Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/19/2017 10:49:15 AM

Very interesting statement from the General commanding the entirety of US nuclear forces:

"By ROB GILLIES Associated Press HALIFAX, Nova Scotia (AP) - The top officer at U.S. Strategic Command said Saturday an order from President Donald Trump or any of his successors to launch nuclear weapons can be refused if that order is determined to be illegal. Air Force Gen. John Hyten, commander of Strategic Command, told a panel at the Halifax International Security Forum on Saturday that he and Trump have had conversations about such a scenario and that he would tell Trump he couldn't carry out an illegal strike. "If it's illegal, guess what's going to happen. I'm going to say, 'Mr President, that's illegal.' And guess what he's going to do? He's going to say, 'What would be legal?'" Hyten said. "And we'll come up with options with a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is, and that's the way it works."

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/19/2017 10:55:23 AM

Very interesting indeed.  I pray he is willing to follow through if the need arises.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/19/2017 1:38:54 PM

This follows the notion that Trump would initiate a First Stike order.  Since only the President has the authority to order a nuclear strike, I'm not sure how it could be an illegal order - we entrust our President with this responsibility.  In my mind, this General is only trying to further the notion that Trump is somehow irresponsible and would casually order a First Strike.  Personally, I think he should be relieved from his position, just like McCrystal was when he spoke to the press about Obama.  These Generals need to remember that they serve at the pleasure of the President, and can be removed from their jobs.  Last I heard, the President is still the Commander in Chief.

I'm frankly surprised that so many people think that Trump would just abitralily order a nuclear attack, yes, even on NK.  First of all, he grew up in the Cold War like the rest of us and with the concept of assured mutual destruction.  Secondly, since he has been in office, he has not made any military moves that didn't involve the Pentagon.  Yes, he talks tough, because NK has threatened the U.S. with a nuclear attack.  Really, what would you have him say?  "oh please, don't do that"?  Or ignore it like Obama did?  You see where that got us.  

Right now, NK is frantically working on a nuclear submarine.  So when they pull up to our shores and launch or threaten to launch a nuke, I guess this General would like a War College debate on the legality of the President's authority to order an attack?  Or maybe have Congress take up a vote? Our military does not operate like that.  If the General is not prepared to carry out the orders of the Commander in Chief, then he is in the wrong job.  

Name:	Moldyoldy -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/19/2017 3:16:13 PM

The media are trying to make this look like an anti trump statement on the part of the general. Imo the general was jus t being a bit clumsy in his statement. Any commissioned officer has a sworn duty to refuse to carry out an unlawful order. That's the way it has always been, with any president. I think that's what the general intended to communicate.

Name:	Rich -	Reply
Subject:	Hound has it right.
Date:	11/19/2017 3:49:03 PM

He should be relived of his commision.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/19/2017 8:01:00 PM

Here is a little more context to his remarks - a more full representation. If Trump finds his words troubling he will fire him. 

"Air Force General John Hyten, commander of the U.S. Strategic Command (STRATCOM), told an audience at the Halifax International Security Forum in Nova Scotia, Canada that he had thought a lot about what to say if he received such an order. “I think some people think we’re stupid,” Hyten said in response to a question about such a scenario, reports Reuters. “We’re not stupid people. We think about these things a lot. When you have this responsibility, how do you not think about it?” Hyten, who is responsible for overseeing the U.S. nuclear arsenal, detailed the process that would follow such a command. As head of STRATCOM “I provide advice to the president, he will tell me what to do,” he said in his remarks, which were retransmitted in a video posted on the forum’s Facebook page. “And if it’s illegal, guess what’s going to happen? I‘m going to say, ‘Mr. President, that’s illegal.’ And guess what he’s going to do? He’s going to say, ‘What would be legal?’ And we’ll come up with options, of a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is, and that’s the way it works. It’s not that complicated.” Hyten said running through scenarios of how to react in the event of an illegal order was standard practice, and added: “If you execute an unlawful order, you will go to jail. You could go to jail for the rest of your life.” The Pentagon did not immediately respond to a Reuters request for comment on Hyten’s remarks. The general’s comments came after U.S. lawmakers, including some Republicans, expressing concern about Trump’s authority to wage war using nuclear weapons. Trump has traded insults with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un and threatened in his maiden United Nations address to “totally destroy” the country of 26 million people if it threatened America. Some senators want legislation to alter the nuclear authority of the U.S. president and a Senate committee on Tuesday held the first congressional hearing in more than four decades on the president’s authority to launch a nuclear strike.  "

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/20/2017 2:04:42 PM

I realize that.  But is carrying out a first strike order by the Commander in Chief, an illegal order?  In the way that the General put it, it makes him the arbitor of what is and is not a legal order.  There is no point of law on this that I am aware.  it's one thing on the battlefield, it's another when it is a direct order from the President of the United States, who hold sole authority to launch.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/20/2017 2:18:05 PM

As I understand it, it is unlikely that such a change will be made.  So it's just more wasted time by the Senate.  

I would submit that the threats that have been made by NK to U.S. National Security could be used as justification to launch a First Stike, but Trump hasn't done that, because of the uncertainties that they actually have that capabillty.  But if they do strike, I expect the U.S. will respond.  it should be noted that NK has also threatened Europe.  And if they are able to build the nuclear sub that they  are rushing to do, which would in fact, give them the ability to strike the U.S. or Europe.  I personally think Trump has been very restrained.  Tough Talk, yes, but he is hardly the first President to talk tough.  I wonder sometimes if we have gotten so used to mealy mouth politicians, that it is shocking when someone talks tough.  

As far as the General, I can appreciate what he says about advising the Commander that an order is illegal and then talking about a range of options that would be legal.  But hopefully this isn't happening as there are incoming nuclear missiles.  I don't know if Tump has picked up the General's remarks yet, because today he seems to be consumed about disrespectful athletes.  

I'm really rather annoyed that he hasn't taken a stand on Moore.  He is side-stepping it.  

Name:	Moldyoldy -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/20/2017 2:26:38 PM

I agree with you t. I just think the general was thinking about policy in general, but then responding to a specific question.

Name:	Moldyoldy -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/20/2017 2:37:32 PM

I agree with you t. I just think the general was thinking about policy in general, but then responding to a specific question.

Name:	Moldyoldy -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/20/2017 2:40:48 PM

I think trump is doing the responsible thing by staying out of it. All we have at this point are accusations against moore. The irresponsible ones are those who have condemned him with no investigation.  Anyone can make an accusation and ruin an election. The democommies are expert at it.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/20/2017 7:06:18 PM

Trump more or less said that he isn't going to comment, but that if he did support Moore, he'd be out there campaigning for him.  

I wish Trump would let up with the athletes, he's made his point and move on to more important topics.  He has declared that NK is a terrorist support country so apparently that will help with the sanctions.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/20/2017 7:18:42 PM

As the story unfolds, apparently there are potential uses of nukes that are illegal. As a far out example, a preemptive massive nuclear strike on Lichstenstein, in the absence of any semblance of a threat from that country would be illegal. In a case like that the general would be allowed to, in fact expected to challenge that order. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Military Bilndly Obey Order To Use Nukes?
Date:	11/20/2017 10:21:25 PM

Yes, I could see that.  Unprovoked attack.