this point about stale air or the "sick house" thing. If we end up fixing the windows, we would probably get that test (I can't remember the official name of it) but they come and shut all the doors and windows. Then they set up a seal on a particular door and then pressurize with air in order to test how well the home retains the air. It is commonly done in new construction, and then also in energy audit tests.   After I typed all this I googled it, it's a blower door test: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/blower-door-tests

Name:	Maverick -	Reply
Subject:	spray foam
Date:	12/21/2016 4:11:34 PM

John:

Have been thinking of doing the same on our cabin as you said 48 outside 46 inside :).

If you do not mind me asking who did you use and approx cost per square foot.

Also I know you calcualted the ROI of cost of foam vs. electric bill -- what was the payback timeframe:)

Thx

Name:	JTenn -	Reply
Subject:	spray foam
Date:	12/23/2016 2:53:34 PM

Make sure you DON'T put closed cell in your floor. It will trap moisture between the subfloor, joist and the insulation.