Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hillary's Achilles Heel
Date:	9/7/2016 8:23:57 PM

Having had extensive service where I was cleared for and had access to highly classified information, I have listened carefully to HRC's explanation regarding classified information on her personal server.  She has always said there was no information on her personal server MARKED (my added emphasis) classified.  Being the person she is, I would not be in the least surprised that on occasion....or as a standing order...instructed her correspondents to "just remove the classified banner and send it anyway".  Her Achilles heel is, if I am correct, the person who comes out and says she ordered such a thing.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hillary's Achilles Heel
Date:	9/7/2016 8:40:37 PM

Yes, I don't know how the FBI could not recommend that she be prosecuted for that.  I am still incensed about the email.  Even Paul Ryan said that he believes the FBI was playing a political game.  And there was a member of Congress on the news tonight saying that when he had access to classified (when he was in the military), if he did what Hilary did, he would have had his clearance pulled and perhaps been kicked out of  the Army.   Everyone knows what she did was a serious breach of national security. 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/8/2016 7:08:04 AM

Ex-military & civilian employees who were trained to keep close watch on their classified information seem uniformly alarmed at the extent to which political people in the government were discussing things using less-than-secure methods.   I get that.  There are lots of people who were told that if they mishandled sensitive information, there would be severe consequences, and those people are rightly shocked to find that in some quarters of the government the same topics are handled with less rigorous discipline. 

I think it was sloppy, and I can’t be sure if any real damage was done… except that the investigation of the FBI has concluded that there was not.   I also think that it won’t happen again, and that this will be one of those moments that will reinforce to all government employees… civilian & military… that constant scrutiny of this is imperative.   

On the other hand, I think things like condemning emails that acknowledge peripheral info about a drone program that is officially secret… but widely reported & discussed in public… is an example of making a mountain out of a molehill.     In this country, we have a military targeted assassination program that is both Top Secret and reported on the nightly news.      

I think you are going to have to admit that if investigations come down to a conclusion that it was sloppy but not criminal, we had better accept that finding.     Otherwise, you are going down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories wherein the FBI is colluding to elect Clinton, the defense department conspires against us all, the election is being rigged by nefarious forces, etc. etc.       It seems sometimes that the public is agreeing with every paranoid conspiracy theory that comes along rather than taking the time to separate the facts from the exaggerations.

As we approach this election, we had better weigh out very carefully what the flaws are in both candidates and project as best we can what their past actions say about their future decision making ability.     My thinking is that Clinton has been active in public affairs for so long, in so many ways, in such complex situations… that it is easy to find ways to criticize her at various points…. But these points are around the edges and don’t reveal anything other than she has lived & worked in the most complex decision making environment we can imagine.   Trump, on the other hand, voices supreme confidence in his intellect & judgement while making vague & completely contradictory statements about what he thinks and has said in the past.    He says he is crystal clear about what he would do, but has absolutely no track record for any decisions outside of the real estate & TV world.   Clinton has said she made errors in judgement… this indicates she can look at herself, accept when she has erred, and learn from mistakes.   Trump’s character type doesn’t allow for that.   He doesn’t admit mistakes, he doesn’t retract previous statements when he changes his mind.   He doesn’t even admit that he has changed his mind.   He holds himself to be above  such scrutiny and he is asking his supporters to invest more blind trust in him than you have ever put in a leader before. 

He says he wants to be unpredictable.   I don’t want a President who thinks this is a virtue.   We are not talking about real estate deals & TV ratings here. 

As I listen to him, I am shocked that ex-military or ex-government employees can have this much faith in him.   I thought people with direct experience in such things would be more cautious, more realistic, and place more importance on the quality of experience that prepares a candidate for the highest office in the nation.     Especially when I listen to his observations about the military & global strategic issues, I ask myself…. If I was in the military, would I really want to place my life & the lives of my men under this guy’s leadership?   What do you think about a guy who says he knows more than the Generals, that POW’s are losers and says he can ‘read the body language’ of CIA briefers to reach conclusions about their opinions of Presidential decisions?  

Really?      This guy?

Name:	DS Realist -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/8/2016 7:23:12 AM

Copperline, if info is in public, then it can't be sensitive or secret by definition.

I know you mean well, but this mishandling of classified info thing shows that she is either too dumb to be president or thinks she is above the law and can do what she wants.  I think it is the latter since she spent 8 years in the senate on the armed services committee and would have been trained there in how to handle classified info.

Just do a google search on people who were "prosecuted for mishandling classified info".  This might enlighten some on this site as well.  Many of these people had no intention to diseminate but were prosecuted anyway.  Supposedly there have been more prosecutions under the current president than under all the other presidents combined, which makes this case even more suspicious.

Then there is the way she handled it from denying it to eventually saying "she apologized for doing it".  When one breaks the law, is an apology all that is required?  Can't figure out what island she lives on......................

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/8/2016 7:26:47 AM

So nice of you to enlighten us once again.  Funny thing though,  Trump polls +19 with the military so your emphasis on his lack of millinery experience seems like a moot point.  But then again being liberal,  your entire life is a moot point.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Let me Clarify
Date:	9/8/2016 9:19:09 AM

one point.  If something is classified, it is classified even if it is reported on the evening news. First of all, the only person that can declassify something is the source that classified it in the first place.  Secondly, just because the news reports it, doesn't mean that the government is willing to acknowledge  it.  Thirdly, while the overall "thing" may be in the public domain, the details may still be classified. 

Now someone might not like those rules, but they are what they are.   Oh, and by the way, it is a security violation to talk around something classified, in a non-secure environment. 

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Coppertop
Date:	9/8/2016 9:30:04 AM

You are either the most naive human on earth, or very crafty at making people think you are.  The military leadership supports Trump because they have had to put up with the "socialist idiot what's in charge" for 8 years.  O-BAMMIE has fired most of the military leaders, so now only the yas, Sir" idiots are left.  Unlike liberal, limp wristed whackos, soldiers have a great deal of pride in their abilities and don't take kindly to being reduced to whining LGBTQUEERs and under qualified "combat" pansies.  Yes the military supports TRUMP, and for good reason.

YES, THE HILDA B-----H violated the law, and also violated the spirit of the law by doing her own thing with secured documents and emails.  Some of us that worked with TS and access secured fields actually had travel restrictions placed on us for years after our service. Don't you liberal idiots care about the people killed as a result of HILDA's actions......and don't give me any BS about "prove it".

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	For lifer...MOOT-Obsolete, of no relevance
Date:	9/8/2016 9:39:34 AM

For a 100% pro-lifer like lifer to say the life of anyone who is ''liberal'' (that is: anyone who is not in 100% lockstep with his enlightened vision) is ''of no relevance'' seems a bit hypocritical to me.  Sounds as if Lifer might think such a person even existing is of no importance and perhaps even unfortunate.  Remember pro-life Lifer is the one who has said on this forum he would roast marshmallows over my burning body rather than get the fire extinguisher! Nice guy!

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks man!
Date:	9/8/2016 10:01:19 AM

Thank you for pointing out my most excellent use of the English (American version, southern redneck dialect). Moot,  is exactly what you are.

The more telling thing about about your post is the obvious disdain you feel for anyone you perceive as "pro-life". First off,  you have no idea what my position on abortion is.  You only know what I post here,  which may or may not reflect my personal beliefs. I have stated many times I will take a position I don't believe just for the sake of a good argument. For example,  I would have gladly supported your mother's right to abort you. Now flag this post too.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	SO TRUE
Date:	9/8/2016 12:34:33 PM

"You only know what I post here,  which may or may not reflect my personal beliefs." This is so true of the majority of those on the Right who post. They live in 2 different worlds....right Wixxie?

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/8/2016 12:56:49 PM

I am shocked at your BS. Do you think that ex-military and active duty personnel who have received punishment for actions that were minimal in comparison to Hillary's missteps will have any respect for her as their Commander-in-Chief? I served twenty years in the military and to think that our military personnel might have a CIC who thinks she is above the law and consistently lies and laughs off her actions is deplorable. She will continue in the steps of Obama who has fired generals and other military leaders who did not support his do-nothing approach to handling terrorist uprisings around the world. Remember his famous analysis that ISIS is the JV and we have them on the run. How we have allowed a "Community Organizer" who has never served in the military to over ride the decisions and intelligence of our military leaders is also "deplorable". Obama's leadership has our economy performing at 1% GDP and our military at an all time low.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	SO TRUE
Date:	9/8/2016 1:01:42 PM

Couldn't resist asking, how many worlds do you live in?

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/8/2016 1:06:21 PM

Some people seem to think that the military has great confidence in Trump, I doubt that.   As I write this, I am remembering what a friend told me... that the most dangerous person on the field in Viet Nam was the military-school First Lieutenant with no experience and total confidence that he knew the answers to everything.   

I assume most writers here are past the age when they are active duty, so maybe you should be thinking whether you want to put your kids and grandkids under the leadership of a shallow thinker like Donald Trump.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/8/2016 1:57:39 PM (updated 9/8/2016 2:07:08 PM)

What you just posted about the First Liieutenant holds even more water when you apply it to Obama whose only experience was as a "Community Organizer". Unlike the First Lieutenant who commanded a "platoon", Obama(with absolutelys  no military experience), commands  the complete military. So why are you treating Trump any different than you treat Obama? At least Trump says he will listen to his military advisors while Obama fires his generals when they are in disagreement with him. Also why didn't you offer a   response to my comments as Hillary being our next President and CIC. Remember she's the one having our soldiers who were going to respond to Benghazi change uniforms so we wouldn't embarrass the Syrians. Is that the kind of decision making our next President should have? I don't think so.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Let me Clarify
Date:	9/8/2016 2:05:38 PM

Agree, and I believe the rationale is that by not discussing it or confirming it there is some doubt as to whether it is either true or classified.  Seems silly on the surface but there is some logic to it.

Interesting that the village liberals didn't pounce on the hypothetical element of my post.  Instead we get long drawn out rationalization that what Hillary did isn't so bad and that Trump is a clear and present danger to the country.  Little if any facts and a whole bucket full of opinion.

Of course it is highly unlikely that person would come forward.  They remember what happened to Vince Foster.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Well, as I say re: Lifer
Date:	9/8/2016 3:36:02 PM

Nice guy!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/8/2016 3:44:39 PM

I wouldn't even want my grand kids to go to a summer camp run by this guy. To call him a shallow thinker is a complement...he is a blithering puffed up egotistical idiot who is probably on the edge of being a psychopath! 

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/8/2016 4:03:34 PM

I see you chose to offer your profound comments about Trump. Do you have any thoughts about my comments on Hillary. I have my feelings about her much the same as you have yours about Trrump. She is nothing more than a lying XXXXx who holds herself above the law. Do whatever she pleases and the FBI and the Justice Department merely refers to her action as "careless".

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/8/2016 9:08:17 PM (updated 9/8/2016 9:21:55 PM)

As I have stated, we do not have good choice this year...Hillary is sleazy, operates close to the line and is very loose with the truth.  Trump is sleazy, operates close to the line and is very loose with the truth.  Hillary also is very intellegent, has expreience, is thoughtful and cautious and is reasonably mentally stable.  Trump is not.  Yes that is my opinion, but if you actually listen with an open mind to what the two are saying, and as importantly, not saying,  I honestly think most people would come to the same conclusion.

PS: Hillary sent emails which were confidential to other people in the government and Mr Comey himself says there is no evidence that any bad actors received them and that they were marked with a C rather than the usual ''Top Secret, Secret, Classified or Confidential" heading.  Gen Petreous whispered state secrets into the ear of his mistress.  He was indicted for a crime and that ''awful'' Atty Gen Eric Holder reduced it to a misdomeanor.

PSS: If Hillary is duly elected and any of the military fails to show her the respect due to WHOMEVER is President, then they are failing to live up to the oath they swore and need to find another place to earn their living!

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/9/2016 11:54:45 AM

Who wants to accept Mr. Comey's word that "no bad actors received any of Hillary's classified e-mails"? It is prettty evident what Comey  was tasked to do relative to any findings on Hillary. When "hackers" have been able access some of our government's sophisticated information systems, I firmly believe that everything on Hillary's servers is in the hands of governments around the world. With all the lies and evidence that has surfaced about Hillary, who would think otherwise? If she is elected President(heaven forbid), Putin and others likely have all the information they need to "blackmail" her.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Village liberal here.....
Date:	9/9/2016 2:23:56 PM

I didn't reply to your hypothetical mainly because I think that if there was a standing order like that,  it would have been revealed already.   That's not a secret that would be easily kept these days.   I still think that this episode is just revealing that at this level of State Dept-Congressional-White House interaction, there is communication that isn't handled the way you guys were trained to handle it.    I don't know how to explain that ... nor am I defending it...., I'd just note that Colin Powell used similar communications methods apparently.   But I'm thinking that neither Powell nor Clinton were as casual & careless about it as their critics might want to assume.   Both are too savvy for that, and there is no evidence of damage from what they did.

I have always been impressed by the degree to which your training might have instilled a strong reaction to the disclosing of military secrets.   And I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but that it is really different when you have been a civilian without that intense indoctrination.   Many years back, I read a book called The Puzzle Palace about the NSA, and in it was a desciption of the secret ELINT missions flown into Russian airspace to probe their reactions.   I mentioned what I had read to a friend who had been an intelligence officer and asked if he knew about them.   He said that even hearing me ask about it, to talk about it himself, made him feel almost nauseated because it was a secret that no one was supposed to know.  Of course, years had passed... the information was (sort of) public and he had been discharged years before.   But his training had ingrained in him such a severe revulsion about keeping these secrets that it almost made him feel physically sick.    In a similar vein, the guys I have met that worked in the nuclear subs were also highly trained to be tight-lipped.  It must be shocking to have that training & then to hear that a congressman, or a cabinet member has a much more casual approach to something you were trained to view as nothing less than crucial.   I remember that Jimmy Carter let slip info about Stealth technology, and that Ronald Reagan liked to carry on about his Star Wars satellite system plans.....   Those incidents must have made several people puke each time...... 

Beyond that issue.....Maybe we are all stuck with speculations & opinions more than we would like when it comes to this election.   Both sides of this one feel like the stakes are really high & threats are significant.   And I choose to go with Hillary Clinton.     Certainly I can't prove everything I believe about Trump's personality & temperment, but I do think I can point out more evidence in his behavior for what I put out there than his supporters can.     Truth is that Clinton opponents feel little trust in her by citing her past & present actions.    Who's closer to right?

Well, I am.  (insert laughter)  That's why it's called my opinion.    

i can respect that other people can reason this one out differently, but I really don't want to spend my time swapping insults with any of the posters who think that is how civil public debate should be.   I'm sure you  guysknow what I mean.   

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/9/2016 2:45:05 PM (updated 9/9/2016 2:50:03 PM)

Well, Comey states that there are no definitive indicators that Hillary's private email was hacked.  Are you calling Mr Comey a liar?  Do you think only Hillary will be open to Blackmail?  Surely you are not that naive! 

It is a fact that many government and private business and political cyber systems have been hacked by bad guys and just curious guys, so what makes you think a president Trump White House would be immune to the prying eyes of Vladimir Putin or his co-conspirator Julian Assange?  I figure Putin already knows what his poodle Donald Trump sang in the shower this morning.

Do you have even the least bit of concern with Trump's embrace of a "leader" who arrests his opponents, shuts down opposition media outlets, jails and/or kills journalists who question his actions, Sends thugs to break up meetings by opponents and the LGBT community, loves the Demascus murderer, summarily annexes parts of other countries, and clandestinely invades neighbor nations?  Sounds a lot like 1933-39 and another "strong" leader to me and Trump is today's Charles Lindbergh, or Joseph P Kennedy or Edward VIII.  Before somebody goes and accuses me of comparing Trump to Hitler read again...I am comparing Putin to Hitler and Trump to the apologists for Hitler.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/9/2016 2:46:41 PM

I have to chuckle when you guys use the term "community organizer" as an insult, it isn't demeaning at all.   Actually, community organizers are the guys out there working to make things better for people in their communities... not trying to get rich off of them.   And I think you forget Obama's other vocation.... as a professor teaching constitutional law. 

yes, I think Obama's experience as a commuity organizer, law professor and Senator.... as well as Clinton's experience as children's advocacy attorney, Senator and Secretary of State.... give them a far better preparation for being POTUS than what is on Trump's resume.  

Just the fact that what they did was public service outshines someone who was completely devoted to amassing wealth for personal glory.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Another pant load
Date:	9/9/2016 3:42:16 PM

You can continue to claim Powell did it first all you want,  that doesn't make it true.  Collin Powell SOMETIMES used a Gmail account for routine daily correspondence with some staff.  He DID NOT set up his own server, and then use it exclusively. If you believe Hillary used it for convenience then you are too naive to even have intelligent discussions with on the issue. It was done to keep all of her back room dirty transactions from ever seeing the light of day,  much less be subjected to FRIA requests. Quit trying to justify her behavior by pointing to what Powell did. First off Powell has denied the conversation Hillary claims where he told her to do the server,  but on top of that the conversation, if it did happen as Hillary lied,  was months AFTER she already had the server up and running.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/9/2016 3:47:19 PM

"Children's advocacy attorney" what a joke.  You mean the way she advocated for the 12yo girl raped by a serial. Predator who she got off with time served?  That child advocate? 

The amassing wealth statement shows that you are too far into the cool aide to be reasoned with.

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/9/2016 7:31:26 PM

Nope. What you have there is the continuation of economic disaster. Neither of your legends has enough business accumen or courage to manage our economy..And the expected expansion of social programs under her helm will hasten the financial collapse of my country.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	My thoughts on that
Date:	9/9/2016 11:38:39 PM (updated 9/9/2016 11:40:13 PM)

I am glad to know that I gave you a chuckle. I guess that's my good deed for the day. Also, I continue to marvel at the way you go about judging someones qualifications for certain critical positions within our government. You describe a "Community Organizer" as the guys out there working to make things "better" for people in their communities. Can you honestily provide any examples of how Obama has made things better for the African Americans in our country? America is much more divided among the races than when he took office eight years ago. What things can you say he made better in Chicago(his hometown), as a Community Organizer? There have been over 500 murders in Chicago to date, and on average 12 people are shot in Chicago every day, with a total of 2,949 people shot to date. If this is your definition of good things being done by Community Organizers, we don't need anymore Community Organizers making things better in their communities. Why has Obama turned a deaf ear to the murders and shootings in his hometown? Chicago is a city where disagreements are settled with guns and numerous innocent people are killed in the process. Do "black lives" really matter"? Has anyone point blank asked President Obama if black lives in Chicago really matter? I would like to know his answer.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Village liberal here.....
Date:	9/11/2016 9:33:01 PM (updated 9/11/2016 9:48:39 PM)

Regardless of what you might have read, those really are the rules.  BTW, are you sure the PUzzle Palace wasn't about the Pentagon.  I've heard the Pentagon referred to that way, but not NSA. In fact, until the last 10-15 years, you did not refer to NSA at all, because it's existence was classified. 

Our collection methods are classified, so someone would feel a bit sick to have someone ask about it, particularly when you sign a non-disclosure document when you leave the military or civilian life.  You do understand that information is classfied by the potential it has to impact U.S. National Security.  So that those of us who have held high security clearances realize that talking about information when there is not a clear "need to know", could be subject to prosecution even after we leave service.  This is not a joke.  I don't think it is that we are "indoctrinated" but we understand the consequences.  And if sources and methods are compromised, people can die. 

So while you may think it is amusing, and we are making a big deal about what Hilary did, I assure you it is appropriate. 

And it is pretty clear that the FBI director made a political decision to not recommend charges, since he surely knew that the WH was not going to allow the Justice to prosecute her.  No doubt the FBI director would prefer not to be relieved from his job.  But DO NOT forget that he did say the handling was extremely careless.