Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	MM Your thoughts??
Date:	3/11/2016 6:56:04 PM

Other than what I read, I have no expertise to  either defend or deny climate change. As our resident climate change guru, what are your thoughts on this article. This NOT intended as a loaded or trick question.

weather and climate change

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	MM Your thoughts??
Date:	3/11/2016 9:29:54 PM

This is pretty straight forward.  Global climates have always changed and will always change.  And the overall global climate obviously affects the weather we observe every day.  Where the science is uncertain is whether the climate changes we have seen since the industrial revolution are a result of natural processes, anthropogenic in origin or some combination of the two.  I suspect the latter but the data seems to suggest that man's influence is minor.  Otherwise given the spewing of CO2 over the last two decades we would have seen a significant increase in temperatures as predicted by the models when that in fact has not happened.

But it is interesting to me that of all the extreme weather events, the ones that have changed have been attributed to climate change, which has not happened over the last 18 years, while others are ignored because they are actually lower in both frequency and magnitude.  If you want to attribute "extreme' weather, whatever that means, to climate change you have to be able to explain why some weather events are extreme and others are not.  Correlation is not causation and our global climate system is incredibly complex and poorly understood.   So unless and until they can explain why we have some forms of extreme weather and not others, especially since there has been no appreciable warming for the last 18 years, this seems to me to be tenuous at best.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	MM Your thoughts??
Date:	3/12/2016 8:03:12 AM (updated 3/12/2016 8:06:51 AM)

Humm...if the causation of extreme but short weather events cannot be attributed to any appreciable temperature change in the last 18 years, wonder if any of them might bear any relationship the "appreciable" change in temperatures over the...shall we say last 17 years or perhaps the last 37 years?  Of course, I have no idea how to give attribution to the extreme events which didn't occur over the last 18, or 17, or 37, or 58 years...perhaps MM is able to devine what didn't happen and why, but to do so is way above my terrestrial pay grade.

Just more big words and balderdash spoon fed the gullible from MM.

GF, thanks for the link.  Makes lots of sense to me.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Archie is at least consistent
Date:	3/12/2016 8:18:25 AM

He asked my opinion and I gave it using facts, logic and reason.  You drive by with insults.  Mind numbed libtard do that as they have nothing of intelligence to add to any conversation.  Still trying to figure out how starting with $140,000 and ending with $140,000 makes you richer Archie?  I know, the average over those years makes you a wealthy man, right?  You are a silly little mean spirited and wretched man......get help before it consumes you.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	MM is at least consistent too
Date:	3/12/2016 9:30:21 AM (updated 3/12/2016 9:36:03 AM)

Can't grasp simple 4th grade math,  remains to have a completely closed mind,  refuses to even consider that he may on occasion be incorrect and has such a lovely and gentle and kind disposition toward all, especially those who raise questions about his closed mind. 

BTW: Why are my questions based on facts, logic and reason so unworthy of any consideration while yours are as if gospel?  Face it MM, you are the one who is "wretched"!  Being "mean spirited" to anyone who questions your narrow minded conclusions is a bonus!!

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	MM Your thoughts??
Date:	3/12/2016 1:04:32 PM

You know, GF provided a link to an article and asked for MM's comment and opinion.  MM provided same, and from my observation in the vein that was intended.  Civil discourse at its best.  Your attack on MM reminds me of a petulant child who will search out any was possible to get back at an antagonist.  You need to double up on your chill pills, or if currently you don't take any maybe you need to look into getting some. I really don't understand your obsession with MM.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Do you notice you repeat what I write?
Date:	3/12/2016 2:04:53 PM

You can't even be original in your comments.   I'm pretty comfortable with my analysis and it's no surprise you can't comprehend it.  Have a nice dat Archie.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/12/2016 2:06:39 PM

i really worry about Archie.  He may need professional help.  His obsession with me is abnormal and deeply warped.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/12/2016 2:52:48 PM

As far as Archie is concerned MM is an abhorrent member of the human race and it insults Archie  that anyone like MM can even exist, much less prosper in Archie world. It is beginning to border on pathological isn't it?  I like how he refers to the rest of us as MM's puppets. 

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/12/2016 5:48:49 PM

Doea anyone take Archie for real or is he playing a game?

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/12/2016 6:41:32 PM (updated 3/12/2016 6:42:58 PM)

I am not ready to say it is a mental illness, but the anger in his posts at times can be very disturbing.  Maybe it is a release of tensions somewhere else in his life or something else.  I don't know him and am thus not qualified to comment or judge.  All I have to go on are his posts here, and as I said, his posts remind me of the behavior of a petulant child who can't get others to agree with his or her opinion.  It doesn't matter that you might come across to him as a arrogant or condescending.  What matters is the logic and truth of what you say...in other words, what, not who.

i had him on Iggy but was missing too many of the posts I wanted to read, so took off the Iggy.  Now I am again experiencing what prompted the Iggy....

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/12/2016 7:22:53 PM

I personally think it is just a game he plays for his own amusement.  He enjoys the confrontation and loves getting a rise out of MM.  I don't know why.  Maybe it's his hobby.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/12/2016 8:04:30 PM

I would believe that of Goofy Fella, but Archie puts too much vitriol into his posts to fit that mold.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/12/2016 9:18:21 PM

I don't see viterol so much, as I see him enjoying  the name-calling and fighting. Maybe it gives him a thrill to post something that will get a rise out of a few people.  That what you get when you have a forum that uses aliases.  It gives people a chance to create a persona, be outrageous and name call when they feel like it.  If people had to use their real names, I think you'd see a much more civil discourse.  But I don't think it is mental illness, because if it is, mental illness is endemic to this forum.  There is always the option to ignore his posts (as I often do, as well as some others). 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/12/2016 9:30:21 PM

While I disagree with a lot of Copperline's positions I have a lot of respect for him and his posts.  We have communicated a little bit off-forum and I know where he is coming from.  Too bad that GoneFishing can't muster the courage to participate in a similar off-forum dialogue.  But he refuses to identify himself, yet engages in data mining about me because in good faith I revealed my identity to him.  The worst kind of cowardice in my book.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/13/2016 9:15:12 AM

I just think Archie is a sad, frustrated individual that has watched his entire belief system crash down around him over the last 7 years.  His anger and vitriole is somewhat disturbing which is why I mentioned mental illness. Anyone that could be so angry on a forum like this needs some help.

I too had him on ignore for a while and Goofy talked me into engaging with him again.  I may have to go into Archie ignore mode again for his sake.  Sort of an act of kindness toward his mental health and to allow him to wallow in the many failures and falsehoods of liberalism without being reminded of the truth.  Ignorance can be bliss I suppose.  For me, total ignorance would be the only way to reconcile liberalism with reality.....

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Mr. H
Date:	3/13/2016 11:33:38 AM

Do you ever see any "vitriol" spewed by MM toward any other posters?  Is it OK or less offensive from him but always unacceptable from me.  MM has been more offensive than anybody on this forum to those who question his posts and has said more vile things about me than any good Christian should.  He denys the worst was said...it WAS and when I have half a rainy weekend day to go back and review his posts in 2009 I will prove it...unless of course he is dishonest enought to run and find it first himself and somehow delete it. 

Hound is right, I have said before I do love to jerk his chain from time to time because it needs to be jerked just to expose his holier-than-thou attitude that is completely unable to even consider other possibilities, much less admit sometime the other possibilities may be correct (see above back and forth about whether or not the earth has warmed over the last 17 vs 18 years)!  And yeah, it make me feel good whether others likes my comments or not.  Please understand and grant me that pleasure.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	It's a mental illness
Date:	3/13/2016 12:45:33 PM

I agree that Copperline is in a much different category.  He does't live too far down the lake from me, in fact, I can see his house from my dock.  I find his posts well thought out and he supports his logic.  He is far more liberal than I am, but I believe he is very sincere. 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Mr. H
Date:	3/13/2016 8:42:28 PM (updated 3/13/2016 8:45:03 PM)

MM is not the gentlest in some of his replies, but they usually are about the subject under discussion.  Frankly I wish both of you would crank it back about three notches.  He doesn't need to impugne your intelligence any more than you mockingly name him his highness or whatever it is you say.  

With regard to to the climate, there is no doubt that we are adding CO2 to the atmosphere but I am not convinced there is a direct causal relationship when it comes to climate change.  The fact that the "scientists" rapidly retreated from global warming to climate change when the numbers didn't support global warming said volumes.  There are SO MANY variables at play that anyone who states with certainty that we are responsible for climate change, in my opinion, has an agenda that has nothing to do with whether the temperature is rising or falling on whatever time period you want to examine.

That you can't get MM to agree with your interpretation of available data is no reason to foam at the mouth as seems to be the case with your posts.  At the same time MM's beliefs regarding abortion don't give him any right to accuse others of untoward acts.  In my opinion an absolute ban on abortion is not what God intended, but I also believe He does not condone the extent and reasons for abortion prevalent today.

So to you and MM, please respect each others' opinions and engage in civil discourse.  If you agree to disagree, so be it.  Leave it and go on.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Mr. H
Date:	3/15/2016 11:14:53 PM

You make some excellent points Mr. H but I must take gentle issue with your characturization of my "foaming at the mouth when I can't get MM to agree with my interpretation of the data".  Does the same not apply the other way around...isn't he also "interpreting" the data while stating it as fact and becoming a bit unpleasant when he is challanged. In the most recent discussion I"interpreted" the data in a way to try and demonstrate that his presentation as fact was also no more than his "interpretation" of the same data.

Sorry to come off as a horse's behind when dealing with MM, but he is the kind of horse's behind who makes it easy for other people to display similar traits!