Name:	LonghornBoater -	Reply
Subject:	Food for thought
Date:	1/25/2018 5:24:43 PM

Below is a link to a piece written by Cameron Smith for the al.com website.  This is a subject I struggle mightily with and his thoughts seem worth consideration.

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2018/01/our_understanding_of_abortion.html#incart_river_index

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Food for thought
Date:	1/25/2018 6:14:18 PM

I am pro-choice.  But the article does address the issue fairly from both sides.  I don't necessarily agree that the Constitution's reference to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness extends to the unborn.  I sincerely doubt the Founding Fathers were thinking of abortion, when at their time, people had many children and just hoped that some would make it to adulthood.  

You know, women have always had abortions - they didn't start back in the 60s, when the legislation was passed.  And there is no reason to think that outlawing abortion will stop it.  What it will do, is force women back into alleys and backrooms, having procedures that put her at a great health risk.  Although people are "pro-life" they seem only to be concerned with the baby and not the mother.  And unfortunately, they don''t really care what happens to the child once they are born.  It would be lovely to think that every baby born would go to a loving home, either biological or adoptive, but that really isn't the case.  Unwanted children are often abused, both physically and emotionally.  Having said that, unless the child's health or the women's health is at risk, I don't believe in abortion after 12 weeks and that answers the "viable fetus" question.  Up until 12 weeks, the fetus can be removed using a lesser procedure (D&C) After that, you ae lookig at patial birth abortion.  

But I liked reading your article and it is one of the better articles out there.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Food for thought
Date:	1/25/2018 6:17:31 PM

Interesting article.  For me it is very simple.  I belief life begins at conception, mostly because no one has been able to provide a convincing argument that it begins at some other arbitrary point......one that seems to be a moving target with the advances in medicine.  Once you agree that life begins at conception then a fetus (which is Latin for "little one"....i.e., a little baby) deserves protection and it is no longer the liberty of just the mother at stake, it is also the liberty of the child.  If someone has convinced themselves that life begins at some other arbitrary point in time, then they may be OK with abortion and it is not really something you can argue with them about because of the fundamental difference in view points.

For sure we need to have empathy for women that have made this choice over either raising the child or giving it up for adoption.  There is no need for post-adoption counseling but there is a great need for post-abortion counseling because we are all infused with the basic understanding of natural law and that there are well docuemnted psychological consequences as a result of making this decision.  That goes beyond any one religious belief but really goes to the heart of the matter of what is our humanity.  Our Knights of Columbus council supports ultrasound machines and technicians at pregnancy aid clinics and so many women, when they see that the fetus is in fact just a little baby in the earlier stage of development, they quite often go through with the pregnancy. 

I think even if abortion remains legal I am optimistic that over time a vast majority of Americans will recognize it as an intrinsically evil act and it will fade away into obscurity and disuse.  And Planned Parenthood will revert to its original purpose, the elimination of undesirable races as they will be relegated to areas with economically disadvantaged black and hispanic women.  But even on that front I am optimistic that it will be rejected by these women as well as they will recognize it for the eugenics it is.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Food for thought
Date:	1/25/2018 7:24:03 PM (updated 1/25/2018 7:49:52 PM)

I have to disagree with one point MM. Post adoption can be traumatic as well and in many cases leads to psychological issues. I can provide cogent arguments for this point, however it is too involved to type here. I will gladly discuss the issue in person any time you wish. A lot of research has been done on the topic. There is also a growing industry of folks that are devoted to reuniting parents with offspring they gave up. In many cases adoption is a very rewarding experience, but some end with tragic consequences. True that many that suffer ill effects already suffered from underlying psych issues, but to say adoption doesn't require aftercare is just not accurate.

I am not being argumentative here, just pointing out what I consider, and facts back it up, to be in accurate. I think when you consider your statement and my response you will most likely agree with me. If not, no harm, no foul. We will just agree to disagree.

I want to update with one fact that I am almost certain, you nor any other forum member is aware of. There is a known phenomenon with with parents and adoptees that meet as adults. It is more common thane what is easy to wrap your mind around but a fact non the less. In some instances there is an irresistible sexual attraction between them when they meet as adults, and in many cases is acted upon. It more common between mother/son than father/daughter. I can't cite the source because I read the paper back in the 90's.i am sure there is more recent research than that on the subject. I read it after the subject came up in conversation with a group of freinds/colleagues. One of the ladies present was advocate/Activist in the adoption community. I haven't thought about it in years but now am curious again. With the cottage industry of reuniting more adoptees with their biological parents I am sure it must be even more prevalent now. Of course this leads to a whole new set of psychological effects on both, especially when it is acted upon.

Still think there are no psychological affects of adoption?

Name:	Rich -	Reply
Subject:	Food for thought
Date:	1/26/2018 6:22:48 AM

I agree with MM in that life begins with conception. I also agree with Hound that any change in law will not end abortion. That being said being a conservative with a strong libitarian bend I believe in indivdual rights. I have struggled with this subject my whole life, while not agreeing with abortion I also don't believe in anyone except the women on what she does before birth. It's a personal decision that she will have to reconcile herslf. I deffinatly do not think the government should be involved in anyway and I don't think my tax dollars should be used for abortions.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Food for thought
Date:	1/27/2018 7:56:06 PM

And that is the thing  - why should tax dollars be used?  I see no reason why the government should be involved, nor should they pay for it.  The same with birth control.  It's a personal thing, and because it is, payment should be personal.