Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Ben Carson's moral flexibility
Date:	3/12/2016 10:12:49 AM

Watched with some interest this week as Carson dropped out of the race and then endorsed Trump.  I would have thought that Carson would throw his support to the other evangelical candidate (Cruz) as this would have been a natural pivot.  But Trump?   How do you explain that?

This suggests to me that Carson isn’t as devoted to his religious beliefs as previously thought, since endorsing Trump means endorsing distinctly un-christian actions, beliefs, and rhetoric… not just over the period of this campaign… but his whole life.

Carson’s weak statement that “there are two Donald Trumps” is also something of a puzzle since he is saying that the fellow on the stage isn’t the real guy at all.   Isn’t that what these ‘outsider’ candidates have been accusing career politicians of all along?   And what are we to make of his endorsement of a candidate that isn’t who he appears to be?   Carson is supporting an important new narrative in the Trump mythology.

There is an interesting shift going on in the Trump campaign with the newly floated notion that The Donald isn’t really the shape-shifting demagogue that he appears to be.  Instead, the new idea goes, he has consciously crafted his persona to look aggressive but this is really a negotiating technique.   By appearing tough, the theory goes, he has put his opponents on the defensive and can pressure them to conform to his wishes.   So it’s all for show.    I guess that makes it just like professional wrestling after all. 

Carson is simply giving cover to Trump apologists by embracing this guy.   The pious notion that he comes to his endorsement with christian forgiveness is bogus & deliberately ignores that Trump's hostility continues undiminished by either moral conviction or decency when it comes to inciting public violence.   I wonder what the ladies at church think about Ben endorsing the candidate who disrespects so many of the things they consider to be decent and moral.

Many of them will simply morph into Trump supporters and ignore the elephant in the room, I suppose.   Too bad for us as a nation.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Ben Carson's moral flexibility
Date:	3/12/2016 12:00:36 PM

I've long thought that there is more to Trump than this public persona.  Trump understands the value of free press, and this brash, hard talking Trump is his public persona.  But, people that know him well, know him to be generous, amusing and good company.  A review of his educational background and his success in business would lead one to assume that there is also an intellect.  But his base apparently likes and relates to this bad boy public persona.  I don't think this is much different than the Cruz public persona - somene who has yet to show his true nature to the public.  They play to their base. 

With regard to Ben Carson, it didn't really surprise me that he endorsed Trump.  There was a debate introductin a few debates ago, that left Ben Carson standing alone in the wings.  Trump did not go out when his name was called, but chose to stand there with Ben Carson, rather than have him stand there alone.  I think Ben Carson has understood that Trump is in reality a decent person, a big thinker and realizes that this is how the political games in this country are played.  I think it has always been like this but this cycle it is just more visible to the average person. 

In my opinion, the only two people in this election cycle who are as they appear are Bernie Sanders and John Kasich. 

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Ben Carson Wants a Leader
Date:	3/12/2016 2:32:37 PM

I think you are right.  Carson said this is not about me, or about Trump, it is about our nation.  In this endeavor we are not "calling" a preacher.  We are looking for the best flawed candidate to lead the country.  Carson has looked at the alternatives, and Cruz be a good preacher (and I understand his Dad can lay it down) but Cruz is not the best GOP alternative for our country's issues.  And Carson does not want to continue on the path we chose just under eight years ago.

Some time back in another I listed my reasons that Trump, at that time, looked like the candidate of lesser compromise.  Perhaps, Carson did the same thing. 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Ben Carson's moral flexibility
Date:	3/12/2016 5:05:17 PM

It seems that lots of people are willing to reframe Trump as the sort of leader they admire and would be happy to follow.  Here is a link to a really good article that examines research on the voting public and offers an explanation for the rise of Donald Trump.   It’s worth reading.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism

In it, the author looks at several researchers who study “authoritarianism — not actual dictators, but rather a psychological profile of individual voters that is characterized by a desire for order and a fear of outsiders. People who score high in authoritarianism, when they feel threatened, look for strong leaders who promise to take whatever action necessary to protect them from outsiders and prevent the changes they fear.”

“Authoritarians are thought to express much deeper fears than the rest of the electorate, to seek the imposition of order where they perceive dangerous change, and to desire a strong leader who will defeat those fears with force. They would thus seek a candidate who promised these things. And the extreme nature of authoritarians' fears, and of their desire to challenge threats with force, would lead them toward a candidate whose temperament was totally unlike anything we usually see in American politics — and whose policies went far beyond the acceptable norms. A candidate like Donald Trump.”

They conclude that Trump embodies the classic authoritarian leadership style: simple solutions, powerful messaging, and punitive reactions.  

I would say you should be very careful what you wish for, you might just get it because flirting with Trumpism is playing with fire on a scale we haven’t known before.   This isn’t good leadership, it’s following a distorted political movement off a cliff.    As a counter-reaction to Trump grows (not talking about the political opposition to him, but the activation of people in the street who have taken the brunt of his rhetoric as insulting)…. As these counter-protests grow, so will the opposite reaction of the Authoritarians who will see these counter-protests as evidence of the decline of social order they fear most.   Trump will deny his role in the provocations and repeat calls for authoritarian solutions and hostility…creating an upward spiral of violent confrontations.   

Trump isn’t going to back off his incendiary rhetoric because it affirms his power to see these reactions in the crowds.   His ego feeds on it rather than being repulsed by it.    He’s like the school yard bully who sends his followers to beat up the kid he doesn’t like, then crows that he could have done it himself… but just didn’t want to get dirt under his fingernails.  What he really likes is seeing people do what he tells them to do, even if he denies responsibility for it later.

Name:	HARRY -	Reply
Subject:	Ben Carson's moral flexibility
Date:	3/12/2016 6:02:52 PM

Sounds like a leader to me.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Ben Carson's moral flexibility
Date:	3/12/2016 7:17:30 PM

If you want to fear a candidate, fear Ted Cruz, not Donald Trump.  He is truly the wolf in sheep's clothing.  He is the true authoritan, not Trump. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, I Am Curious
Date:	3/12/2016 7:27:14 PM

You have been steadfastly anti-Cruz from the beginning.  I personally would not vote for him unless he is the Republican running against the witch, but wonder what leads you to be so vehemently opposed to him (honest question, no ulterior motives in asking).

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, I Am Curious
Date:	3/12/2016 9:06:57 PM

First of all, he is a Tea Partier.  He's also a true believer in his vision of America, which would take us back decades.  He wants to mix church and state.  He makes statements about abolishing government agencies, "on the first day" - to include the IRS (uh, who is going to collect those taxes, who will ensure that people pay their taxes, and who will go after those that don't) and the Department of Education, which considering the state of Alabama schools, will be a disaster - Alabama legislators see education funds as another fund they can dip into).  He also says he will abolish Obamacare 'the first day' he is in office.  Well, no problem with doing away with Obamacare, but what is he going to replace it with?  And he has demonstrated that he can't get along with his former Congressional collegues and I foresee nothing but him butting heads endlessly with Paul Ryan.  He shut down the govenrment, costing millions to taxpayers, because he was unwilling to compromise  The military says that his plan to carpet bomb ISIS will not work.  And that's just off the top of my head. 

The more I see, the more I like John Kasich, but I'm afraid Mr. Kasich will not be the nominee. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, I Am Curious
Date:	3/12/2016 9:20:39 PM (updated 3/12/2016 9:23:08 PM)

I don't agree with you about Kasich...I have watched him literally for years and have been impressed with his down to earth, logical approach to things.  He is not conservative enough for some on this forum but to me that means if elected he might actually get something done.  I think (hope?) that he is a sleeper who might be able to end up as the nominee if there were to be a brokered convention.  He continues to refuse to go the low road with mud slinging....he may be the only adult in the race.

And yes, I voted for him in the Alabama Republican Primary.

BTW, I don't hold Tea Partier against anyone.  The original intent of the movement was admirable; unfortunately that has been hijacked by extremists.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, I Am Curious
Date:	3/13/2016 12:40:17 PM

In my mind, Cruz is a prime example of a Tea Partier that has taken it to extreme. 

On the morning talk shows, Kasich seemed very positive and hopeful.  I agree that he does seem logical and rationale and has refused to get down in the mud slinging.  I think he could get stuff done with Congress, which would be a nice change. 

I have to say that I normally don't by into the Liberal Media bias - but today it was pretty blatant on Face the Nation - the commentator made it pretty clear that he doesn't like Trump, even while he was interviewing him.  Same on Meet the Press, but I expect it there.  I find myself longing for the days of Walter Cronkite and Tim Russert, and Bob Sheiver.  And interestingly enough, the entire show of CBS Sunday Morning was about guns, and I saw a distinct bias for  gun control.  I normally enjoy that program for it's diverse topics and interviews. 

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, I Am Curious
Date:	3/13/2016 7:17:00 PM

Kasich is promising legalization of illegals within 100 days of his administration.  Doesn't sound like an adult to me.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Not answering for Hound...but
Date:	3/14/2016 2:55:41 PM (updated 3/14/2016 2:57:28 PM)

Humph...I haven't heard that (have you got a link?), but if he said it all the more reason to give him support...common sense used to be considered an adult characteristic.  Makes infinitely more sense than Trump's promise to round up and deport 12,000,000 people.  The round up is gona make for great visuals on TV.  Imagine how ISIS and Putin will play it.  Wonder how MM is going to react when the Pope and 100% of the US bishops speak out against such an "inhumane atrocity"?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hound's answer
Date:	3/14/2016 6:47:18 PM

From what I have heard, he said that it is not practical to think that all the illegals can be deported.  I think he supports some "fast track" for citizenship (which I personally don't support) and work visas.  It's not my favorite position as I don't support any kind of 'fast track", since we have a system for immigration; and before I could support work visas, I would want them to fix the visa system - which is broke (they disappear and there is no way to track them) I know he supports strengthening our borders, and I think he may support building a wall.  All things being equal, I could live with his position on this, to have someone in the WH that can actually get along with Congress. 

It's not that I think he is ideal but I feel better about him over the others.  And up until now, I have liked Trump.  But it's time for Trump for Trump to start seriously discussing the issues in more detail instead of his "it's going to be great". 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Only in America
Date:	3/14/2016 7:26:31 PM

Only in America can a snake oil salesman be elected President!

Oh, wait, this wouldn't be the first time.....2008 comes to mind.....

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hound's answer
Date:	3/14/2016 8:12:38 PM

I went back and confirmed   that I was right. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Only in America
Date:	3/14/2016 8:13:45 PM

Are we forgetting Bill Clinton.  I think he was a bigger snake oil salesman that Obama.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Only in America
Date:	3/14/2016 8:34:32 PM

Oh no!  Not the beloved Bill!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Only in America
Date:	3/14/2016 10:00:06 PM

Bill could sell snow to Eskimos. That's how slick he is.