Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 12:31:39 AM

Here’s a hypothetical scenario I’d like to get everybody’s take on. 

Let’s assume that Trump gets elected and after 100 days or so he’s ready to start implementing his primary campaign promises.   

First, he orders that no Muslims be allowed to enter the US and then tells law enforcement to start rounding up some 11 million people for deportation.   Those two things can be done quickly, I assume… By executive order of the President……Building the Mexican Wall will take longer to organize, design & fund so it will come later in his Presidency.

Thinking about what would need to be done to stop Muslims from entering the US and the 11 million illegals…..Exactly what will that sort of large-scale operation look like on the ground?   How you think it could be done operationally…..just the broad brush strokes, obviously….   See any problems that might come up?

Serious responses welcome......  

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 8:08:27 AM

Vetting and jetting!!

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 8:53:15 AM

You began with the wrong premise, he has said seal the border first then deal with the illegals.

His Muslim approach could be dealt with easily.......simply substitute Christians from those Mideast countries rather than Muslims.....you dems would have no problem with that would you??

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 9:21:07 AM

I can see a lot of problems coming up, not the least of which we are going to look like Germany in the mid 30's...really gona play big on You Tube world wide.  Of course these acts will be roundly condemned by the entire world including Putin and most people in the US including many Trump voters, but it will be too late...the die will have been cast.  I suspect Trumps actual first act will be to appoint a fellow traveler to the SS court to head off any judicial ''interference'' with his grand schemes. 

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 10:29:50 AM

Archy......your grand sweep of generalizations and hyper use of stereotypes are getting a bit much.

To calm yourself down, you need to do a better reading of your history and some reflection so you don't look so foolish here.....there are no parralells to the situation in Germany in the '30s where you had a nation that was utterly defeated in WW1' humiliated by the imposition of the Versailles Treaty which caused the break down on the gov't institutions, setting the stage for a lowly corporal who was wounded, blinded by a gas attack and won nearly every medal up to and including the Iron Cross First Class during his war time experience. This fueled his anger ambition.

In addition, while still in the army after the war his regiment was in Bavaria during a time when a socialist regime had taken over the provincial government..............and he came under the influence of these socialists forces, which he eventually took over the leadership of and the rest is history.

No parralells here........the one take away for me is the evil that socialist policies encourages and promotes.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 12:21:22 PM (updated 9/21/2016 12:29:14 PM)

Well well, you seem to look on Hitler's early days immediately after WW I with some degree of understanding if not outright admiration.  I respectfully suggest that you do need to reread some of the history of Germany immediately after the war.  The party that Hitler eventually led was in NO way a part of the government of Bavaria.  The police and military in Bavaria were very right wing and had Hitler among others to spy on political groups they feared. The National Socialist German Workers Party (called the NAZI party for short) was a party Hitler spied on and in which he saw an opportunity as a vehicle to peddle his extremist opinions.  At the time it was a very small dissident group with mildly Socialist leanings and thuggish tendencies.  Hitler joined and, using his mesmerizing speaking ability, soon rose to the leadership at which time all leftist aspects of the party were purged and replaced with the extreme rightist and racist philosophy espoused by their new leader. It was all downhill from there.  

I do not think that Trump is an dictator wannabe like Hitler, or that a Trump presidency would lead to anything resembling the 3d Reich,  but if you follow Trump's campaign and his proposed policies it is undeniable there are some mild and a few not so mild parallels to the early days of the rise of Fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany and anybody that does not recognize them is either ignorant of history or has their head in the sand.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 12:28:26 PM

There you go again, sweeping generalizations".........admire?? Really...really?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 12:40:41 PM (updated 9/21/2016 12:48:19 PM)

Read you own words..."lowly corporal who was wounded, blinded by gas attacks and wion nearly every medal up to and including the Iron Cross First Class"... Sounds like the description of real hero to me.

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 12:44:19 PM (updated 9/21/2016 12:45:01 PM)

  @ Rude      The Christians are left for slaughter.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 12:59:49 PM

Forest meet trees.......described his action in war that could be argued was a major motivation for his anger at his country being humiliated with the V treaty......you need a little perspective slick....

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 1:02:15 PM

You need to read your history and open your eyes and ears...Slick!

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	OK, let's stick to the knitting here.
Date:	9/21/2016 1:18:31 PM

We could probably debate historical parallels to Germany all year long and get no where, I think.   The question I ask is "what would it take to operationalize Trump's campaign promises?".

Someone suggested we would close the borders to Muslims first.  OK.  How exactly do you do that?  Do you ask questions about everyone's religious preferences at the border crossings?   What would that procedure look like?   Would we need to verify that they were telling the truth beyond just asking them to check a box saying they were not Muslim?  Are we only asking this question of people from selected countries?  If so, which ones?

And what if they are Muslim but have legitimate business interests or family in the US?   Would you include banning both businessmen & tourists?   

What does the screening tool for keeping Muslims out look & sound like?

I'd like to hear opinions about  the other scenario (that being exactly what a deportation program for 11.1 million people will look like), too.   I'm just looking for operational descriptions here, less interested in debating whether we are in favor of Trump's ideas or not.  

By what methods would we carry out his ideas?  Any takers?

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 1:19:27 PM

I don't understand what you mean by this.  Could you explain?

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 1:53:05 PM

    @ copper         Possiby visual aids would work for you.

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/2013/05/19/graphic-images-of-christian-persecution-under-islam/

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	9/21/2016 2:57:21 PM

Those are photographs of people who have been brutally butchered in the Middle East.  I agree it is horrific.  I take it that you point is that these photographs are WHY we should be banning all Muslims.

But that has nothing to do with HOW we would actually prevent Muslims from entering this country, and by what means we would be stopping them at the border.

Do you have any ideas or suggestions about exactly what questions you would ask if you were a Border Patrol agent charged with identifying whether a person is Muslim or not?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Copper-krap*
Date:	9/21/2016 3:39:54 PM

Your so called president is flying muslims into the USA in chartered jets.  You don't have to stop 99% at the border because o-BAMMIE is inviting them in and providing $69,000 to each one per year.  If they are crossing the border see how good their Mexican Spanish is.  Ain't too many muslims speaking Spanish.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Copper-krap*
Date:	9/21/2016 3:47:21 PM

See my answer at 3:39 above this thread.  Now, you conspiracy theory BS makes about as much sense as all your other krap you post on this forum.  Get real, please.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Copper-krap*
Date:	9/21/2016 5:46:47 PM

That was definitely a swing and a miss.  Strike one.   So far, your plan is to screen out Muslims by determing if they can speak Spanish or not.  You really haven't thought about this sort of thing very much, have you?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Copper-krap*
Date:	9/21/2016 6:17:56 PM

You didn't comment on my first two sentences.....comment.....or hush!!!!!

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/21/2016 11:23:59 PM

If no one responds, it makes it look like Trump supporters don't like what they see when they have to contemplate what his campaign promises would have to look like on the ground.    

If you start to really think about operationalizing Trump's ideas, you have to admit there are a few problems that might crop up here & there......  

So maybe it's best not to look at them? 

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/22/2016 3:42:25 AM

You are the best at knowing what anyone else thinks. If no one responds, "it makes it look like we don't like what we see". If you really think about it, "you have to admit that there are a 'few' problems that may crop up". I didn't respond because I didn't see a need to answer your question. I guess you can say I used my prerogative not to answer the same as you have done to several of my questions directed to you,

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/22/2016 2:09:56 PM

I think the fact that Trump supporters can't/won't describe what they think Trump's deportation & Muslim ban programs will be like is probably clear evidence that many supporters either aren't thinking this through, or don't want to take the time to examine what his proposals would really mean.   For the most part, they seem to be content with just chanting his slogans.    

If you don't bother to analyze the content of what he is saying he wants to do.......That's blind faith.  

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/22/2016 3:58:07 PM

CL, I suggest you read and analyze the long speech djt gave on immigration.  I am surprised you have not already studied it.  Trump was clear (to the dislike to some conservatives) about dealing with the mass illegals later.

Now on the influx of others (Muslim or mothers) are you ok with a little more vetting? 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/22/2016 4:46:42 PM

No, for Trump to get a pass because he says he will "deal with illegal immigrants later" isn't a very good idea at all.  All he is saying is 'forget what I said and don't look into it very deeply'.   His supporters have a duty to take a look now, and not vote to elect him without considering the effects of what he has said.   He has made a practice of avoiding these specifics up to now.   That has to stop.

More vetting?  Of course.  Better tracking of immigrants?  I like that, too.  Immigration reform has been needed for some time now, I believe.    But Trump has said he would "Ban all Muslims from entering the US"... and that's going to require that we check the religion of all people coming thru the borders and turn back Islamic people.

How do you think we would do that exactly?

If Trump's campaign platform contains ideas that absolutely can't be implemented, then how is it that he can keep your support?

Somebody needs to step up and offer some suggestions about how this sort of ban can actually be done.......  or admit that they have no idea, and just blindly trust Donald Trump to somehow do it anyway.   And consequences be damned......

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/22/2016 6:27:42 PM

You will see that a President Trump will align with those who did not win the most convservative votes because his plan will be to deal "humanely" with that large group.  He will have pressure, and will probably think himself, that citizenship is not a route to go for them.  He has made clear that those seeking citizenship will not automatically get it, perhaps they are the ones who have to return and then reenter by "legal means".  Do you think there are legal means to enter this country?  Are there illegal means to enter.

As regards Muslims, surely you have watched, heard and read the shift on that as well.  Perhaps, you have not, but I have been dependent on you for all info Trump, so I hope you will catch up.

All of this that you say for us is "blind faith" on what Trump says he will do,  and you seem for sweep under the rug, with open eyes, all the Clinton has done.  We can appreciate the info you provide to us, and I really think you are just trying to find some good reason to vote for Hillary.......Good Luck

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/22/2016 7:44:28 PM

Copper, don't you realize you are wasting your keystrokes?  You aren't going to convince any of those on this forum who have decided to vote against the Hillary Criminal.  You see, SHE is the problem, not DT.  Reasoning people have decided to take a chance on Trump rather than accept what they KNOW will happen if HRCriminal were to be elected.  You can rationalize until your fingers are reduced to nubs but the fact remains that you support a proven disaster, and a dishonest disaster at that.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/22/2016 11:25:32 PM

If it's all the same to you guys, I think I will continue my little contribution to the Clinton Campaign from here.  She will lose Alabama, the larger electorate will be close I'm afraid.   It's too important to let you shut me down.

  I think my points are going unanswered and no one wants to really think about the consequences of a Trump Presidency... whereas a Clinton Presidency is more easily predicted.  

  It amazes me that formerly cautious conservative voters (like people on this forum) are ready to shuck all previous values & invest so much trust in a character like Donald Trump.  His business record speaks for itself.  His life was displayed in the tabloids.   His Howard Stern Interviews are not the kind of thing you would not want your kids to watch.     None of his works have ever been discribed as humanitarian or charitable.... His whole life has been a total focus on gaining wealth and showing it off to us.  

And if Trump supporters don't take the time to look at the impact of what a guy like Trump can do, it doesn't make sense to make your vote for him.

....unless it comes down to just giving up... hating both options.. and going with Trump on blind faith that "shaking things up" can ONLY result in GREAT things.........  

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/23/2016 1:01:36 AM

I guess the scenario between Bill and Monica is something you wouldn't have a problem with your kids watching.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/23/2016 8:47:01 AM

What a pants load once again. There aren't any normal Joe's that could explain our current deportation process,  much less one that is nothing more than and idea right now. A GREAT Idea,  but just that. The few that do actually follow such things know that current numbers are a farce. Once again obammy didn't like the numbers so they change the way they are calculated. Border turn around are now considered "deportations". Don't like inflation numbers take food and fuel out of the equation. Unemployment? Don't count folks that just give up looking.  Etc etc.  Etc.

On the other hand it is very easy to picture Hillary world, we've had an 8 year preview with promises of even more to come.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/23/2016 8:52:06 AM

You did not answer my questions above.

 Do you think there are legal means to enter this country?  Are there illegal means to enter?

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/23/2016 10:17:13 AM

Sorry, I didn't understand your question earlier.  Yes, there are legal methods for immigrating into this country.   Those procedures definitely need to be reviewed, updated, & refined to include a better way to track individuals who enter until they complete the immigration process.    In recent years, the review & refinement of the immigration system has been held up by partisan conflicts within Congress and between Conservatives in Congress & President Obama.

The legal immigration process needs to be reformed.  Both sides agree with that.

Now, estimates are that there are 11.1 million immigrants living in the US who have an uncertain immigration status... many of them have been here for years, established families, taken jobs and tried their best to integrate into US communities.   Requiring all of those people to return to their home countries, reapply for entry Visas and return to the US is an impractical idea.   Many people who are here cannot return to their home countries because they cannot afford to do so.   Consequently, they will hide from authorities and resist deportation.   Many of them have children who were born here and by right of birth have US citizenship, further complicating the idea that these families should just pack up & leave.  

It's important to note that many of these illegals came here to escape conditions in their home countries that aren't just unhappy, but dangerous.   For instance, the Salvadoran painting crew I wrote about some months ago felt it was simply too dangerous to return to the gangs & violence they fled.   Plus, too, the financial cost of making the trip back home, staying there with no job or way to support themselves while waiting for a visa application to be completed... well, it was just a barrier they would logically try to avoid.   As far as these guys were concerned, there was no home to go back to.

To be honest, many immigrants might decide that living in an internment camp here in the US is better, safer and affords a better standard of living than they could have if they return to their country of origin... whether it be Salvador, Honduras, Somalia, Ethiopia, Lebanon, Iraq or Syria.

Better to deal with these people in place, offering a path to citizenship to those that qualify, coming up with a reasonable way for us to deal with them without rejecting our traditional values of being a nation that welcomes immigrants.   Isn't the inscription on the Statue of Liberty that says "give me your poor, your tired & huddled masses... yearning to be free"?   

It's just impractical to do what Trump says.   And probably dangerous, too.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/23/2016 11:27:50 AM

I tried to point you to what Trump said in his speech on immigration.  He would agree with a lot of what you just wrote. Not sure he would use the word "uncertain".  Many agree.  Write this down, read my fingers typing, he ain't gonna send all those folks home.  He knows it can't be done.  He stated (and you heard and read this) we will deal later, and it will be humanely.  He knows better than most the worker contribution.  For those entering legally (and I am so glad you know there is a legal method) the Statue of Liberty is message to a beacon of hope. 

He will do what he can to reform immigration, to handle from this point on.  Current admin and hrc will not. The reform you are hoping for will be termed 'extreme vetting".   And quit blaming all issue on Congress, they can't even get a straight answer from a government employee, which irks me to no end.

I hope by this point that you have found enough info to figure who to vote for.  I have, am ready for it to be over, and I think it best that this be my swan song RE this political election.  I will try at least.  Thanks for you informative opinions.  If you so desire then I hope you find enough wrong to vote for hrc.  Good Luck, I know you will not find enough right.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/23/2016 2:27:23 PM

You are very forgiving of Donald Trump and it sounds like you are confident that he won't follow through on any of his extreme statements made during his campaign.  I'm not sure how you can put so much stock in a single statement that he would deal with illegal immigration "humanely" after he made dozens & dozens of threats to the contrary.  

I'd take the bulk of his rhetoric to represent his intentions, not just one single mention of a vague promise to do so "humanely".  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/23/2016 7:00:26 PM

Have to love it.  Here is Architect still going on about Hitler's rise to power in Germany and Rude Evin slaps him upside the head with facts and he still doesn't get it. 

Then there is Copperline with his intellectual "holier than thou" approach that there must be something wrong with someone that can't see his righteous view.  I haven't seen that kind of superior attitude since I left the Washigton area. 

Both love to engage in fear mongering, but aren't having much success here.  IN another post, Copperline makes the case for legalizing marijuana and how it is no worse than alcohol.   Meanwhile the only good coming out of the legalization of Marijuana is that a bunch of people are getting rich, while the pot smokers mellow out and don't accomplish anything. 

And Hillary is going to give a free college education to young people, who may or may not be able to actually make it through college, and guess who is going to pay for it?  Ha, ha  YOU will pay for it! Surprise! 

Dog, I really can't wait for this election to be over.  Between my ultraliberal friends on FB and then the liberals here,  it makes me laugh and want to throw up at the same time.  I'm really worried about the Hillary supporters, they are smoking pot and envisioning a socialist Utopia.  Free health care, free education, continuing the myth how everything should be handed to those who don't want to work for it.   And all the while the rest of us will pay and pay, while Hilary and Bill continue to buy more houses for their "compound". 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/23/2016 8:45:59 PM

I'll say.  Didn't think I would ever see Hound and Lifer/LTL/Lifetimelaker being civil to each other, much less agreeing!!  Copper is a zealot for his cause. Archie acts a spoiled kid who can't get attention so he just keeps yelling louder and louder, getting more frustrated with each successive dis by the adults on the forum, resorting to name calling and insults when someone points out he is posting nothing more than his opinion.  I'm sure he will answer this with more of the same, but it is what it is and reasonable forum posters will recognize it.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/24/2016 6:26:52 AM

"I haven't seen that kind of superior attitude since I left Washington."

I'm sure that is true for you but not for us because you brought that attitude here with you.  Fortunately for us it seems to have really changed lately.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/24/2016 11:12:03 AM

You know Lifer, I think you have misjudged me all these years.  I was never trying to act superior about my knowledge of Washington, but to try to use my experience to explain things from my perspective.  It's a weird place and I spent a lot of my time disliking it.  I'm not a dog eat dog kind of person and I think back stabbing is a coward's tactic.  I realized that most of our elected official and their staffers have their heads up their butts, because they are so insulated from the real world. They expect their butts to be kissed.  Most of the time, things are proposed and defeated over what we called "rice bowl" issues, rather than what made the most sense.  I really did go to work for the government to support our military  and to try to do good. 

I don't know if you realize that I took an early retirement to get away from it - I was tired of having a boss that was not concerned about our people and concerned only with face time with the very seniors and social climbing with the Brits and Aussies.  I was totally disgusted about Iraq and when Doug Feith put Mike Maloof in charge of his private intell group (that would spin the intel to say what he wantd it to say).  I used to work with Mike Maloof and he was a nut case.  And then I got into an argument with a woman in the NSC staff, becasue she was more interested in letting industry sell thermal night vision everywhere, than protecting our troops.  I was just tired of the B.S.  I've been away from it for 10 years now, and it probably disgusts me more now than it did when I worked there, because I can imagine the behind the scenes manuvering.  And believe me, if the "old man" (whether that be the President, the SecState, or the SecDef), no one will ever question it, even if it is the stupidest and most fraught with pitfalls plan ever.   It's not always the government employees that are screwing up, but their political appointees that cause them to do stupid things. 

However,  agree with everyone that the VA is the worst and needs to be disassembled and re-assembled into something that works. I don't know about the other Cabinet Departments, like Engery, Labor, EPA, etc. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/24/2016 8:31:39 PM

I have a friend who was Feith's PR person (as an Air Force O-6) and she had nothing good to say about him.  I can only imagine what the rest of the crew was like.

Lifer, she ain't BSing you.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	What's going on here?
Date:	9/24/2016 9:43:45 PM

Gen Tommy Franks said that Feith was the stupidest SOB he every met.  Feith's deputy, Ryan Henry, was an a$$ too.  Wolfowitz and Rumsfelt weren't much better. Thankfully, our office did not get too many of his snowflakes, but other offices spent most of their time answering his snowflakes, rather than doing productive work.  I have to say that I admired Gordon England when he was the Dep Sec Def.  One of the very  few people that seemed like he was interested in getting the job done, and he had a lot of common sense. 

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	Opinions on this Hypothetical Scenario?
Date:	10/5/2016 1:21:49 PM

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/10/05/report-syrian-christians-cry-jesus-isis-mass-beheading/