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Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Socialism Saves Rush
Date:	1/4/2010 11:12:56 AM

According to Rush Limbaugh, the health care reform that may be passed by Congress is socialism. Yet, it bears a striking resemblance to the universal healthcare system that just treated him in Hawaii that prompted his remark: "there is nothing wrong with the American health care system. I received no special treatment."

Yes, Rush. That's the point! American medicine is superb--for those who can get it. And, in Hawaii, no one gets special treatment, because everyone can get it.

By accepting socialist medical treatment in Hawaii, therefore, Rush Limbaugh has shown that, when one is ill, what matters is the availability of quality health care, even if it is socialist.

Hawaii has had nearly-universal employer-mandated health insurance since 1974. and health care premiums in Hawaii, for comprehensive care with small co-pays and deductibles, are nearly the lowest and their costs per medicare beneficiary are the lowest in the nation.

Why? There are a variety of reasons, most traceable to universality. With everyone covered by primary care, emergency room visits tend to be for real emergencies, not the non-emergent care mainland ERs dispense for people without coverage. That reduces the costs of ERs and the costs of non-emergent medicine since patients can be handled less expensively and more effectively by their primary docs. Hospitals have not overbuilt, acquiring expensive machines to compete with their neighbors for patients. Insurance companies have instituted screening and other measures to improve wellness among their covered populations.

We can all be pleased that Rush appears to have survived his encounter with socialist medical care. He seems to be very happy himself, commenting on the results of a socialist angiogram that showed no disease in the arteries that feed his heart muscle.

Now, of course, Rush does not live in Hawaii and so his costs are not covered by the Hawaiian insurance system, but having that "socialist" system for more than 3 decades has not reduced the quality of the care he received. Who would have thunk it!

If Hawaii-style medical care is good enough for Rush Limbaugh, it should be good enough for all Wing nuts.

This was taken from Hunnington Press.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Socialism Saves Rush
Date:	1/4/2010 12:24:34 PM

Will the hospital send Rush a bill or will his treatment be free?

Name:	Jim Dandy -	Reply
Subject:	Socialism Saves Rush
Date:	1/4/2010 1:48:44 PM

I wonder how many illegal aliens are clogging the ERs at Hawaii hospitals?

Name:	HARRY -	Reply
Subject:	Totally different population
Date:	1/4/2010 2:16:34 PM

Name:	Council Roc Doc -	Reply
Subject:	Socialism Saves Rush
Date:	1/4/2010 2:38:25 PM

GF, what you fail to grasp is availablity of quality healthcare and the providing of quality healthcare by our best and brightest minds are not synonymous. What you on the left will ultimately find out is that the quality of applicants to med/dent/osteopathy/ schools WILL diminish over time as intellignet individuals avoid an occupation whereby you are told what you can charge and earn. It is happening already. So as you cry out for universal healthcare for all, keep in mind that those providing your newfound universal care would not have even been considered for a spot in a freshman class ten years ago. Then again, you can always recruit from schools overseas, whereby accreditation standards are difficult to assess. You can't have your cake and eat it too........

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	FACTS for GF
Date:	1/4/2010 4:03:59 PM

Once again sorry to interupt your daily BDS/PDS with some facts, but HI has been dismantling the 'socialized medicine' AKA universal health care for months now. The new universal program for kids (Keiki Care) was dropped after only seven months.

Follow the link and read for yourself. I dare you. Then come back and tell us all how GREAT it's gonna be.

Here is one short passage cut and pasted:

A Critique of the Hawaii Health Care System
by Hellreich, Phillip D., Dr.
Heritage Lecture #496

August 4, 1994

… In conclusion, Hawaii has had most of the components of the Clinton health care proposals in effect since the enactment of its Prepaid Health Care Act in 1974.

It has failed in its two major goals of 1) decreasing the number of Hawaii’s population that were uninsured and 2) curtailing the ever-rising costs of health care delivery.

In order to control spiraling health care costs, it has just instituted its Health Quest Program, which will severely ration care and deprive most of the citizens of our state of their right to be treated by the physician of their choice. In light of this information, the American people and members of Congress should think long and hard before enacting a health care proposal which shares so many features of Hawaii’s Prepaid Health Care Act

URL: Remember Hawaii’s Health Care Lessons

Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	FACTS for GF
Date:	1/4/2010 7:13:37 PM

There is a difference between the pure concept of universal health care and the pure concept of socialized medicine. What the new heath care bill will give us is about 40% socialized medicine.
-What's the difference? Universal-payer, one-payer, medicare-for-all heath care systems equal government-paid health care ....but ....not government-run health care (socialized medicine).
-Medicare if left pure is "on the road" to socialized medicine because it not only provides payment for care for all, but it sets up rules for what the government is willing to pay doctors and in some cases what procedures are allowed and how many. For the rest of the care we (most medicare recipients) get, most of us pay private insurers who then pay doctors, medical hardware developers etc what they want to stay in buisness.
-In socialized medicine,the government not only pays the bills but also "runs/manages" the medical care business. Under socialized medicine the government will decide how much doctors get paid; it decides who gets into medical schools, it decides where doictrs will work, it decides which research will be conducted, it decides which geographical area you can get medical care from, etc., etc., etc.,
-The new proposed bill goes a long way down the road to the final stage of socialiozed medicine. The core concept contained in the new bill is the concept of "Comparative Efficiencies (CE)." Basically, CE asks the question and makes the decision as to whether is it better to give a new hip to a guy in his forties or a woman in her eighties. And that decision has to be made because in another area of the government, a bureaucrat is making a decision as to whether it better to spend a billion dollars on new hip and knee replacement parts, facilities, and doctors,... or is it better to use that billion for HIV research. It is clear for a thinking person to realize that the concept of comparative efficiencies quickly leads to rationing. This CE-to-Rationing slide has hasppended in every example of a country that has run a socialized medicine system, ---and it will happen to us.
-Socialized medicine is great for making sure everyone gets cold medicine, broken bones mended, and grief counseling. It is not good for advancing medical science.
-As mentioned before, the ravages of socialism in many parts of an economy take about two generations (40 years) to appear. Usually, that's how long it takes the momentum of innovation and initiative of previous systems to dissipate. So we won't likely feel the impact of socialized medicine, but our kids and grandkids surely will.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	FACTS for GF
Date:	1/4/2010 7:36:52 PM

EXCELLENT discussion, Yankee06! You make a statement... and then you fill in the reationale and history.

I applaud!

Name:	cobra -	Reply
Subject:	FACTS for GF
Date:	1/4/2010 9:16:22 PM

I was in the military during the 60's and from what I could see it was socialized medicine back then. It should work in the civilian world. All I remember about using the hospital while in the military was I was stuck in a large ward with many many other patient's. I survived and am still here today but I can say the treatments I got back then was second rate. I guess money talks. If you want better medical today then you have to pay. cobra

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Rush pays cash
Date:	1/4/2010 11:22:21 PM

for his medical treatment so it is not socialism that saved him. In fact he didn't need any treatment, just a bunch of tests. However, had he needed a stent or bypass surgery and had to rely on socialized medicine in a country with such he would have had to wait 6 months or more. Because he is wealthy he would simply fly to the U.S. to be treated right away. Alternatively he could run for Congress so he can have access to their health care system, something not available to us mere mortals.....funny how they exempt themselves from the very system they want to foist on us.....actually, its not very funny.

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